From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #350 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 19 July 2000 Vol 07 : Num 350 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Statement from Pendekar Paul de Thouars eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #346 eskrima: Re: Silat statement from Paul de Thouars eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #348 eskrima: Virus Hoax eskrima: Mime-Version: 1.0 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #349 eskrima: Teaching of the FMA in the Philippines eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, the Martial Arts Resource, Inayan Eskrima Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a plain text e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Ellner Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:04:50 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Statement from Pendekar Paul de Thouars MikHam writeS: > Came across this today...WOW!!! > To whom it may concern I have the highest respect for all of the de Thouars family. I would also have to say that this is, in the end, a family matter. No prudent person gets involved in someone else's family business. Todd ------------------------------ From: "Steve Yarnall (ATT)" Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 20:46:48 -0400 Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #346 Re: Nate Defensor and Maha Title While I will not profess to be an aficionado on the subject I must reiterate Mr. Cushing's statements. I have been a student and friend of Nate for several years and have found only a man dedicated to promoting the Martial Arts through his sharing and teaching. We all seem to get wrapped up in titles and forget that it is the person, not the title that makes the Martial Artist. That's my two cents worth. Steve Yarnall Frederick, MD - ------------------------------ From: "Victor Cushing" Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 19:09:37 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Nate Defensor and Maha Ttitle I have been lurking and reading on this issue. With a world full of fakes and self promoting titleholders who don't deserve respect, it saddens me to see any fuss raised over the use of a title by a man whom I have counted as a friend for over 20 years. Nate Defensor is a talented humble man who has never tried to enrich himself but only sought to lend, give, show, his system to others. For those who wish to attack frauds, you have missed your target by aiming at Nate. I fear that your world is now infested with blind snipers who shoot off their mouths without thinking and blaze away without taking the time to examine whether their self righteous advice applies or not. If Nate or Dale Hinton need any help (which frankly I doubt they will), I stand ready. Vic Cushing ------------------------------ From: Mike Casto Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 21:06:04 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Silat statement from Paul de Thouars More political crap. It's bad enough to see this garbage out on RMA. To see it here is just too much. Brothers fight ... it's part of life. It's sad that Paul (and his students) feel the need to slander Victor (and previously Willem) at all ... much less in public. If you really want to know about Pak Victor or Uncle Bill, attend a seminar and see what they have. Judge for yourself. Anyone can write anything they want but the simple fact of the matter is that both Victor and Willem are accomplished martial artists. I don't know the truth (though I have my opinions) any more than any one else (outside of the brothers themselves). If you don't know the truth yourself then posting on a public forum is nothing more than spreading a rumor and stirring up emotions to no avail. Sorry to jump on this. You seem like a decent guy, Mike (MikHam777) ... and that's part of the reason I'm restraining myself (my internal response to this letter is much more vehemnt). Selamat all, Mike - -- Do not condemn the judgment of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong. -- Dandemis ------------------------------ From: Joshua Hutchinson Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 18:13:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #348 Greetings! Tuhon, I just wanted to say that I liked the water analogy you posted in V7, #348. That's all! Mabuhay ang eskrima!!! Fry Bread _______________________________________________________ Say Bye to Slow Internet! http://www.home.com/xinbox/signup.html ------------------------------ From: "BILL MCGRATH" Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 23:51:12 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Virus Hoax Hi Guys, Seems like I fell for one of the virus hoaxes going around. My apologies if I caused anyone any unnecessary concern. I received the warning from a someone who I thought knew more about computers than I do (but that includes the majority of the planet) and took the warning at face value. Since it was called the "Kali" virus I thought the group should know about it. "My bad" Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath Computer white belt ------------------------------ From: Luis Pellicer Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:46:23 +0800 Subject: eskrima: Mime-Version: 1.0 >"Kali" (from Guro Dan Inosanto), is that it is a combination of two >older words: "Kamut" (which >meant hand or body ... I can't remember which) and "Lihuk" (which meant >motion) so the combination >"Kali" meant "motion of the [hand or body]." > "Lihuk" does mean motion in Bisaya, but "kamut" means "scratch". (Kinamutan means "to scratch") Maybe the word he was "Kamay" which means "hand", or "Katawan" which means "body". I think he was REALLY stretching the origin of the word. For that matter we could use "Kalis" (type of blade), Kamatayan (death) and "liwanag" (light) or "likas" (nature). I could go on and on regarding words which could pertain to the topic, that start with K-A and L-I and would be making them ALL up. Aside from the words "Escrima" and "Arnis" used to denote the Art, anything else is conjecture and not historically valid, unfortunately. LPIII ------------------------------ From: Thegame0071@aol.com Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 01:37:03 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #349 In a message dated 7/18/00 2:01:41 PM Pacific Daylight Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes:>>student progresses. I was recently approached by a group of three boys all in the age range of 17 to 19 yrs old. I had shown the 19 yr old a little, nothing major, just surrounded off of him trying to hit me at 75% and I defending my self and just letting him know I was there. I wasn't interested in inviting them th the training discussion group because of what I