From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #507 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sat, 28 Oct 2000 Vol 07 : Num 507 In this issue: Re: eskrima: Rewriting history eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #506 eskrima: Re: Power eskrima: Advertisement eskrima: On Tacosa, Sanchez, FMA & Answering Machines eskrima: Kali - again eskrima: Answers to questions eskrima: Use of the term "Kali" eskrima: Kung Fu eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #505 eskrima: Kali or not Kali??? eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #505 eskrima: Hitting Hard...Very Barbaric...Of Gentlemen or of Warriors? eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1100 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource An open FMA discussion forum provided in memory of Suro Mike Inay, Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and online search the last five years worth of digest issues at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: gints@att.net Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 21:23:07 +0000 Subject: Re: eskrima: Rewriting history > From: "Bill Lowery" > Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 19:44:02 +0100 > Subject: eskrima: Rewriting history > > >They feel that Americans rewrite history the way it suits them (and maybe > whats worse is, you feed it back to them as FACTS).< > > What, you mean like the recent film which showed the USA retrieving the > enigma machine which helped shorten the second world war (it was actually us > Brits - precisley a young man from just up the road to myself in Wallsend). > > Americans like to view world history as their history, with other > countries/cultures being secondary to their own. Recognise this fact and > move on. Let them deal with it on thier own. I am impressed by how accurately people living outside of America have mastered the intricacies and values of American culture by watching US movies, TV series, pop music and other entertainment products produced by an industry that exists for profit rather than education. ------------------------------ From: Taojen1@aol.com Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:26:28 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #506 In a message dated 10/27/00 5:00:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Indeed that would truely be interesting, but if they ventured to take a look at the water, they would see that the river flows from Kansas to Oklahoma to Arkansas, to the Mississippi River, but I would never expect a Jayhawk to be able to read a map (ha ha) GO SOONERS >> Leave it to a Sooner to nitpick geographical minutia. BTW it's "truly" but hey let's not quibble over something mundane like spelling. ;^)))) Buddy Kansas-the gateway to Nebraska! ------------------------------ From: "Randy Brannan" Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 14:23:23 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Power At 10:36 AM 10/27/00 -0400, you wrote: Mikal Keenan wrote: >My purpose is not to >argue physics, but to promote finer sense in training and personal >development. A very worthy goal Mik. Good luck in acheiving it. Take care, Randy B. ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 17:58:14 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Advertisement A Howl of Greeting to All: The second tape in the DBMA series is now available! It is titled "A Dog Brothers' Gathering of the Pack". The tape is organized to show what a typical Gathering is like from beginning to end and contains selected fights from 1994 through 1999. After the opening talk, there are some rounds of knife, including 2X2 fights and then directly to the stickfights. Not all of the fights are advanced fights, some are intermediate- the idea is to give more of a sense of the range during the course of a day. There are single stick fights, double stick fights, stick versus double nunchakus, and staff fights. There are Lots of Fights! The tape concludes with the fighters circle at the end of the day. Total time is 70 minutes. The cost is $30 plus S&H. Go to the catalog page on our website www.dogbrothers.com for details. If Cindy hasn't gotten the form updated by the time you get to it, just print the one for "The Grandfathers Speak" and cross out the name and write in "A Dog Brothers' Gathering of the Pack" and that will do just fine. Woof Crafty Dog DBIMA ------------------------------ From: Alex France Date: 27 Oct 2000 21:06:17 -0700 Subject: eskrima: On Tacosa, Sanchez, FMA & Answering Machines This correspondence ties together several things: the recently announced Tacosa seminar in Chicago, Ray's recent question, "Do folks find that using an answering machine works well?", Master Snooky Sanchez, and an event that took place some years ago. A few years ago, when we (a diverse group of FMA practitioners) still had the Philippine Martial Arts Academy & Cultural Center (in Vallejo, CA), Master Jimmy Tacosa and several of his students traveled from far away to kick off the Academy's "Spotlight on the Masters" seminar series (goal was to bring in and highlight one true master from far away places each month; i.e., bring the "mountains" to the local people). Jimmy paid respect to his teachers by sending all proceeds not to his teachers, but to the villages where his teachers originally came