From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #499 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 25 Oct 2000 Vol 07 : Num 499 In this issue: eskrima: Kali: the Mother art eskrima: Re: Speed/Power eskrima: Speed/Power Re: eskrima: Kali: the Mother art eskrima: FMA TOURNAMENT IN NEW JERSEY! eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #498 eskrima: Mime-Version: 1.0 Re: eskrima: Mime-Version: 1.0 eskrima: Re: speed/power and the physics of it eskrima: Teaching Concepts eskrima: names n stuff eskrima: Thanks E-D & new site eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource An open FMA discussion forum provided in memory of Suro Mike Inay, Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tom Meadows" Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 16:21:03 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Kali: the Mother art Several Issues ago David Eke wrote: Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 16:25:53 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Speed/Power "Himalayan holy man once told me: "If you want to understand this (situation)study physics." He didn't say go pray and meditate, try harder, whatever. Physics baby, physics." Reminds me of what a Kuntao master told us once...."It is all physics, geometry, and anatomy.... study and practice" Michael ___________________________________________________________________________ Visit http://www.visto.com/info, your free web-based communications center. Visto.com. Life on the Dot. ------------------------------ From: gints@att.net Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 23:35:01 +0000 Subject: eskrima: Speed/Power > Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Tues, 24 Oct 2000 Vol 07 : Num 498 > From: Mikal Keenan > Date: 24 Oct 00 12:25:54 CDT > Subject: eskrima: Speed/Power > > > we want to be fast...but it sacrifices power. > Not so amigo. > > > We want to hit hard...but it sacrifices speed. > Not so amigo. Perhaps the original post deserves some clarification. Power generally requires a greater body/appendage commitment and thus a greater recovery time. A simple comparison is the Western boxer's jab (lead weapon, straight punch) and the cross (rear weapon, straight punch.) The lead in practice is known to be faster and less powerful than the cross. The technique varies among boxers in a way that some jabs are actually slower than some crosses, and some jabs are more powerful than some crosses. However, it's important to analyze the body commitment. More body commitment is generally harder to recover from. Test your statements. I'll guess your results. Let me know if your results differ. ***** Multiple Strikes **** Hit a target as hard as you can ten times. Hit a target as fast as you can ten times. 1) Your hard hits take longer than your fast hits. Thus, overall speed is compromised by power. 2) You fast hits don't hurt as much as your hard hits. Thus, power is compromised by overall speed. Thus, overall speed trades for power. ***** Two Strikes **** Hit a target twice hard. Hit a target twice fast. (What's the difference between fast and hard? Just think about the overall completion time.) Your hard hit actually takes more time to complete because it takes more time to displace a target than to touch it. If you want to damage bone and tissue, you have to displace (mash, squish, pound, obliterate, etc.) some body matter to destroy it. > It's all in the phycis muchacho. As long as we's in this universe... > > Force = Mass * Acceleration True. However, consider that acceleration varies during the strike. A lot of karate people seem to believe that their max power is at the end of their "air "strike rather than before it. That is, they believe that the most kinetic energy is delivered when the fist stops. That's like stopping the baseball bat just before it hits the ball. No one hits home runs that way. That baseball technique is used for "bunting." > ... in other words, roughly ... > > Power = Weight * Speed True. However, consider that speed varies during the strike. > This takes us back to why a good teacher will train us to move the underlying > vehicle a certain way in order to get controllable speed and power > efficiently. Otherwise we get caught up in the feeling of exerting > powerfully, what we feel, instead of what the person on the receiving end > feels. Well put. Many people feel power from their own body tension. If that tension reduces your speed, your power is also reduced even though the slower strike is a lot of work for you. > The more we tune our body mechanics, the more we'll find the ability > to transmit force through our tools. Agreed. Training can teach you to gain both speed and power. