From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #425 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Mon, 11 Sept 2000 Vol 07 : Num 425 In this issue: eskrima: MULTIPLE OPPONENTS eskrima: FMA in Boston eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #423 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #424 eskrima: Self Defense w/out Sticks eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #423 eskrima: The Purloined Letter eskrima: W. Hock Hochheim's Videos eskrima: No comment eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #424 eskrima: new FMA Supplies Vendors listings eskrima: list back up ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, the Martial Arts Resource, Inayan Eskrima Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kjowers194@cs.com Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 14:30:20 EDT Subject: eskrima: MULTIPLE OPPONENTS How do you train? Example : say for instance you have to run to the store late at night for some reason or another. You just happened to pull your jeans on that has the three knives (or more) that you carry everyday in your pockets, but forgot to pick up the Glock 23 (IMHO there is no other handgun that is worthy; well maybe a Glock 22 or 27 ) in your haste. you walk in the all nigh stop n' rob and suddenly some gangbanger begins mouthing at you. you ignore it and go on about your business. This guy just won't stop and when you begin to check out he gets right up in your face and begins pushing the buttons (you know, the fight or flight buttons ) . you try to talk your way out of it and make light of his anger towards you, apologize and attempt to leave. He grabs you by the arm as he follows you outside, then threatens to kill you. he reaches into his waistband in the type of manner that you know he is not going to give you his business card so you can do lunch some time. You engage him and take him out rather quickly (with empty hands or weapons, I'll leave that up to the individual) ensuring your victory. But lo and behold you get hit from behind with a quart bottle of beer. as the world spins, you think to yourself where in the hell did that come from. While his friends are kicking the crap out of you and playing Lord of the Dance on your forehead, you think to yourself , "Where did I go wrong? Heck your a trained martial artist and have fought two or more people in class before. What went wrong?" This is just a real quick example I dreamed up. But without delving into it very much, if at all, How Do You Train For Multiple Opponents' ? It is a reality. Ken ------------------------------ From: Saturbo@aol.com Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 17:17:11 EDT Subject: eskrima: FMA in Boston Are there any FMA schools/instructors in the Boston/Cape Cod area? Just curious. A post or email would be appreciated. Thanks. ------------------------------ From: Powrscrol@aol.com Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 18:01:26 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #423 In a message dated 8/31/00 6:37:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << a lot of people nowadays get into being a "trapper" that kind of defeats the purpose of a fight. The idea of fighting is to HIT the opponent, period. Trapping is simply barrier removal >> True, but (unless I'm forgetting something) there are 3 basic kinds of traps: 1. Defensive -- you execute an offensive technique; the opponent attaches to your arm with parry or block; you respond with trap & counterstrike. 2. Offensive -- Your opponent is highly skilled, or, his limbs leave few openings; you create the attachment (setup) to trap so that your strike can penetrate his tied up defense. 3. Countertrap -- you attempt strike; the opponent traps; you reverse his trap by countertrapping. Many times, of course, with proper usage of speed, timing, & positioning, trapping isn't necessary -- which is probably what you're saying, right? Steve W. ------------------------------ From: Bladewerkr@aol.com Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 18:46:41 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #424 Well, Dave I can certainly see your point of view but to my way of thinking playing a defensive game is a bit like playing "catch up" when the other possibilities are exhausted and it comes down to having to fight a quote from my old (very old, back in the 50's) boxing coach comes to mind. "Blessed is he whose quarrel is just, but thrice blessed he who's blow lands first." I know there are a lot of people out there that are very good at locking etc. I am not one of them for me "enter with pain" and if a lock or a disarm works its way into the situation fine, if not I hit. I am not so advanced that I can go into an altercation knowing what's going to happen, I salute you and anyone else that can do so. I have found that in the street, once you "tenderize" the opponent he is much easier to lock up, choke out, throw etc. There again everyone has their own perspective on the matter, but most of the real world players I know have the same mindset. There again in the training hall a lot of stuff is different. I respect your opinion and would like to ask where your main area of expertise lies. I have been a bouncer off and on for over 30 years, a recovery agent for a bail bondsman and owned 2 bars 1 catered to bikers the other to cowboys. So I have had more than an intellectual experience when it comes to violence. And a lot of time a preemptive strike may not be legal but its better than a stomping. Your friend in the arts, Bear ------------------------------ From: Sinjay36@aol.com Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 20:00:39 EDT Subject: eskrima: Self Defense w/out Sticks Does anyone know of a page that tells about using other items in self defense, not just like any item you can find like on the street, but items that are taught how to be used in Some FMA classes, like newspaper, shoe, umbrella , chair... Thank You JAY ------------------------------ From: "Steven C. Drape" Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 22:48:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #423 Service Brought To You By http://WWW.DWP.NET - -------------------------------------------- >Personally I think a lot of the stuff that has crept in and been >over-emphasized have more to do with focusing on minutia to keep students' >interest and working to perfect complicated