From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #421 Sender: owner-eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: bulk Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Tues, 29 Aug 2000 Vol 07 : Num 421 In this issue: eskrima: Absorbed Matial Arts from the invaders. eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #420 eskrima: trapping/other comments eskrima: Re: history eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #419 eskrima: kali--like he said eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, the Martial Arts Resource, Inayan Eskrima Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 20:42:34 EDT Subject: eskrima: Absorbed Matial Arts from the invaders. Jeff Burke, I agreed, 100%. I do believe that overtime, the new invaders arrive to the Island the new, techniques, was added to the Native fighting arts. In order from the native to survives to more stronger force, they have study or analyzed, the fighting ways of the invaders, the more advance way of fighting was added to the old fighting arts. Maybe new names also was adapted to the arts. So the Filipino Fighting arts are never ending study of defensive and offensive techniques. Its not shocking if you see some Japanese looking techniques to the arts and Chinese looking techniques in FMA. We believed that limb, joints, is bend only on certain way, there similar movement of the hand foot are similar, off course, application of locks control, is similar to the locks control used in different fighting arts from other Asian countries. Gumagalang/with respect, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Laguna Arnis Federation international US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA << Thanks for getting back to me so quickly! I agree that the fact that the inscription is only from 900CE (common era has replace AD in history terminology) doesn't disprove your valid point that fighitng arts existed in the Phillipines before the Indian invaders arrived. I do beleive that the fillipinos must have absorbed some martial arts from the invaders as they always have done with the Muslims, Spanish, Americans, etc. Jeff Burke >> ------------------------------ From: Mike Casto Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 21:01:55 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #420 Marc wrote: << >However, recognize that some of the things that have crept into and/or have >been over-emphasized in current training will get you killed with a real >blade. I agree ... but I don't know that this is really a fault of the "art." I think this is a problem that has arisen from people getting their training at seminars. They assume that what they see at seminars is the entirety of the system/art ... then they go back and teach their incomplete understanding as "the system/art." Is this the whole reason? Most likely not ... but, in my humble opinion, it has likely played a large part in the trend you're referring to. While hard to find, I think that there are instructors/schools who do teach the realistic foundation of the Filipino arts. Regards, Mike - -- It is not how good you are; it is how bad you want it. -- Unknown ------------------------------ From: mk322@juno.com Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 20:04:18 -0700 Subject: eskrima: trapping/other comments >>From Marc Animal MacYoung > >> mk322@juno.com asked >>However, recognize that some of the things that have crept into and/or >>been over-emphasized in current training will get you killed with a real >>blade. Could you give some examples? >> > >Off the top of my head... > >Trapping, locking and disarms I wish some person more experienced than I, would comment on the whole trapping aspect. >Fighting, instead of neutralization you are basically saying you would prefer the Japanese model of (say) Swordfighting, of one-stroke-one-kill, where you end the fight in one deadly strike. >Fighting instead of running like hell But what if you are with your family? or you are old, and your knee is acting up again, or you are at home etc.... you are saying Arnis/Escrima should teach _when_ to runaway? >Speed instead of effective power delivery/edge contol I thought these all three went under the heading of "technique"? That with the effective power delivery, blade control, you developed speed, which rounded your technique. >Being more concerned about what you are going to do to him, than what he can >do to you Would this mean that Escrima is too offensive, and not defensive enough? Is that a fair interpretation? >That a stick is an average weapon with the idea that it wil teach you how to >use every weapon...ignoring that the differences are as significant as the >similiarities. yes, I think someone touched on this the other day, the idea of BLADED vs. BLUNTS, and how the average (American, at least), may have access to a stick, baseball bat, flashlight, broom handle etc....but probably wouldn't have access to a long blade, outside of their home. >And the last one is kind of hard to describe, but I will try... You have brought up some very good points, in your writings below. I would like to comment on one of them: >You WILL react according to your >training. . . . . . >Your training will tell you to do one thing while your monkey brain will be >telling you to do something else. While these two are having an >interdepartmental squabble, you're going to get mauled. Are you saying that certain styles of Arnis/Escrima are not "naturally oriented" (a person wouldn't be able to do them under stress/they don't have the right "physics" behind them)....? ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ From: Kilap@aol.com Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 21:51:51 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: history << The Sri Vijaya, was 13th century, also the madjapahit Empire is at about the same time 12 th 13th Century. That make this records earlier than them. >> I have little interest in the argument here but recent archaeological evidence establishes one of the first Srivijayan capitals being at Palembang in south Sumatra in the 7th to 8th century. I realize Sumatra is a good distance, 1000+ miles, from the islands of the central Philippines.... Regards, Travis ------------------------------ From: "Steven C. Drape" Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 22:42:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #419 Service Brought To You By http://WWW.DWP.NET - -------------------------------------------- >armpit, due to the force of both fighters the stick got stuck to his armpit, .......So I've seen it the effectiveness of the thrust, with stick, a lot >of fighter lost their eyes, due of the stubbing techniques of the stick. .......right timing, >precision techniques is effective killing techniques. >felt thrusts effectively used when delivered to an opponent's >groin, sternum, or throat. The original statement about thrusts was in reference to the angles of attack still used by many groups where they still practice thrusts to areas like the pectorals, and the difference between training for the blade and training for the stick. Of course there are effective targets where thrusts WILL be practical. As often happens, the original ideas expressed get changed along the way until we end up discussing something entirely different. Steve Steve_kbs@dwp.net http://www.geocities.com/eartes/KBS_System_index.html ------------------------------ From: tenrec Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 13:13:24 +0100 Subject: eskrima: kali--like he said Herr Grand Pooh-Bah Ray Terry wrote: (all hail!) >But did it.?. I submit that Kali is an old word that refers to an old art. And that is about as far as we can be confident. Was it a blade art? We don't know for sure. Was it a stick art? We don't know for sure. Was it an empty hand art? Did it include grappling? Well put... >This is a similar situation to the Korean art of Subbaki. It is a very old word referring to a very old martial arts style from Korea (and/or China). But we don't know what that art was like, to whom it was taught, or what (if >any) weapons were employed. I'm glad somebody pointed this out...I understand from my TSD teacher (years ago) that this is a major sore point among the different Korean MA's (just like with the FMAs)... >We know what the Kali of today is like, but IMHO we should not assume that >the Kali of old was -anything- like today's Kali. Ditto! tenrec tenrec@avcorner.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 7:23:37 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #421 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.