From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #494 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sun, 22 Oct 2000 Vol 07 : Num 494 In this issue: eskrima: Inayan Eskrima seminar in Paris FRANCE eskrima: Re: Eskrima Seminar for Tournament Fighters eskrima: Eskrima Seminar for Tournament Fighters eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #493 eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource An open FMA discussion forum provided in memory of Suro Mike Inay, Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?St=E9phane_Fernandez?= Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 23:16:35 +0100 Subject: eskrima: Inayan Eskrima seminar in Paris FRANCE Hello to all, Just to inform you that we will be hosting Masirib Guro Steve Klement for an Inayan Eskrima seminar here in Paris, France. Masirib Guro Steve Klement has been involved in Inayan for the last 15 years and is certified by the late Suro Mike Inay. The seminar will be held the 18th and 19th of november in Paris. It will cover different aspects of Inayan Eskrima (single stick, double stick, knife and empty hands) People interested should contact me at fernast@bigfoot.com or call me at (33 1) 42 33 34 39. Best regards Stéphane Fernandez ------------------------------ From: Jivita@aol.com Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 20:26:50 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Eskrima Seminar for Tournament Fighters Eskrima Seminar for Tournament Fighters October 29th, 2000 This seminar will focus upon the skills and techniques for improving one's ability and stamina in competition, utilizing regulation armor. Matches will be conducted and scored according to regulation WEKAF fighting rules. Techniques for disarming and sweeps (ala the "old" WEFAF rules) will be demonstrated. This seminar will be instructed by Guro Reginald Burford who holds national and international titles in Eskrima competition. Guro Burford has instructed Eskrima for over 15 years and is qualified to referee and judge for WEKAF Tournaments. Seminar Date: October 29th, 2000 Location: Oakland Eskrima Club (formerly the Berkeley Eskrima Club) 5523 San Pablo Ave. Oakland, Ca. Time: 9am - 3:30pm Cost: $55.00 $10.00 Spectator Fee $20.00 Video Use Fee Participant MUST bring their own regulation armor and gear, mouth pieces and athletic cup. Seminar will be limited to 15 people. This is training! Please bring a good attitude and leave the egos at home. ------------------------------ From: Jivita@aol.com Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2000 20:31:47 EDT Subject: eskrima: Eskrima Seminar for Tournament Fighters More info at: http://members.aol.com/ekaliarnis/oec.html ------------------------------ From: "hudginsg" Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 17:32:29 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #493 > However, the surfeit or proliferation of FMA wannabes > and instant instructors, as well as the rise of some > masters or instructors who are sad to say, out for a > fast buck, has also compromised the quality of the > Kali/arnis that Americans and other foreigners are > exposed to. And recently, also Filipinos. Some arnis > styles have diluted their martial art techniques with > movements, stances, and other elements that derogate > from their Filipino-ness, ........... Some arnis styles make use of static > stances that make even the uninformed observer > conclude that arnis/Kali is just "karate with sticks". > Aside from static stances, there are blocks and > strikes that obviously show karate and jujitsu > influences that were artificially grafted (not > naturally, over the evolutionary processes of time and > history) by these newcomer masters who unfortunately, > rode on the upsurge of interest in FMA in the early > 80s and late > > 4. People both here and abroad are deprived of > realistic, practical techniques of self-preservation > when they are taught Kali moves that are more > chopsocky than genuine. They are being cheated of > their tuition when they sign up for martial arts > instruction that only teaches them watered-down > Kali/arnis moves that look more like karate and > jujitsu. This is not to say that karate and jujitsu > won't work; they also work and are impressive in their > own right. But to pass off as Kali/arnis moves that > are more properly karate or jujitsu is to cheat people > who have made the shift from these arts into the FMA. > They miss out on techniques that could very well save > their lives and limbs; hence they are fooled. > I would like to try and explain what I think has happened in some cases concerning the comments above. MY HUMBLE OPINION follows. Please excuse the rambling. Lets look at Japanese Karate, newer versions of Okinawa Karate and Tae Kwon Do. I pick these because they derive from the same sources and were adapted for teaching the masses. Karate was adapted to teach school children and the military. Hence the long lines of individuals equally spaced and performing to a cadence. (I am not speaking in absolutes. I know that there are many arts that work in groups performing "katas", some of which flow, but I am using these as examples) According to my understanding, Okinawa Karate (until they started teaching children) was not a group practice art. In other words, a class may have consisted of individuals working on different things. A makawari in the corner was used while others worked on kata or self defense or weapons. Very few tried to do it in a robotic fashion. I don't recall seeing older pictures (before world war II) of rows of karate practitioners. I don't believe that teaching mass groups really came around until people started teaching the classes in school and the military. Father to son type practice did not need the robotic practice of today. I started out in Isshinryu Karate. The way I was taught was like my instructor was taught. That is when we did kata as a group, one would lead you through the kata. You would follow, the leader, but there was no calling out of numbers during kata. It was not until I was exposed to other systems of karate that I ever saw a kata "done by the numbers." (I do admit that we did basics