From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #485 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Mon, 16 Oct 2000 Vol 07 : Num 485 In this issue: eskrima: Sundry eskrima: Bando Forum eskrima: Gathering Report Part Two eskrima: Greetings and Salutations Mr. Hartman! eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #484 eskrima: Simonet tapes eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource An open FMA discussion forum provided in memory of Suro Mike Inay, Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marc Denny" Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 11:08:52 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Sundry A Howl etc: > << > I have a big problem with this, Marines sole purpose, as in all infantry > > types in to find the enemy and kill or maim them. Any one else in the > > Marines is there to help them accomplish that task. > > No. The sole purpose of the Marines, as in all infantry types is to do > whatever the hell they are told to do. It doesn't have to be what they > signed up for. It almost certainly isn't going to be what they want to do.>> > > Excellent discourse (though not very related to FMA!) I agree the qeustion is interesting. Speaking totally from a concerned citizen's point of view, I would organize it thus: A) I agree with the notion that in a democracy that the military should take orders from the elected government. B) For military missions, elected officials should not stray too far from the basic notion of killing people and breaking things. C) Elected officials should not toss out considered military opinion as to its best way to accomplish its mission for PC vote getting posturing. In this regard I have substantial disagreement with the current US administration. D) It would also help the military in its role if the elected leaders acted in a manner that gave them (the leaders) worthy of respect. For example, although it has rapidly been forgotten here in the US, our president "wagged the dog" by with missle bombings timed to divert attention from his impeachment proceedings. The justifiable one (in Afghanistan) could and should have been done long before and the other one (Sudan) was soon thereafter revealed to be a flimsy pretext. Things like this have consequence at moments like the current one in the mid-east where memories are a bit longer than the spin cycle our news-as-entertainment media. Our military is commanded by a man who has given good reason to those with whom the US must deal to doubt his word and his integrity. When such a leader says to our military "Your job is to do what I tell you" , , , well no wonder we must now fill out ranks with high school drop outs-- a substantial change from 1992. > From: MikHam777@aol.com > Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2000 21:56:30 EDT > Subject: eskrima: attn: Crafty > > Mr. Denny, you mentioned that you were coming to Ohio to train w/ Dr. Gyi, > what dates? Would you ever be interested in doing a seminar in Columbus, Oh? > It's about 90 minutes from Athens. I am an Assistant Inst. at an IMB school > there, and we have alot of interest in the DBMA there. Thanks for your > time....... With my bags packed and two hours to go before leaving, some business problems came up that have forced me to cancel the trip and swallow the cost of the ticket-- its return date was late Tuesday and these matters have to be dealt with on Monday and Tuesday. :-((( However, I will be back out there again soon and perhaps something could be coordinated. Have whoever makes the decisions in these matters at your school get in touch with me. > From: Bladewerkr@aol.com > Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 01:09:01 EDT > Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #483 > > Dear Crafty, A tip my vet gave me for future reference: a mixture of baking > soda and hydrogen peroxide will neutralize the skunk odor. True aroma > therapy > > Bear Thank you ! This is interesting! The last time Moro got a skunk, the repeated baths in strong substances gave him some skin troubles--and didn't work all that well! Intuitively your suggestion sounds appealing. What if anything do I need to know about mixing it up, diluting it etc? (Even by my standards this is a bit far from FMA so feel free to e-mail me privately.) Woof, Crafty Dog ------------------------------ From: SolAndes@aol.com Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 14:33:24 EDT Subject: eskrima: Bando Forum Hi, Phil Dunlap, my Bando instructor and lineage holder of the Kachin Systems of Burmese arts, recently put a discussion forum on his website for people wishing to discuss Burmese Bando with him. It's at: www.afs.f2s.com Sincerely, Ken Andes ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 13:38:58 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Gathering Report Part Two A Howl of Greeting to All: In conversation with Top Dog last week, he noted that many of the stickfights seemed to fall into either of two distinctive categories-- stickfights or groundfights. In the latter category Island Dog and C-Mako Dog's fight turned into an exciting and high level leg and foot lock war on the ground with the seeming upper hand changing hands several times. At the other end of the spectrum were the staff fights-- pretty hard