though he had a lack of interest on his part. As of recently, he has been constantly asking me to teach him, and I haven't, partly due to what I am considering a "young" attitude that I'm not quite comfortable with having this type of knowledge. On the same note though, I also feel that most people(or hope that most people) with "bad" hearts will not have the preserverence to stick with the training. These kids don't have bad hearts though, they are just going through that ackward stage in life, still trying to find out themselves. All though I have to remember that I was once there in High School, too. Anyway, on Sunday, they asked me again, so I said, that if they want to learn to fight, they can use my gear and camera, and have a go at it. They went at it Sunday evening, Monday afternoon, and Sunday evening again. I was shocked to find these guys walking in the house bruised and lumped up, asking me if I could fix some of them up. Before I knew it, I found myself almost telling them that they don't have to do Full Contact, but I caught myself. No matter how many people tell me that I shouldn't do it, I won't listen, so I didn;t tell them. It was just a little funny, looking at them as the eyes that was telling them that they weren't ready to be doing full contact, the way people have told us that we weren't ready when we first started. Well, good luck with these guys, and I hope that the "art" side can change the attitudes and help them to mature. In response to this letter first of all i have to say that it is very dificult to determine whether or not one should be trained with out giving them a chance. You cant out right judge someone in that situation becaus you didnt know if they were ready to train or not. The fact is you discriminated on them becaus of thier age. I believe that the art of Kali is and should be taught to all people that want to learn, and it is impossible to determine the learning compasity of anyone with out training them for a certain amount of time. You didn't bother to give them a chance at first. Why? You first thought that they wouldn't be good learners but they keep coming back wanting to learn. What does that say about your judgement? A good learner will keep coming back, and those indivduals might be people you will want to train on a regular basis. > eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: abanico-video-knuettel@t-online.de (Dieter =?iso-8859-1?Q?Kn=FCttel?=) Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 11:26:03 +0200 Subject: eskrima: Teaching of the FMA in the Philippines > Luis Pellicer wrote: > snip > What do we know for certain? That the traditional FMA "school" (get-together would be more > appropriate) was in the backyard of some old mans house, that a couple of times a week young > men would come over offering some sort of gift (usually food) and convince him to show them a > couple of moves, that these young men would then practice amongst themselves whenever they > could. Any more than this is conjecture, or getting a piece of the puzzle and assuming the > whole is similar in nature. The founders of the older "clubs" and "organizations" studied this > way, and just trying to verify the name of thier teachers teacher is IMPOSSIBLE. Very interestig and good point. I met Edgar Sulite in the Philippines 1983 and he told me exactly the same about one of his masters (I forgot the name, too long ago, but I am sure about the story): he said, that this master did not want to teach him, he wanted to keep it a family style. Unfortunately, the son(s) of that master did not show any interest in FMA. So Edgar went to this master and brought him food etc., and asked, if he could learn but he was always turned down. Only after one year he was accepted and he could start training. OK, but was it always like this? I am only guessing and please correct me if anybody knows it any better: The behaviour of this master of Edgar and the description of Louis Pellicer tells me (from my point of view as a western person) that the masters mean something like: "I have no interest to teach you. And if you really want, please show some more effort, so that I know, you are really worth it, if I teach you". So far so good, but in the last 50 or so years, there was no real necessity to teach/learn the FMA to survive. But how about 100 or more years ago (again, I don´t know, I am only guessing), when there were still the spaniards, or the americans just coming in, in the time of the Katipunan, and also durind the tome of tribal feuds within the filipinos, the knowledge of fighting seemed to me a need to survive. So I would guess, that the people who had the knowledge of fighting would be willing to spread it (at least within the family or the village), because it would help the young people to survive. This is what I would imagine. Perhaps some of the filipino members of the list could comment this theory from the standpoint of the filipino mentality. I would be really interested in some comments. > We want ancient, like this in some way or form is superior to fairly recent innovation. > Yet most names of the movements, in the Art we practice are Spanish. Renaming them to what > Lapu-lapu MAY have called it does not change a thing. Deep Tagalog, as well as other dialects I > have heard but do not speak, do not ressemble the Spanish language. (Except for Chavacano) The > languages and dialects do not seem to overly tainted by the Spanish colonialization, but why is > Spanish the predominant language used to describe moves in our "ancient" Art? To say that only > the Spanish speaking Illustrados or servants of Spanish speaking households were smart enough > to define the movements, is an insult to the Filipinos intelligence. Makes you wonder about who > carried on the ancient martial tradition as we know it, the oppressed or the oppressors. Interesting point too, and from the little that I know of terminology of the older styles he is right. But what is the conclusion? Is it all spanish, what is taught in the FAM today? Or didn´t the filipinos have any names for the techniques and adapted the ones, that the spaniards used? Or what? This would be a topic for an academic study. > Malabo na yan. Walang McSpaghetti na matamis at may pulang hotdog sa America. Also very interesting ;-), but how about a brief translation for us non filipinos? Best regards from Germany Dieter Knüttel European Modern Arnis Representative (Internet: http://www.modern-arnis.de) ABANICO Video Productions (Internet: http://www.abanico.de) E-Mail: dk@abanico.de I HAVE MOVED - MY NEW ADRESS IS: Knyphausenstr. 2b 44287 Dortmund Germany ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 6:56:51 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #350 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. 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