From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #482 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sat, 14 Oct 2000 Vol 07 : Num 482 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #481 eskrima: Promises, promises eskrima: Titles and Ranks eskrima: titles eskrima: Emerson knife sold eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource An open FMA discussion forum provided in memory of Suro Mike Inay, Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 10:40:31 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #481 In a message dated 10/13/00 8:22:29 AM Mountain Daylight Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << No one seems to mention the Filipino Kuntao tape of Rick Hernandez though. Anyone out there looked at it? >> Yep....and I liked it. Steve Plinck, Bob Orlando and Rick Hernandez all did fantastic tapes. ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 08:54:19 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Promises, promises A Howl of Greeting: > Crafty, > > Sorry if I missed it, but didn't you promise a report of the Gathering? > > Cory Cory, yes I did but right now I'm playing a game of chicken with Top Dog trying to get him to come up with the post that he promised me he would do first. ;-) Maybe this weekend he will get to it. As for me, I'm headed for Ohio to train with Dr. Gyi. And if I can't shake the report out of Eric first, I will get to it. Yip, Crafty ------------------------------ From: "Tom Meadows" Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 09:51:07 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Titles and Ranks Greetings, I thought I would jump in on this thread with a few observations. Jim Lowe's remark about the Inosanto system having a loose structure is fairly accurate. The instructor's program is totally organized and structured, but in the academy itself there is no formal hierarchy or ranks. This is because skill is the best indicator of true rank, and without formal ranks Guro Dan has avoided the pitfall of having a higher ranked student consistently outclassed or out sparred by someone with a lower rank. It is a very unique system and eliminates many of the boundaries, both social and political, that can occur when everyone has their rank around their waist or printed on their tee shirt. Thirteen years ago in my early days there I approached and trained with many a fellow student that I would have been terrified to approach had I known their actual rank and standing in the system. One of these was Marc Denny, and Guro Dan's approach to ranking is clearly mirrored in the Dog Brothers Clan .There are no ranks, just descriptive names, because as Marc once explaind to me "In a dog pack there is a total hierarchy , and all the dogs know what it is without being told, or having to read ranks on another dog's collar. They also know what to do when they want to change their positon in the hierarchy: They fight" I won my WEKAF full contact world title as a white belt and remained at that rank for several years due to politics. I was complaining about this "injustice" to Guro Dan one day and he told me that Ed Parker's best fighter and Sergeant at Arms for his school was a permanent white belt. This student and Mr. Parker had made the agreement about his rank to deal with the very common problem of students of other systems showing up at Parker's school to challenge his fighters. Ed would look around casually and say " How about about if you fight one of my white belts, say, that one there..." And we now know which white belt he was picking out. In Doce Pares we have Diony Canete who is ranked as a Grandmaster and doesn't like the title (at all). I have known him for eleven years and the last time I saw him I asked him how he would like to be addressed, and all he said was : "Diony". And then there is GM Cacoy who considers rank and titles to be quite important. I asked him why once, and all he said was it is necessary to create "distance" between the instructors as a group and the instructors and their students. I don't know that I agree with this, but it is in marked contrast to Diony who wishes no title for himself at all. And both of these men are from the same system. Ted LucayLucay used the term Maestro for himself, which I always thought had a nice sound, without the pretensions of the "Master" title. Ted liked the connection with the orchestra of musicians and the conductor of their skills. And as for me, well, all I can say is that I am happy with : Supreme Exalted Tommy the Whip, 12th grade ------------------------------ From: tenrec Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 03:20:18 +0100 Subject: eskrima: titles On the "titles" thread: Both sides that have posted make very good points. There HAVE been some strange titles bestowed upon practitioners, many of which are not recognizable by the Filipino-speakers on the list. IMHO, this causes some "consternation" at times, particularly when Philippine-based practitioners meet Western practitioners . And only because the title causes the Filipino speakers to wince. "Guro" is not often heard in the Philippines, in the context of addressing one's teacher; "sir" (pronounced "seyr" to the Engllish speaker) is more common, or, as pointed out by one of our brother digesters, "titser" (or "tits" for short) or "maam." This is pretty much the case in Arnis as well. One title I don't see on the list much is "maestro," which was used just a generation ago, both in school (in general) and (IMHO just as appropriately) in Arnis instruction. On the other hand, the digester who said that "titles are really between the Arnis instructor and his student" is also correct, IMHO, because the teacher can bestow any title he wants to. As long as its his school and his style, it's his call. The" titles" thing mainly irks Filipino-speakers (and Filipinos I'm guessing) on this list because Filipinos tend to be "title-conscious." Culturally speaking, titles are important to Filipinos, and so they do not take them lightly. That is why you find "Engr.", or "Atty." (Attorney) prefixed to so many names in the Phil. IMHO, you don't see this anywhere else. "Datu" is a title that bears both cultural and political weight in the Muslim regions of the Philippines. Herr Knuettel, have you ever been to Mindanao, or to other parts using that title? I'd be interested in hearing about any experiences regarding this, from any western "Datu." (Seriously.) In Luzon or the Visayas, they would probably just look at you funny... BTW: can anyone tell me which Fil. language "tuhon" comes from? In general, whatever you choose to call someone, always smile when you call him/her that .. : 8 ) Peace to all, Fuehrer, Reichschancellor und Grandissimo Capo di tutti Il Duce des Sayonachi (don't make me use my laser vision) tenrec tenrec tenrec@avcorner.com ------------------------------ From: "BILL MCGRATH" Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2000 23:46:41 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Emerson knife sold The Emerson knife is sold. My buddy with the Emerson fixed blade has accepted an offer on the knife. No further inquiries please. Many thanks to all those who gave advice on the sale of this knife. Regards, Bill McGrath ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 7:35:26 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #482 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.