From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #429 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Tues, 12 Sept 2000 Vol 07 : Num 429 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #428 eskrima: Purpose of a fight eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #427 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #426 eskrima: Seminars eskrima: Multiple Attackers eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, the Martial Arts Resource, Inayan Eskrima Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bladewerks@aol.com Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 10:55:22 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #428 << How does Applegate's system compare to FMA? I have your knife vids (great job, btw). Is the "military" stance with the left forarm extended the system your talking about? >> I was talkiing to Hock Hochheim who has talked to Applegate and he said that Applegate told him that the picture WAS NOT a stance.The photographer was taking pictures of Rex and decided on that one to use and it had become known as the Applegate stance.Rex Applegate got a good laugh out of that.Everyone thought that that was his stance or something.In fact he had no favorite stancce at all. ------------------------------ From: David Beck Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 11:19:43 -0500 (CDT) Subject: eskrima: Purpose of a fight Because of the long break, I'm re-displaying the initial exchange: >>>From: Bladewerkr@aol.com >>>Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 18:22:09 EDT >>>Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #421 >>> >>>Just one thing on trapping: a lot of people nowadays get into being a >>>"trapper" that kind of defeats the purpose of a fight. The idea of fighting >>>is to HIT the opponent, period. Trapping is simply barrier removal just as if >>>you need your boots but they are behind your tennis shoes either reach over >>>or remove the tennis shoes to get your boots. All we do with a trap is clear >>>our way to our primary objective which is to hit and inflict damage on our >>>opponent. Fma just, in my opinion, provides a superior way of doing so. >> me: >>I disagree; that's too simplified. A trap can lead into a throw, a break, >>a joint lock, a disarm, a choke, a deflection into some obstacle in the. >>environment; it could be creating an opening to run away, handcuff one wrist, >>etc. I agree the trap itself isn't enough, but the primary objective isn't >>always to inflict damage. Destroying the opponent's will to fight is >>better. >> >>Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 18:46:41 EDT >Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #424 > >Well, Dave I can certainly see your point of view but to my way of thinking >playing a defensive game is a bit like playing "catch up" when the other >possibilities are exhausted and it comes down to having to fight a quote from >my old (very old, back in the 50's) boxing coach comes to mind. "Blessed is >he whose quarrel is just, but thrice blessed he who's blow lands first." I >know there are a lot of people out there that are very good at locking etc. I >am not one of them for me "enter with pain" and if a lock or a disarm works >its way into the situation fine, if not I hit. I am not so advanced that I >can go into an altercation knowing what's going to happen, I salute you and >anyone else that can do so. I have found that in the street, once you >"tenderize" the opponent he is much easier to lock up, choke out, throw etc. >There again everyone has their own perspective on the matter, but most of the >real world players I know have the same mindset. There again in the training >hall a lot of stuff is different. I respect your opinion and would like to >ask where your main area of expertise lies. I have been a bouncer off and on >for over 30 years, a recovery agent for a bail bondsman and owned 2 bars 1 >catered to bikers the other to cowboys. So I have had more than an >intellectual experience when it comes to violence. And a lot of time a >preemptive strike may not be legal but its better than a stomping. Your >friend in the arts, Bear I don't think we're in too much of a disagreement here. I'm not saying you *have* to play a defensive game; it depends. But for most people in most situations there are witnesses and you will have to justify yourself later for your actions. I teach 3 levels of mindset and reactions: - - passive defense - not being there, evasion, escape, soft blocks - - active defense - hard blocks, pressure points, control joint locks, some strikes - - all-out defense - anything goes, kill or be killed Passive and active defense could be considered a defensive game. Handling a bully, your drunk Uncle Charlie, a 'friend' being a jerk, a spouse, a date who's not responding to 'no' -- these are examples of situations where you might not want to really hurt the attacker - that passive or active can work and you WANT to play a defensive game. Policeman and bouncers are usually in the 'active defense' situation -- you want the person out the door or in custody, not dead. Of course no one knows what will happen and a situation may escalate to an all-out, life or death one; in which case of course an aggressive mindset helps tremendously. And you have to be ready to shift mindsets to avoid the bringing a knife to a gun fight scenario. When I was a kid my momma told me not to play in the street. Most of us, most of the time can avoid the 'street' and all-out situations entirely. When we can't, a knife or gun is much better than the fist. 