From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #413 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Fri, 25 Aug 2000 Vol 07 : Num 413 In this issue: eskrima: school mgmt organizations eskrima: Re: Ads eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #412 eskrima: Larenez Garrote eskrima: Stand Alone Schools eskrima: Kali FMA/ oldest?? eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, the Martial Arts Resource, Inayan Eskrima Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Grantham Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 12:01:25 -0400 Subject: eskrima: school mgmt organizations Anyone out there with their own school using one of the martial arts management groups like EFC, EasyPay, Global Finance, etc? Comments, pro or con? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com - --------------------------------------- I used EFC, and they do a decent job. They collect consistently, and deposit the collections consistently. Some of their marketing ideas are a little over the top, but some of them work pretty well, without being money hungry or misleading. I know a school that uses EasyPay and they are not happy with them.. They pay you in different installments each month instead of one single time, their reports are hard to read, and they do hold the money before letting it go... I know someone who uses Napma and they seem happy with them.. Steve ------------------------------ From: IMATC@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 13:58:37 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Ads > The ad slicks they send me i cant/dont use. Hey Marc, I am A NAPMA school too with Pananandata, Muay Tahi and JKD. You can use their ad slick and just change the photo with a personal one.. If you have a scanner, just plug in whatever you want. Usually it is the Headlines and message like "What every kid needs" or something like that and just put one of your kids in your school shirt. The models they use vary, but it is the cathy slogan they choose for the month you want to keep. ace ramirez ------------------------------ From: "q" Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 12:32:37 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #412 > > From: "Steven C. Drape" > Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 22:32:07 -0700 (PDT) > Good observation, Todd. One way to note how the FMA has changed from the blade art it used to be is how most systems in the West use the angles of attack. All the systems I have ever studied still include quite a few thrusts (as many as 5), to places like the chest. These are useless attacks for a stick, yet most people are never taught the difference. A pure stick art would have no more than one or two thrusts in its angles, perhaps the eyes/throat and the groin. This is not the case with the systems I am familiar with. > Another point that students are not taught, unless the style is truly a blade style, is the difference between a blade and stick response. A stick response requires power, to strike the attacking limb or weapon with enough force to damage or deflect. To generate that power requires a particular way of moving the hips, waist and shoulders, as well as stepping in the proper manner. A blade, on the other hand, uses little to no force for the same response. All that is necessary is that the blade come in contact with the attacking limb, and a cut results. The body mechanics for the two are very different, as are the footwork and distancing>> Wow Steve, Respectfully, I totally disagree with you. There are similarites and differences with the blade. The blade can allow sloppy footwork and sloppy power application just like and idiot can pull a trigger. There is no subsitute for proper technique. Being sloppy and underestimating the capability of an opponant is not wise. Correct application of power with a blade leads to more than a cut but a telling disabiling blow and should be done with all the correct power transmission to ensure the most telling blow. Proper footwork gets you to the position so you can attack or counterattack. Spar the stick thrusts to multiple lines with no gear and see what happens. The physics guys on this list can tell you about force transmission over a small surface area...it is just math and it does not lie. Regards, C.H. Fung, D.D.S. Redondo Beach, Ca. ------------------------------ From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 16:51:37 EDT Subject: eskrima: Larenez Garrote From Marc Animal MacYoung Mike said << Yes, Bruno is the Venezuelan guy. I met him last year and saw his work then. The details are different from the Kali that I train in ... but the concepts are the same. "Larenz Garrote" (please forgive my spelling if it is incorrect) is the name of the art. If I remember correctly it is a machete art and, as with all else, form follows function ... in this case the application of the concepts are better suited to a machete than to a pinute, kampilan, etc. But again, the concepts are the same. >> We had Bruno down for a BBQ before he went off to the Gathering. Everyone was talking shop and he asked if I had some sticks so he could demonstrate some forms. I laughed evily and we walked into the "weapons room." Suuuuurrrrreee, I think we can find something. His blade and stick work is very interesting and fun to watch. I found several very signficant differences between what he taught and many of the kali forms I have encountered. What Bruno was doing was seriously non-sport oriented. He is not a man I would want to tangle with holding blades. After he got done playing with sticks. I broke out a couple of bastard swords and we played for a few minutes with a whole different ball of wax. Each of us were fascinated with the other's art. Next time Bruno is in town, we're going to get together for