From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #414 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sat, 26 Aug 2000 Vol 07 : Num 414 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #412 eskrima: ancient art eskrima: Singing and dancing... eskrima: Running styles eskrima: blades vs sticks, venezuelam connection n stuff eskrima: Garrote Larence/ Bruno eskrima: Does FMA translate to longer blades? eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #412/Stick thrusts eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #413 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #413 eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, the Martial Arts Resource, Inayan Eskrima Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SReiter000@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 19:49:21 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #412 In a message dated 8/25/00 10:55:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << . These are useless attacks for a stick, yet most people are never taught the difference. A pure stick art would have no more than one or two thrusts in its angles, perhaps the eyes/throat and the groin. This is not the case with the systems I am familiar with. >> ever try a 2 handed "bayonet" type thrust with a stick - does really matter where the target is - it does alot of damage. a buddy broken someones ribs with this shot during a lion heart tourney. phil galinas uses this all the time when he fights full contact. also it's a very basic pr24 technque as well steve ------------------------------ From: tenrec Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 01:54:18 +0100 Subject: eskrima: ancient art > ... Kali is > the oldest style of Filipino weaponary art. What exactly does this ancient art look like? Uh-oh....here we go again...but yeah, what what does this ancient art look like? (Asking mainly from the anthro/historical pt of view) tenrec tenrec@avcorner.com ------------------------------ From: "Michael Koblic" Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 18:13:39 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Singing and dancing... I have read with interest the thread about music and drumming while training FMA. Then I got to watch by chance a movie "That's dancing!" which are basically excerpts from famous dancing movies (including Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly etc.). Not for the first time I realized that I would kill to have these guys' footwork. My question is: Does anyone include dance in their MA training, and if so, what? Mike Koblic, Quesnel BC ------------------------------ From: David Reyes Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 18:47:29 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Running styles > What you going to do, still look for weapon? I > thinks you must learn how to used your hand and feet huh? or feet alone, just > run run, my friends, nothing wrong with techniques is running. Is safer > sometimes The Filipino arts of Sayonachi; "sayo na ang chinelas ko...sabay karipas ng takbo", and the other art we call Kung Tu; "kung tumakbo mabilis." :) Inkamin, David Reyes~ ------------------------------ From: tenrec Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 03:16:10 +0100 Subject: eskrima: blades vs sticks, venezuelam connection n stuff "Steven C. Drape" wrote: > Another point that students are not taught, unless the style is truly a blade >power, to strike the attacking limb or weapon with enough force to damage or deflect. To >generate that power requires a particular way of moving the hips, waist and shoulders, as well as stepping in the proper manner. A blade, on the other hand, uses little to no force for the same response. All that is necessary is that the blade come in contact with the attacking limb, and a cut results.The body mechanics for the two are very >different, as are the footwork and distancing. Good one Steve and Todd...I kept stressing this to my fellow students (years ago)...if you got the KNIFE (or edged weapon), don't keep whacking away like you got a pipe...you might as well club away at your opponent with the blunt end...which is too much work anyway. Let the edge do all the work... Another good observation is that there are "primarily stick arts," and "primarily blade arts", and some arts (IMHO) do not emphasize which is which, and which is for what...I theorize that that is why some of Arnis (/Escrima) styles still use pointy sticks... Dr. Fung: Respectfully, after rereading your post, I think you and Steve actually agree on the same points, perhaps except for the physics part perhaps (not sure what your point was on that)... >The Yaming style of blade fighting, from the island of Negros, is a true blade style. Whereabouts in Negros again? Stéphane, France wrote: >Same thing with FMA. But we have 2 different places: the Philippines and latin america, a >commundenominator: the invasion by the spanish conquistadores during 300 years and >we found in these places stickfighting, machettes, knives and espada y >daga... I let you make your own conclusions. There is clearly a connection. This is very interesting...but lets not "jump" to any "final" conclusions either...it is a very intriguing starting point for further research. IMHO, until I see his techniques demo'ed (video or live), I'll forego any assumptions either way... Bear in mind also that not ALL Filiipinos consider foreign influences a bad thing...it does seem politically incorrect in the FMAs (IMHO) to admit that there were Spansih swordfighting arts influenced Arnis or Escrima in any way... Mr. Animal wrote: >I found several very signficant differences between what he taught and many of the kali forms I >have encountered. What Bruno was doing was seriously non-sport oriented. Could you flesh in some details on these differences? thanks all tenrec tenec@avcorner.com ------------------------------ From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 22:32:18 EDT Subject: eskrima: Garrote Larence/ Bruno Hello, Thanks for the tip, guys. Bruno Cruichi is student of mine, he just visiting here, he is living next week. I saw the Garrote Larence techniques before on our Sama-sama 99 in Orlando Florida, that you guys are talking about. Its a kind, different approach. I really never asked him to play with me with his Garrote, because I dont want him to feel like I challenging him. But tomorrow, when he come over I will asked him to play with me, for a little bit. I would like to see and experience it myself what are you guys experienced. He wrote a good articles in Inside Kung Fu I believed is two years ago, he wrote a nice background of the arts of Garrote Larence, and also he claimed that might be a Philippines influence this arts. Well, I will confirm it tomorrow and I will try to keep you guys posted how it turned out okay? I like to see what is the quality "Garrote" of the Venezuelan way. It may be a good experience to for me and for him. Its challenging, why he is here learning from me and you guys, speak