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 17:07:18 PDT Subject: Re: eskrima: Kali: the Mother art > Let me address several issues here. I spent ten days in Cebu in 1989 and > 98% of the people I met such as taxi drivers, store guards, or bartenders > had never heard of Eskrima. Or the Canete family for that matter. I > didn't take this to mean that the arts didn't exist , just that they were > not general knoweledge. Much can be lost in one generation. Just a short story to throw in here... A few years ago I went to send a Christmas card to Cacoy Canete at his home in Cebu, however, I did not have his address. So I addressed it as: Cacoy Canete Doce Pares Cebu City Republic of the Philippines And he received it!!! Before Christmas!!! :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: SolAndes@aol.com Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 19:59:27 EDT Subject: eskrima: FMA TOURNAMENT IN NEW JERSEY! Hi, Just a reminder that there will be a full-contact (WEKAF rules) sparring and forms tournament for men, women, and children this Saturday, Oct. 28, at Rutgers University in New Brunswick. The tournament will run from 10am to 4pm and is being hosted by Guro Dong Cuesta of Doce Pares. All are invited to compete and/or watch. Feel free to drop me a line if you need more info or directions. Ken Andes ------------------------------ From: Bladewerkr@aol.com Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 20:08:48 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #498 Re Openness the American way Well IMHO it is our tip of the iceberg. We live in a rude society, something that has been brought about by the replacement of personal responsibility, with litigation. I did a thesis in college titled "The fall of Western Civilization and the Banning of the Code Duello." We live in a society that enacts law after law to take care of things that should be handled mano de mano. An armed, warrior society is a polite society. When you realize that rudeness and improper conduct not only will not be tolerated but the consequence of such behavior is swords for two, coffee for one, people have a tendency to behave better toward their fellow man, at least the armed ones. As my grandfather use to say, courtesy, respect and soap are cheap but separate real men from their counterfeits. Bear ------------------------------ From: Luis Pellicer Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 09:07:44 +0800 Subject: eskrima: Mime-Version: 1.0 >Note that >Pekiti-Tirsia is now "Kali", also >"Kali Illustrisimo" does exist. Bago lang ang pangalan Kali Illustrisimo. Noon Olistrisimo Escrima ang tawag. Galing sa mga estudiante ni Tatang yung mga pangalan. Si Tatang mismo sinabi na walang pangalan ang "art" niya, di naman kailangan, basta patay ang kalaban. Luis Lema Lightning Scientific Arnis Illustrisimo Style Escrima LPIII ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 20:57:55 PDT Subject: Re: eskrima: Mime-Version: 1.0 > Bago lang ang pangalan Kali Illustrisimo. Noon Olistrisimo Escrima ang > tawag. Galing sa mga estudiante ni Tatang yung mga pangalan. Si Tatang > mismo sinabi na walang pangalan ang "art" niya, di naman kailangan, basta > patay ang kalaban. Once again for the rest of us... :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Chad Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2000 21:21:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: speed/power and the physics of it >> Power = Weight * Speed So if Weight x Speed = Power, how do I get more power? If I increase the weight, then the speed will derease. If I want to dramatically increase my speed, then I must decrease the weight to be faster. I think it looks like this: 2s x 2w = 4p ; 1s x 3w = 3p ; and 3s x 1w = 3p. s=speed, w=weight, and p=power. In the first 2x2, physics shows us that we come up with 4. In the second and third equation, physics shows that if we increase one of the attributes by 1 and decrease the other attribute by 1, we end up with both equations being less than the original sum. ===== Chad chad@fullcontacthi.com Full Contact Stickfighting Hawaii http://www.fullcontacthi.com http://www.egroups.com/group/stickfighting __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: EGJundis@aol.com Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 03:58:26 EDT Subject: eskrima: Teaching Concepts Howdy Folks, I write and post on several martial arts list. I thought you might appreciate this. I invite people to reopen the thread on teaching distinctions. I am particularly interested in sparing progressions and multiple opponent drills. Anyone willing to share? Elrik Jundis In a message dated 10/23/00 3:56:54 AM, MATeach@egroups.com writes: << Message: 1 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2000 02:02:54 -0000 From: "Kimberly Hedges" Subject: Recuperation from Brain Injury Hello, I am currently a Brown Belt in TKD and I have just started a beginning class for adults only (My instructor wants his Adult Brown Belts to teach their own class before going for their Black). The very first student I get is a 40+ year old male recovering from a parasitic infection that damaged nerve endings in his brain. For over a year this guy could barely talk, he could not walk and his family had to feed him. He came into the classroom (at the YMCA) not to take TKD, but to practice jumping rope. As I stretched I watched his clumsy attempts to jump over the rope, and he was having a lot of trouble walking on a low balance beam. This went on for about 20 minutes before I said anything more that hello. After a while I said that