moves so they don't get bored and >move on...thereby losing you money. I would agree 100% with this statement. A very large percentage of the drills and exercises common in FMA schools today would not be recognized by someone suddenly re-incarnated from the past. Are they effective in teaching something important? Maybe, but everyone should consider that, if they weren't used in the past, and the old men are so good, then where is the necessity? Another point about these drills and exercises is that perfecting them, and even being able to use them in a real encounter may be counter-productive. Someone had an excellent post about this on another forum. They had asked one of their teachers if he knew the hubad-lubad drill. The teacher was able to execute it perfectly, from his knowledge of the sticks, but afterwards, he simply said that it was interesting, but why not just smack the guy instead of playing with him. That short statement sums up my philosophy very neatly, and I believe, points out one of the major problems with the teaching of FMA today. Steve Steve_kbs@dwp.net http://www.geocities.com/eartes/KBS_System_index.html ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 07:23:56 -0700 Subject: eskrima: The Purloined Letter A Howl of Greeting to All: Animal wrote: > Senior Crafty said > > "As for his point about trapping, if I imagine correctly his thinking, its right as > far as it goes, but IMHO it doesn't go far enough." > > Ya know...my wife often says the same thing about my thinking :D > > Anyway I would like to hear your thoughts on the subject and what I am > missing. If I understand Animal's original negative comment on trapping correctly, he is thinking of the multi-trap training sequences and the people practicing them and figuring that if these people were tried to do what they are practicing against a real knife they are going to get themselves killed. He's right. I know that many people are questioning trapping these days because they are not seeing it as they have trained it or seen it trained. I believe the answer in great part is definitional: as I would define it, we see trapping all the time. In the training, the traps are released, in fighting they are not. For example, what is a lop sao? A grab and yank. Empty hand, there might be a strike into the opening created, or a lock/wrench on the arm, a throw, whatever. This can be standing or on the ground. Against a knife, if I grab the hand/wrist and yank to set up a disarm, is that not the same thing? Of course, a lot of things like timing, footwork, zoning, composure etc. will determine whether one's hand will be at the end of one's arm after an effort to grab. Anyway, Conrad (a.k.a. "Little Fang") just woke up. Gotta go. Woof, Crafty Dog ------------------------------ From: ginom@info.com.ph Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2000 19:00:26 +0800 Subject: eskrima: W. Hock Hochheim's Videos TO ALL DIGEST MEMBERS ... Has anyone in this digest bought W. Hock Hochheim's Videos. I'm interested in a review. You can email me directly if you feel a public posting of your opinion is preferable. Thanks. ginom@info.com.ph ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 12:03:29 -0700 Subject: eskrima: No comment A Howl of Greeting to All: This from an Associated Press article: American May have argued way into Captivity/Zamboanga, Philippines Muslim rebels who took an American man hostage in the southern Philippines did so after he angered them in an argument over religous issues at their jungle camp a newspaper reported Sunday. "There was a scuffle, and suddenly Schilling had become a hostage" freelance reporter Arlyn de la Cruz quoted a rebel as saying in the Philippine Daily Inquirer. Jeffrey Schilling of Oakland went to the camp voluntarily the paper reported. He was being held by the Abu Sayyaf rebels inside a bamboo hut guarded by 10-15 men when De la Cruz visited Friday. His hands had been tied with electrical wire since Tuesday, when he damaged the door to the hut the paper said. , , , , , , Schilling, 24, converted to Isalm several years ago and has been living in southern Zamboanga since March with a Muslim Filipina. He reportedly angered the rebels in arguments Thurdsday over such issues as the age at which Muslim boys should be allowed to use weapons. Crafty Dog ------------------------------ From: "Elite Self Defense Centers" Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 07:59:54 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #424 Are there any FMA schools or anyone teaching in the Bremerton, Wa area. I have a cousin living in Port Orchard that is interested in getting started. You amy e-mail me privately if you wish for more info. Tom Lopez elitesdc@itis.com Elite Self Defense Centers Inayan System of Eskrima ------------------------------ From: Loki Jorgenson Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 16:43:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: new FMA Supplies Vendors listings Hi all - a little update on the FMA Database http://www.pekiti-tirsia.org:8080/FMA/ o There is a NEW area for vendors of FMA supplies. Only a few listings have been added so far - you are encouraged to add any you have or tell any relevant vendors to list themselves. I have a bunch more to put in but I could really use your help. o Soon the vendors area will also allow consumers to comment on or score them according to your experience. Not yet though. o The Feature area is starting to grow - this month's is the Columbia River BearClaw knife - looks like a karambit to me. Any suggestions for future features are gladly accepted. Watch for next month's Feature! o The FMA database is currently holding 847 instructor listings 204 organization listings 1726 glossary terms 4 vendors listings 4 featured resources with a pretty steady rate of submissions, particularly for the instructors listings. Thanks to all who have made suggestions or helped out. - -- 'gards, /\ Pekiti-Tirsia kali / \ silat Jati Wisesa Loki Jorgenson < MANOyBASTON Martial Arts > / __ \ Dog Brothers MA loki@pekiti-tirsia.org (604) 254-0240 / _L \ Majapahit Empire www.pekiti-tirsia.org/ManoBaston/ /________\ (Inosanto-IMAIA) ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 7:29:20 PDT Subject: eskrima: list back up I'm back from Ohio, the list is back up. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #425 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.