to enter to grappling range there! As always Island Dog was in the thick of it, as were True Dog and Dog Benjamin. Dog Gregory took a well broken hand in stride. The interplay between long-range oriented players and mid-range oriented players in these fights caught my attention. There's A LOT of power in staff fight and the risks and consequences can make for a very intense experience-- so much learning to be had in such a short time! I an glad that staff fights seem to have taken root and appear regularly at every Gathering. Speaking of Island Dog, in addition to a very busy and varied day at the Gathering, the very next week in the over thirty age bracket (he's 44 now I think) he won his weight division at the Machado no gi Submission Tournament. Dog Steve took two of Top Dog's best shots and not only survived but stayed in front of him. I checked in with him after each, but he answered clearly and enthusiastically. Several of the fighters are starting to really show some good footwork, and the focus under fire to put together some nice combinations. Some really good FMA was on display in several of the fights IMHO. Top Dog was in as good a form as I have seen him in several years. How he does it with a long-hours job, fatherhood, etc impresses the hell out of me. IMHO he remains the dominant stickfighter of our time and place. I could go on and on because it was a Really Good Day and one to treasure and everyone there seemed to connect with it really well. I'd like to share something that one of the cherries wrote to me: "I think my training has changed mentally now that I see what all the sumbrada and carenza is supposed to prepare me for. I now know what it feels like to train with someone who will really open up and go for it, witch is something I usually only have with one friend here, and he does not practice Kali, so his stick work is much easier for me to deal with. I also know my limits more, I have found that my comfort tolerance is much lower than my ability to sustain a hit and not get hurt. (Well said! C.) I took the hardest shots I have ever taken at the Gathering, and although some left lasting bruises, I was OK even immediately after them. I think the most important thing it did was let me know my training is progressing well. I know I have volumes more to learn, and each chapter to perfect, but I know I am doing well. It was an amazing experience, and I look forward to the next one." For each man the consciousness of all this contact will be different, but it sounds to me like this man is well begun on his path. And as each man leaves the traditional sushi dinner afterwards and heads back to his semi-normal life, I suspect he too is already thinking of the next Gathering. So much learning to manifest in the mere 7 months of training until the next Gathering! And with the wordless place accessed within oneself through the touchstone of that experience, so different a way of living life. Woof, Crafty Dog Guiding Force of the Dog Brothers _______ A Howl from the Council of Elders of the Dog Brothers: By the powers invested in us by us, we declare: Tate XXXX is now "Dog Tate" Dog Steve Shelburne is now "Candidate Iron Dog" Dog Gregory Van Zuyen is now "Candidate name to be chosen later" Dog Benjamin Rittner is now "Candidate Lonely Dog" And Candidate Nick "C-Raw Dog" Sacoulas has now attained the grand exalted status of "Raw Dog" (As I write this, my Cindy is not at home and I do not have access to our complete records. If I missed anyone, don't worry, just remind me and I'll make the correction.) Woof, Crafty Dog-Guiding Force Salty Dog-Silent Force Top Dog-Fighting Force ------------------------------ From: tenrec Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 04:33:57 +0100 Subject: eskrima: Greetings and Salutations Mr. Hartman! Mr. Tim Hartman wrote: > I don't understand how this topic keeps coming up? It doesn't matter >what title we use, but what we make of it. We in Modern Arnis don't get this title when we reach a certan rank. It is after displaying leadership abliities, only then if the Professor thinks we are worthy he will bestow this title on some one. >I will say this again and hopefully for the last time. We in the IMAF >are given these titles by the grandmaster. If you have a problem with it, get out from behind your computors and confront the grandmaster with your isses >Face to Face. If not then maybe you should keep our opinions to yourself. Greetings Mr. Hartman: I agree fully with you that the "titles" thread comes up far too often on this list. However... 1. I believe that when this or ANY topic is brought up, "open season" is declared and anyone and everyone (and his kid brother) are allowed to comment, agree, disagree, or otherwise react to the topic until the list owner says to take it to private emails and move on. 2. IMHO, topics are best discussed in a forum such as this or other digests, out in the open, rather than have people talk about it behind the backs of the people who may be involved... 3. From the posts I read, all the posters were respectful. None of the posters questioned, or challenged, the skills, competence, or character of the "title-bearers" themselves, nor were there questions of or challenges to the schools, styles or organizations represented by the "title-bearers." 