Martial Arts can help with coordination. Before I know it we are working on stances and the beginnings of the first form. Please don't think I am disrespecting my first student by talking about the problems of his 'illness'; he is very open about it and I am looking for help. We have been at it for three weeks and we are still working on the first form (actually, the first three moves of the first form). He is having trouble getting the signals from his brain to his muscles. But, we are making progress and he is slowly regaining skills that are needed outside the dodging. Does anybody have a similar experience who is willing to offer some practical suggestions? I have talked to my instructor and he is glad that I am there to help this guy, but he has never had a student who has this kind of obstacle to overcome. KO >> Kimberly, First off kudos for taking the initiative to talk to your student. You have already made a big difference in his life. One of the tools I have developed for working with individuals and groups is to use 5" minute lessons. When I do this I have intent: I am fully present to the content of my lesson and with the interaction and feedback of the student. The 5" minute time limitation also forces me to be concise and clear. This is a great way to develop intent and focus for the student(s) and myself. I present the information with one intent: they get it-they understand it. The next step is to give the student a time to play with the new material. In the experimentation period they develop a sense of personal ownership for the material. As they develop mastery with the material via repeat application and testing you can guide the process through new avenues of inquiry and the timely sharing of your own insights. The key is to keep the process theirs. If you want them to have ownership of the material you have to give it to them right off and give them a space to experience that ownership. A common down fall to not doing this is having one of those students who is always asking, "Am I doing this right?". The above process is similar to teaching structures used in a Montessori classroom. Several years ago I worked as a administrator at a Montessori school. The students where ages 18 months to 12 Years. Our average 6 year old was already writing sentences, could do long division and multiplication. Our average 11 year old scored at the 10 grade level in Math and Sciences on standardized test. Regardless of age our students had a uncanny level of focus as well highly developed interaction skills that allowed team learning. I mention this to show the effectiveness of this style of teaching in a venue other than martial arts. Most importantly this method of sharing knowledge produces students who are self-motivated and passionate about learning. This is also not unlike the type of teaching that CAN happen at martial arts seminars. I am also alluding to the fact that there are many more distinctions to sharing knowledge, for develop martial attributes, and producing human interaction that has this type of learning be effective. Create a intent for your teaching: regardless if it is to create a capable martial artist, facilitate the rewiring of their nervous system, or just building self-esteem. Considering that you are starting off into uncharted territory this will guide you and keep you on track as you find what works and what doesn't work. The majority of my students over the years have been highly motivated college students and/or martial artist with previous training. I have also taught children, youth in the juvenile justice system, and individuals with physical and learning handicaps: what is appropriate in one setting is totally inappropriate in another. The key is breaking down the information into digestible, nutritious, and palatable components. Create lessons that are easily understandable, that build a foundation for future growth, and that are fun. Once again I ask the question: what is your intent for you student? A place to look for material is to find what first attracted you to your art and create a lesson from that. Your art is TKD, so I might assume that it was the kicking skills that first attracted you. A possible place to start for your student is balancing on one leg while practicing low level kicks (e.g., side kicks aimed at the shin). The first level of the lesson may be balance. They might need to start off holding the wall or a chair. Then have them try it with their eyes closed to start developing a kinesthetic sense. After they can do this without support have them try working on a static target like the leg of a chair: this is a controlled process (without power) for developing spatial awareness, aim, and confidence. From there you can move on to hand held targets and the development of timing, speed, and power. Another place to look is what Jeet Kun Do folks would call attributes: flow, intent, footwork, handwork, etc.: every system has their own way of developing such things. Some systems develop particular attributes better than others. The challenge might be that you will have to look for training exercises outside of your current training