From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #435 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Mon, 18 Sept 2000 Vol 07 : Num 435 In this issue: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #434 eskrima: HuBud's not the issue eskrima: Re: Snookie's whip eskrima: X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (34WB1.4.03) eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry, the Martial Arts Resource, Inayan Eskrima Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David Elkins" Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 14:32:31 -0700 Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #434 Tom, et al, I am very happy to hear about your venture with Paladin. I really regard them as surpassing the contemporary "traditional" martial arts instruction model with the likes of Datu Kelly Worden, Master at Arms James Keating, Mike Janish, and others from which one can "real" fighting arts. I am aware of only two resources on the whip as a combat methodology: James Keatings Latigo video and one from Master Steve Woodward entitled Mastering the Whip. Are there other books/videos available? Anyone interested in reproducing any out of print material for sale or trade? I will look forward to your book with enthusiasm. David ------------------------------ From: "Graham Jamieson" Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 23:40:23 BST Subject: eskrima: HuBud's not the issue Terry Tippie's experience with Guro Inosanto adapting the HuBud to the Thai plumb down (for the purpose of preventing grappling) is a good example of the sort of spontaneous improvisation around a simple theme that I was trying to suggest was critical to developing the fighting skills of the "grandfathers" generation of eskrimadors. If you look at the spoken record the time they were taught by father or uncle or grandfather was typically 2 to 3 years. They would typically claim to be able to teach the fighting skills in a couple of months at most. The specific drills and techniques they taught were very simple, not at all like what most students are exposed to in FMA classes today. Western students exposed to the older ways are often very disappointed and quit after a couple of months because they conclude they have learned all the of the (seemingly simplistic) knowledge their teachers have to offer. However these old gentlemen can effortlessly produce numerous techniques in response to almost any specific novel situation you throw at them (just like the above example). If anyone I taught (even for a very short time) ended up in a life threatening self defense situation I could not face myself unless I knew that I had done everything possible in that time to prepare them to survive. I would seriously expect that any student should have been able to do the sort of thing Guro Inosanto did in Terry's example after at most a couple of years training. That most obviously can't suggests to me that there is some fundamental problem with how they are being trained. I could not agree more with previous responses that repetitive drilling of simple reflexes is extremely important. When I have this heated argument with my (still good) friends they seem to have the impression that this is what I'm rejecting. My own experience is that spontaneous improvisation in the face of the completely unexpected is not an optional extra in surviving a murderous assault. I fully accept that instructors in many schools have these attributes after many years of training. The manongs seem to have "got it" in a much quicker time and so should most of today's students. I strongly suspect the rote memorization of numerous specific elaborate sequences of techniques positively trains students not to engage this simple ability that any child possess. In fact it's so natural that at first you really have to work hard to get people to switch it off! My point was about a broad approach to training not any specific drill. As a matter of fact I do teach HuBud to my students (properly acknowledging it's source in a different system). However after showing students the general idea of how to use the drill I leave it up to them to explore in their own time (in pairs)what they can develop out of it. They know already know how to lock, kick the shin, sweep, throw, punch targets x,y &z, elbow ,head butt, hit the arm. It's up to them to explore how to use this drill. Then they come back and show the rest of us what they have developed. We will all criticize and help each other test out our ideas and develop them further. We find a lot of it doesn't work too well but some of it works real well. They (raw beginners) learn quickly that they don't need me to show them everything. The variety and individuality that emerges in their training once they get that idea is amazing. I am sure they benefit much more from this than being spoon fed fifty different technique sequences they can do from (for example)Hu Bud. At any rate it should be possible to test the effectiveness of these different teaching methods and measure the different results rather than just speculating about this. Graham Jamieson Black Eagle Arnis-Eskrima _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ From: Chad Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 01:33:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Snookie's whip Tom, my grandfather was very good friends with Snookie, so I'll ask. I'm suprised that you've even heard of him though, he was more of a backyard instructor here in Hawaii. For any of you that don't know, Snookie was exceptional with a whip. Even after having a few drinks, the man could whip out flames on a candle held by (I think it was his son) while blindfolded. He was also one of the instructors in Hawaii who would still go out and work out with his students. I had only got to know him briefly before his passing and he was a kind, big-hearted man. ===== Chad chad@fullcontacthi.com Full Contact Stickfighting Hawaii http://www.fullcontacthi.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere! http://mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Mikal Keenan Date: 18 Sep 00 07:31:29 CDT Subject: eskrima: X-Mailer: USANET web-mailer (34WB1.4.03) I just read some results following the Australian gun ban as reported online (NewsMax). Is this what we have to look forward to if the cronies of the current administration have their way? Assaults up 8.6% Homicide up 3.2% Homicide with firearms up 300% (Victoria State) Armed Robbery up 44% Data for previous 25 years showed decline in armed robbery with firearms. Dramatic increase (no figures in story) in break-ins and assaults on the elderly. Not unlike Washington, D.C. (my hometown) where, despite a long-standing total ban on firearms, latest reports show an increase in homicides. I'm not bashing the Land Down Under ... I've got a nephew who may be headed there with his wife and kids. BTW, the story related that the Australian government sometimes used deadly force in their collection of firearms. Can it happen here? Truth is stranger than fiction. Mitakyoase, Mik ____________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://home.netscape.com/webmail ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 7:17:25 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #435 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.