'My main area of expertise' - I'd say teaching, getting across a concept whether the student learns best by seeing, hearing, feeling, etc. My background is formal training in Hapkido, Taekwondo, and Modern Arnis; less formal training from aikijujutsu, kempo, shito-ryu karate, etc; certain concepts and influence from Sun Tsu, Don Angier, Tony Blauer, Robert A. Heinlein, etc. Over 17 years now of training - I'm almost legal :) David N. Beck Internet:dbeck@usa.alcatel.com WATT Lead Engineer Alcatel USA 1000 Coit Road Plano, Texas 75075 ** Opinions expressed are not those of Alcatel USA ** ------------------------------ From: Justo370@aol.com Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:14:06 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #427 In a message dated 9/11/00 10:21:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << From: Kjowers194@cs.com Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 16:39:07 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #426 In a message dated 9/11/00 1:57:30 PM Central Daylight Time, >> Dear Ken: A buddy of mind studies Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu, and they often perform a training exercise called "Walking the Gauntlet." Essentially, one person (i.e., the "Monkey-in-the-middle") walks in the middle of the class with students on either side of him, and one person (or maybe MORE than one person, depending on the "monkey's" martial art experience) attacks him from either direction, WITHOUT forewarning. I have also seen this used in some Internal Martial Art schools, where one person stands in a circle and is attacked from any and all angles, and the student is forced to defend him/herself. In a TKD school, a student had to wear a blindfold and try and defend himself by using his senses (i.e., smell, hear, touch). Any and all of the above examples can be utilized in a prearranged manner, at first, and then you can have a sort of "Randori" approach, similar to how Judo and Aikido players train with a free-for-all way of defending against multiple opponents. But again, the key is to "Watch your back", and keep your "attacker" IN FRONT of you. The only way to learn is to do it. Practice with these drills, it's a lot of fun. Caveat: Go at a moderate speed, and use protective equipment, especially a groin protector. OUCH! :-0) ------------------------------ From: "Graham Jamieson" Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 19:44:43 BST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #426 Steve recently wrote: ><< Another point about these drills and exercises is that perfecting them, >and even being able to use them in a real encounter may be >counter-productive. Someone had an excellent post about this on another >forum. They had asked one of their teachers if he knew the hubad-lubad >drill. >The teacher was able to execute it perfectly, from his knowledge of the >sticks, but afterwards, he simply said that it was interesting, but why not >just smack the guy instead of playing with him. That short statement sums >up >my philosophy very neatly, and I believe, points out one of the major >problems with the teaching of FMA today. > To which Tom replied: >Instead of being dismissive of hubad - lubad, this teacher should have told >his student that hubad is not a technique to be executed, rather it's >simply >a method to develop attributes. Our system focuses on close & medium >range, >& hubad - lubad does wonders for my reflexes & timing in that close space. I share similar concerns to Stevens about the inefficiency of how many students are being taught FMA today. Lets take Guro Inosantos' Hu Bud drill as an example- but remember that's not the issue. From what I have seen similar movements do sometimes occur spontaneously in the free flow of Corto sparring such as that practiced in GM Cacoy Canete's Doce Pares. I can see then how Hu Bud can be readily applied in that context by someone who is already proficient at that flow. I perceive however (and perhaps I am mistaken) that for many students who practice this drill the development of "flow" (sensitivity and spontaneous improvisation, ie finding something that works- now)is obscured by the complexity and rigidity associated with the practice. Many of them just don't seem to see the forest for the trees. I'm not talking about high level practitioners I'm talking about the students. I presume for most instructors our first priority is to enhance our students chances of surviving a life threatenining attack. Physical skills can be perfected over a life time but students need to be prepared to fight now not in ten years time. Our drills should develop real fighting ability in our students in one or two months. Much to the disgust of their modern students this is exactly the time many old Philippinos said it took them to teach someone how to fight. So if this isn't happening (and come on folks 90% of the time it's not)aren't we screwing things up? Graham Jamieson Black eagle Arnis-Eskrima _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ From: "billlowery" Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 21:57:33 +0100 Subject: eskrima: Seminars Hi All, OK I'm looking for seminar details for the following people/systems in Europe (ideally in the UK): Mike Inay Leo Gaje Modern Arnis (Remy Presas - Yes I know about a few in the UK, but I'd like to hear about France/Spain/Germany etc) Kali Illustrissimo Balintawak So can anyone out there help? Bill Lowery ------------------------------ From: Michael Merilos Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 14:04:04 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Multiple Attackers In our Kenpo/Ju- Jitsu class under Prof. James Muro, we train our lower ranking belts to fight 3 on 1 and our higher ranking belts 3-5 on 1. The lower ranks are fully padded while the higher ranks maybe fight with head and hand pads. Take in mind that the "victim" in this case is fighting other students with the same martial arts training. This will enhance the ability of the "victim" to be more aware than fighting against someone not well trained. In some cases I noticed the "victim" will use the smallest or weakest in the group as a shield (holding him in a choke hold or arm bar) until another attacker gets close enough, and in other cases the "victim" fell to the attackers. Other times when the students are sparring 1 on 1, we would send another student to attack the person winning to see if he notices an on coming attacker. We have been doing this frequently and now the students are more aware of "surprise attackers" when they are sparring. Take in mind that no severe blows are used while in training. Like using low line kicks to the knee or shin to slow down or disable an attacker as one WOULD use in this scenario. Other than that almost anything goes. We haven't tried anything like this with weapons in our Eskrima class..............yet. Full time student, Mike Merilos ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 17:23:00 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #429 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.