some real fun. ------------------------------ From: "Don Edwards" Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 22:46:09 GMT Subject: eskrima: Stand Alone Schools Am a bit late on this post..been recovering from surgery and just opened my email to find an absolute horror of junk mail mixed in with my Eskrima Digest... I've been bored recuping so this could be long! Re the question of How many students it takes to keep a stand alone school open ..I'm assuming that includes those schools where its the only source of income for the owner/instructor... I opened a facility a year and a half ago..full time... no other source of income... after spending nearly 25 years in the corporate world as a VP Finance of a publishing company... huge change.. (and after running a FMA/JKD school on a PT basis for 9 years)..a nice income to $0 income fast..... anyway.. My martial arts program is suplmented by a very large fitness program.. based on aerobic kickboxing and personal training and growing into a true fitness facility with other offerings.. the martial arts program contains about 25 to 30 children and about 10 to 12 adults... for me fitness is the big thing and the thing that keeps the doors open . for the people that have 40 or less students.. i'm not sure how your paying the bills.. i'm in a high rent area but my break even is about 40 students, give or take... not counting eating or paying college tuition/ cars etc...etc... I'm guessing that anyone with less than 80 to 100 students in a major urban area is taking it on the chin re finances....or a very scaled back life style. My program is mostly FMA..and JKD ...a nice compliment .. my kids learn alot of stick drills..stick fighting (WEKAF padding) parents are amazed at what they can do..also kickboxing and BJJ.. basically all ranges with some traditional karate thrown in where i feel its useful.... no knives though....adults work with WEKAF gear and without! I agree with seperating classes into empty hand vs weapons. ...but as my adults are a small group they attend all the classes.. I just rotate the ranges and make sure there is a progression within the month so it makes some sense... everyhing must tie in and they must see it! How many schools out there do forms?..was a big part of our training with GURO Cuesta.. primarliy for stick handling skills/ footwork etc... RAY.. this was a good question.. nice to see what others are doing out there .. might even be nice to have a forum on here for school owners to post questions/ideas etc..etc... Thanks, Don Edwards Integrated Martial Arts & Fitness Livingston, NJ ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 18:46:21 EDT Subject: eskrima: Kali FMA/ oldest?? Gary, Are you certainly know, that the Kali is the oldest weapons arts in Philippines? Well, Before this is accepted, probably by most foreign practitioner of the arts. Kali is not even existed, in other parts of the Philippines. Therefore is not eh oldest then, why? Because, before Indonesian, Malays, Indians, Chinese, and Spanish, reach the Philippines, they found that the Philippines has already citizen. The Aetas, Manyans, Baluga tribes, etc. etc. And this tribes has their own Weapon arts too. Example, Sibat (spears), Busog at Palaso (bow and arrow), Tungkod (Walking stick), Lubid (Vine rope) etc. etc. We have to remember, Philippines has 7,100 islands not only one islands have it all. << Filipino Stickfighting is originally come from "Blade" systems. Kali is the oldest style of Filipino weaponary art. If review several different popluar sytles of Kali and Eskrima, it will be very easy to find out lots >> of techniques is coming from "Blade" concept. Also the FMA, is not only weapon arts, their techniques is well work in both armed and un-armed situations. I think you look at the arts in a small picture, look at it in broader picture. We have Blade, Stick, knife, Mano-mano, Panuntukan, Sikaran, Dumog, Buno etc. etc. >> However, nowadays, if we talk about "Street Fight" using Filipino Weaponary art, it seems "Stick art" is more easier to use than " Blade art". Since "Blade Art" use lots of "Slashes" & "Cutting", but "Stick art" uses lots of "Hitting". If in a street fight situation, you are most likely to pick up a tool from the street to use for the fight, like a piece of wood, wasted water pipe, mod stick or some other things the shape is similar to a "Stick" and without a "sharp Blade", as a result, you need to apply "Hitting" technique in order to deliver a powerful strike. If you use a piece of wood without a "sharp >> Edge" to deliver "Slashes" or "Cutting", it won't have an effective damage. >> I think you really dont need to look for the stick to used in self defense, especially on the street. What if, not weapon available on the street or location, that you are in? What you going to do, still look for weapon? I thinks you must learn how to used your hand and feet huh? or feet alone, just run run, my friends, nothing wrong with techniques is running. Is safer sometimes, but if you cut you by surprise you have a big problem my friends. I think you must go and keep study the arts until you reach this empty hand application, so you don't have to look for stick anymore. Also just a tip, if you have key on hands, used that instead, belts, shirts, shoes, etc., The goal is to survived. Okay, I just think you need a little help on this threads, to better understand the arts study the arts. To understand history study the history, and to understand the techniques you must study and practice techniques. Don't guess, this is not quite sure though, it might lead you from nowhere. Gumagalang ng Lubos/with all respect Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 16:34:05 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #413 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.