in a repetative counting method and kata was paused so that the group could catch up and do the kata together) When the basic katas were taught to school kids, you had to stop to correct the mistakes. So what did you do? You froze your stance until the instructor corrected you. Then you punched and froze while the instructor corrected. To make it look better they did it by counting each movement and freezing at the completion of each move, until the instructor called the next move. If I may without being disrepectful use a local Shotokan club as an example of what I am talking about. Shotokan is a great art. Its power and traditional approach makes it a highly acceptable art. I go by and watch a class here in town every now and then. But for my tastes, it is robotic. Not because that is the way the art is suppose to be, but because that is the way it is taught and the instructors now think that is the way it is suppose to be. I do admit that most of his students are lower belts (green and under). I am not picking on Shotokan, I am just using this as an example. Tae Kwon Do, and other karate arts became similar when they were modified to teach the masses, particularly when taught to the masses for cash. This Shotokan instructor is good, very good. I would not want to face him. But he stands up and tells everyone, that you can't have power unless you have a good base, you have to do it this way. His explanation of contraction and expansion when doing a technique is enlighting and makes a lot of sense. But it is not the only way. Example. You can't have your rear foot come up when you punch, etc. etc. etc. (Tell that to Mike Tyson.) Suppose you had a karate or Tae Kwon Do instructor that was exposed to Arnis and he tried to incorporate a few techniques. You would think he would likely apply them in the context of the way he was taught by his Arnis instructor. If he has an extensive background in "traditional" karate, he might not empty his cup first. If he did not empty his cup before sampling the tea, the new tea would be changed by the flavor of his old tea. If he were to teach techniques from Arnis, he would have to back off many of the principles that he has learned for "proper technique" from his style of karate. This hypothetical instructor does not recognize that there are many roads to the mountain top or recognizes that there are other roads, but does not wish his students to investigate them. (There are many dojos, dojangs that do not allow their students to visit or participate in any other style) To keep the student that wants to learn the double sticks he saw in to "Enter the Dragon" the hypothetical instructor may have to learn and incorporate stick techniques to add to his list of items listed in the yellow pages. He might do this to "compete" with other martial arts groups in his city, or he might believe he is improving these techniques by applying karate principles to them. In short, if this hypothetical instructor were to teach the kali, escrima, arnis techniques, they would conflict with what he has been indoctrinated to believe is the "one true way". Obviously since he knows the "one true way", either Arnis techniques would be better if applied in a manner consistent with the power techniques that he was taught and should be a) modified to a 1 freeze, 2 freeze, 3 freeze routine for power, and to build the proper stances, etc, etc. because this is "the way" or b) they are just easier to teach to his "karate mindset" students, or c) he has not overcome his basic teachings himself, or d) he knows the difference, but to mass market the art, he needs to teach using a successful model, such as the karate arts and the manner in which they are taught today. This group dynamics that says everything has to be done so that a mass group can perform at the same time with everybody doing everything on time and in unison makes teaching easier. It also takes up a lot of the class time. Make a move - 1/2 second correcting 3 or 4 students 30 seconds. Second move 1/2 second. Correcting students 40 seconds with a 30 second demonstration of why this move is so strong or deadly. Soon class is over, No body broke a sweat. No body has any bruises. Student retention is high and self confidence is great because the instructor has told you the technique you just learned is deadly. The instructors pocket book is full because not only does he teach deadly empty hand skills, you have become ten times more deadly because you can do it with a stick. You are happy to pay for the knowledge of these deadly skills. You in turn go out in the real world thinking you are a real killer and you should register your hands as deadly weapons. Lets face it, you get 20 to 30 people doing a routine (kata) with out calling out the numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, etc and it looks like a real mess. This does not impress parents and audiences that have no clue as to what martial arts means (war arts). They believe martial arts is this cute thing that the group does together. Each movement has to be done in time with the instructor's cadence. Try to teach 50 to 150 people an escrima form? Well if you are a "stop and go" martial artist that teaches "groups" of students, you don't teach the flow method of eskrima, kali since that is not the way you teach karate. Don't get me wrong, I have picked up a lot concerning body mechanics and positioning for proper power techniques just from watching a shotakan class, but it is taught to the exclusion of other methods. This Karate group has a decent group of students. The ad in the yellow pages advertises "A Family Karate Club" ... "No sparring gear to buy" (Code for there is not contact in this class) I have not even seen one step sparring in this class. If you try and do kali in a cadence fashion you destroy the art. Sure, Dan Inosanto calls out a cadence, but when he does it, he calls "one". then the class goes through 2, 3,4 5, or moves at their own speed. Kali is not a mass art. (Again IMHO) Gary H ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2000 15:32:01 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #494 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.