paradigm. At one point in time, my sole intent as a martial arts instructor was to create practitioners who could replicate the system that I had learned. I did this by following the same process that I had learned with. It was my belief that the way I learned was the one and only way. The system I am referring to is Eskrima Serrada: a Filipino martial art based entirely on interactions between two armed opponents. (Empty hand translations of the techniques come later on in Serrada Training.) Considering the different groups that I have worked with starting folks off with weapon counters day one was not always a good idea. You have a excellent opportunity to expand your understanding of your art and your abilities as a instructor and practitioner. Over the years my methods and intent have evolved with my experience. I look forward to your sharing of what works for you and what you develop. If you have more specific questions, just ask. Sincerely, Elrik Jundis Director/ Head Instructor School of Pilipino Martial Arts ps. If you share this with others, I request you keep the full copy intact and acknowledge the source. Thank You. ------------------------------ From: tenrec Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 09:01:50 +0100 Subject: eskrima: names n stuff Bladewerkr@aol.com >If one person calls it Kali >another Escrima and yet another Arnis what >does it matter? So we all agree to call it Arnis from now on? : 8 ) Seriously, most Filipinos you run into couldn't care less, and those who do are generally flexible about the terms you use ("all the same banana")...and a few will retort "Oh yeah? Democrats, Republicans , Reform Party, Libertarians...all the same...what does it matter?" (although on second thought this might not be such a good example...hmmm...)...sort of political.... I believe a person will tend to use the name he/she first heard or grew up (or grew up in the art) hearing...I kind of liked something I read on the web (was it on the FMA FAQ?): "Arnis or Arnis de Mano is used in the Philippines, mainly (but not exclusively) in Luzon; Escrima or Eskrima also in the Philippines, mainly in the Visayas; and Kali is used primarily by JKD/FMA practitioners..." or words to that effect... Ernest Westbrook wrote: >The FMAs are not pure and have not been for >several centuries. This purity thing probably applies to the other Asian MAs as well...I wonder what the author of that post meant by "pure?" How does anyone define a "pure martial art?" Anyone? Anyone? >There is a Pangasinan Arnis instructor, >17 miles away in the next town. Guess where I train 3 times weekly? It may or may not be "...pure and original..." FMAs, but it is most definately Filipino in origin although it is >not a Visayan style. Gee, and here I thought you were a Muslim Filipino (from your private email to me)... I wouldn't give too much thought to the Luzon vs. Visayas comments, IMHO...the only time I hear about this "issue" (or "non-issue") is on the Internet, practically never from Filipinos...the only Luzon/Visayas Arnis related q's I hear are usually along the lines of "where did you get your rattan from? Oh yeah, really? Does your rattan stick(s) have a brother/sister/other relative he won't miss? (translation: are there more where they came from?) Good rattan is so hard to come by... >>I am happy with what I have been taught. It works for me We should all be so lucky... >Don't get me wrong, Isshin-Ryu is a good art, but the Pangasinan Arnis opened new areas Pangasinan? If you don't mind, what school/style, what part of Pangasinan? Mr. Pellicer wrote > ...I have talked to actually find it amusing (very simple folk with simple needs) >that there are people who will teach others who they do not know well. >It's like arming a potential enemy, they say. How often we forget that Arnis was really a family affair.... tenrec tenrec@avcorner.com ------------------------------ From: "Phil Tong" Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 03:18:02 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Thanks E-D & new site Just wanted to say thanks to the many here again, you are always in my thoughts as I forge this road back into martial arts practice. It would be my honor if you would visit a new homepage I put up. I've posted some really old photos from the 70s when I was still a runt (not much has changed ;) so please don't laugh too much! Seriously, it has been a long road from promising young competitor, suddenly to paraplegic and can't walk, to whatever state I'm in now (middle-aged gym warrior will do I guess?). Anyways, I share with you my life and will update site with more current photos, for sure some will have FMA as many of my featured links do! Please do sign my guestbook and feel free to read/post to the mini-message board. Thank you and I hope you enjoy it, Phil http://tzuki.homestead.com/ ps. due to scheduling conflicts I will have to wait until next year to take GM Ernesto's seminar :( But I will make it! ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2000 7:33:16 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #499 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.