4. The discussion was on meaning of the different titles given. I believe it started with "guro" and recently gravitated towards "datu." IMHO I thought it would be an opportunity to discuss the political and cultural importance attached to the word "datu," as it is used in the Phil., before the FMAers started to use the word in their own context. This was meant to be informative, and I kept it short because I remember that this was discussed before in previous digests. The title "datu" was used in the past to mean a "chief or leader of a tribe or people"; it is STILL IN USE TODAY in the Southern (Mindanao) regions of the Phil., mainly among the Muslim Filipinos. I understand also that there is a government agency that regulates the use of this titles in the Phil. (I will double-check on this.) I believed that it was important to share this info with "the rest of the Digest." As we have read there continues to be questions about all things FMA related, and in this case, things Filipino (in general). Having followed this digest for some time now, I have noticed that very few of the posters have a grasp or knowledge of Fil. culture, history or daily life in the PI; their only exposure is from the FMAs, or from forums such as these. There is some confusion at times, and even misinformation regarding Fil. topics, and this digest is a good place to discuss them and hopefully together we can clear up a number of them. I personally have no problem with you, Herr Knuettel or any Arnis practitioner using "datu" or any other title your organization deems fit. It is Mr. Remy Presas' prerogative to do so within his organization. And I appreciate both your and Herr Knuettel's position on this matter. I DO feel that people should know what it means and how it is used in the Phil. setting. I also feel that, as the newer and younger FMAers join this list, they should feel free to ask any question regarding any topic. I can see this "datu" question coming up again (and again) in the future. >If you have a problem with it, get >out from behind your computors and confront the grandmaster with your >isses >Face to Face. If not then maybe you should keep our opinions to yourself. I would like to meet Mr. Presas face-to-face, NOT in confrontation, but in a peaceful and civilized conversation...I have seen him demo in the distant past, and have read testimony on this and other digests that he (still) is an honorable and reasonable man...it would truly be a privilege to meet him, as I too studied Modern Arnis many years ago, and I would really like to ask him a whole bunch of q's. Sadly, he never seems to get to our neck of the woods anymore... You seemed a little irritated in your last post. I can only hope you will show a little more patience and tolerance with us (the rest of the digest), as befits a true and wise Datu... Sorry this was so long......here's hoping for continued peaceful discussions on the list...and for a "subway series"... tenrec (plain old tenrec) tenrec@avcorner.com ------------------------------ From: "Steven C. Drape" Date: Sun, 15 Oct 2000 21:40:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #484 Service Brought To You By http://WWW.DWP.NET - -------------------------------------------- >Unless I missed something, no one really commented on the substance of Sifu >Simonet's instruction....... Sifu S. was totally >upfront regarding his lineage and made very clear that the tapes were his >interpretation of Silat filtered through his unique set of conceptual >lenses. He advised the viewer to consult Pak Victor or Guro Bob (both of >whom receive all credit for his Silat development) if they want simon-pure >Silat. Well said. We might also remember that not too long ago, Maurice and Paul de Thouars made a very public statement about the lack of a serak/sera lineage of their brother, Victor de Thouars, who has criticised Mr. Simonet for doing the very thing his brothers accuse him of. We ought to confine our remarks to the skills shown, and leave the politics to each organization's internal handling. Steve Steve_kbs@dwp.net http://www.geocities.com/eartes/KBS_System_index.html ------------------------------ From: "Jonathan Broster" Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 12:09:50 GMT Subject: eskrima: Simonet tapes Hi I finally sat down and watched the entire 3 hours of the "Silat Concepts" tapes. The two tapes are very different; the first is a demonstration of the first 6 jurus of the serak system, it is very clearly presented with good use of camera angles etc and very easy to follow along with. The second tape shows the TIGA and PANTJAR footwork pattern, and then combines the whole lot. I am not a student of Seral/bukti negara, but I have seen a lot of instructional videos and feel that the information presented here is done as well as almost any other tape series. With regard to giving credit where it is due, Mr Simonet mentions both Pak Victor and Guru Vanatta and says the interested parties should see them if the y want to further their knowledge of silat. I will post a full review soon Mabuhay Jon http://www.geocities.com/jonbroster _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 16 Oct 2000 6:49:48 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #485 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.