highly about his arts. I would like to be the one test that my self. Thanks. Don't worry, this is not challenge, is strictly, fun thing to do when someone knowledgeable as him come to your backyards and don't say anything much. He is down to earth person. He is planning to bring me for Seminar in Venezuela. I will tell him tomorrow, he is the topic of the ED today. Well, lets see. Good tip guys. Gumagalang ng Lubos/ with deep respect, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Laguna Arnis Federation Internatioanal US Harimw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA << His blade and stick work is very interesting and fun to watch. I found several very signficant differences between what he taught and many of the kali forms I have encountered. What Bruno was doing was seriously non-sport oriented. He is not a man I would want to tangle with holding blades. After he got done playing with sticks. I broke out a couple of bastard swords and we played for a few minutes with a whole different ball of wax. Each of us were fascinated with the other's art. Next time Bruno is in town, we're going to get together for some real fun. >> ------------------------------ From: Scytale Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 21:38:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Does FMA translate to longer blades? > From Marc Animal MacYoung > > We had Bruno down for a BBQ before he went off to the Gathering. Everyone was > talking shop and he asked if I had some sticks so he could demonstrate some > forms. I laughed evily and we walked into the "weapons room." > Suuuuurrrrreee, I think we can find something. > His blade and stick work is very interesting and fun to watch. I found > several very signficant differences between what he taught and many of the > kali forms I have encountered. What Bruno was doing was seriously non-sport > oriented. He is not a man I would want to tangle with holding blades. After > he got done playing with sticks. I broke out a couple of bastard swords and > we played for a few minutes with a whole different ball of wax. Each of us > were fascinated with the other's art. Next time Bruno is in town, we're going > to get together for some real fun. Marc, this is off-topic from what you were saying, but I've gotten curious while cruising some of the HACA website that was linked in an earier digest. Do any of the FMA stick techniques translate to a longer blade like the european bastard sword? Or is the weapon different enough to warrant much different footwork, strikes, parries, etc? Obviously the movements cannot remain exactly the same with a heavier, longer blade, but perhaps they can retain the same core like between knife and stick. Anyway, I'm curious to hear from someone who has done both... Bryan Creel shadow_of_the_dawn@yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: rob pugh Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 22:20:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #412/Stick thrusts "A pure stick art would have no more than one or two thrusts in its angles, perhaps the eyes/throat and the groin." I disagree. I've seen Dog Brothers video of many folks, especially Eric Knaus, using thrusts to the body very effectively. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Steven C. Drape" Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 01:34:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #413 Service Brought To You By http://WWW.DWP.NET - -------------------------------------------- >Respectfully, I totally disagree with you. Not the first time, Doc, and probably not the last- lol >There are similarites and differences with the blade. The >blade can allow sloppy footwork and sloppy >power application just like and idiot can pull a trigger. Of course the blade can be used sloppily, but the consequences are not as extreme as if one is using a stick. My point is that proper use of a blade tends to be less active, less acrobatic than a stick. >Correct application of power with a >blade leads to more than a cut but a telling disabiling blow >and should bedone with all the correct power transmission to >ensure the most telling blow. While you can use power slashes with a blade, and go for disabling blows instead of cuts, that method is the exception rather than the rule in FMA. Most slashing blades are curved a la the saber and the katana, while the majority of Filipino blades that I have seen are straight. Thrusts and chops are much more common than large slashing motions. Large slashing motions can cause more damage, but also opens more doors in the user's defense. A fighter well-versed in parries and deflections will be able to close and finish against the large slashing motions. Those types of attacks are more commonly seen in fighting from horseback or in heavy armor, where closing with the opponent is not productive or possible. > Spar the stick thrusts to multiple lines with no gear and >see what happens. The physics guys on this list can tell you about force >transmission over a small surface area...it is just math and it does not >lie. Thrusts with a stick, especially a stick used with one hand, are ineffective against an opponent who is in fighting mode- full of adrenaline. When I first went to the Philippines and was asked to spar with one of my teachers, I used a common closing technique that had always gotten a response back home. This involved faking a thrust and then closing off the attempted block. I tried it several times with no result, and finally the teacher stopped and asked me what was I doing. He never made any response to a thrust, fake or otherwise, because it was no danger to him. When I tried to carry one to the target, I just got nailed. Stick thrusts do not have enough force behind them to hurt anyone seriously enough to be useful. You can get more info on this from anyone who has fought full-contact. I believe, if I remember correctly, there is even a piece in one of the Dog Brothers videos about how ineffective thrusts are. I can't remember for sure, but perhaps someone else can help me here. Steve Steve_kbs@dwp.net http://www.geocities.com/eartes/KBS_System_index.html ------------------------------ From: Taojen1@aol.com Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 07:36:29 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #413 In a message dated 8/25/00 8:09:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << What Bruno was doing was seriously non-sport oriented. He is not a man I would want to tangle with holding blades. After he got done playing with sticks. I broke out a couple of bastard swords and we played for a few minutes with a whole different ball of wax. Each of us were fascinated with the other's art. Next time Bruno is in town, we're going to get together for some real fun. >> I believe mas Bruno teaches Sterlak Silat as well. Buddy ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 7:48:28 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #414 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.