from. I thought that was neat. And then another neat thing happened. At the get-together right after Jimmy's seminar, there was a very friendly, spontaneous, sharing of the arts (impromptu discussions and demos!) by various masters and teachers who happened to be there that day: Master Snooky Sanchez and his beautiful daughter (name escapes me, but her impact doesn't --she had quite an effect on many of us!), Master Uddin and his students, Guro Mark Stewart from the Lucay-Lucay group (Boxer Rebellion gym in Los Angeles), Professor Emil Bautista (since promoted to Grandmaster by Sijo Emperado) of the local Kajukenbo school, Guro Alex Ercia from the Philippines (Modern Arnis), Ed Castillo (student of Edgar Sulite and Herman Suwanda), and others. Some, like Guro Stewart and GM Bautista, had come to take Jimmy's seminar. Others, like the Sanchez family and the IESA group, just dropped by to visit and say hello to Jimmy. Now, how does this tie in with Ray's question? Well, sometime afterwards, one of the blackbelt instructors from the Tacosa group left a message on our answering machine, saying that he had decided to stay in the West Coast and was wondering if he could teach there? Sure! We would have loved to have him, but he forgot to leave his phone number! And no one we knew, knew how to contact him. To this day, I can't help but think that he may have thought we weren't interested because we didn't call him back... I hope he reads this or someone tells him. Ditto for a student of "the only female FMA grandmaster in the States" inquiring whether we would be interested in including his teacher in our "Spotlight on the Masters" seminar series. Sure! What a catch! (She was the one who later set up the FMA Hall of Fame, in Texas, to which Grandmaster Ramiro Estalilla, also featured in our "Spotlight on the Masters" seminar series, and others were invited.) But this caller too, forgot to leave a number... And at that time, no one we knew, knew her number! One other problem with answering machines: When a caller does remember to leave a phone number, sometimes the number is wrong or that part of the message containing the phone number would be garbled --despite the fact that our answering service was provided by PacBell. Because of problems like the above, it may be better not to have an answering machine. On a humorous note, Master Snooky Sanchez, visiting from Hawaii, was quite delighted to find a place where FMA guros and masters of different styles taught their own arts and at the same time helped each other out (a recent discussion topic on the Digest). He picked up copies of all our flyers and announced he would tell all his friends in Hawaii about our place. He must have, because soon after we received a "cease and desist" order from Grandmaster Ben Largusa to stop all advertising for the Villabrille Kali (that word again) class that was being given by one of his students who had left the official Villabrille-Largusa association. Apparently, this official association has sole, legal right to use the terms "Villabrille Kali" and "Largusa" in advertising. GM Largusa's student respectfully complied. Sometime after, GM Largusa came over from Hawaii to officiate at his student's wedding. On a sad note, I didn't have a good camera with me the day of Tacosa's seminar, so I went next door to Walgreens and bought one of those one-time use, disposable cameras. With poor lighting conditions and an even poorer camera, I came up with poor pictures to record the event. One picture did come out pretty sharp and clear, however, --a snapshot of Masters Sanchez and Uddin conversing with each other. I'm glad that picture came out well because Snooky was already in poor health when he visited, and he passed away in Hawaii not long afterwards. If any immediate member of Master Snooky's family would like it, I'll be glad to send them a copy of the picture and the original negative. ------------------------------ From: "BILL MCGRATH" Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 00:47:24 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Kali - again I remember from the first day I began training with Tuhon Gaje back in 1975 that he used the term kali to describe the original term for the FMAs (he also included in his lectures the stories about the inspiration for the invention of the 1911 Colt .45 and the term "leathernecks" as coming from American experiences during the occupation of the Philippines in 1905, so that might be where Guro Inosanto got them). Down through the years I got the impression that he used the term because he preferred it over the words derived from the Spanish - i.e. "Arnis" and "Eskrima". (An older rank structure he used in the 70's included some Muslim terms because he considered these more "pure" and untainted by European languages). As an American learning a Filipino art from a Filipino, I assumed he knew was he was talking about when it came to his own culture and history. I would guess I am not alone in this. The posts that say in essence "those dumb Americans and Europeans don't know how to use Filipino terms properly or are making them up" should remember that the first generation students in the west learned these Filipino terms from our Filipino instructors. Since the teacher's technique was correct (it worked in fights), it was natural to assume that their knowledge of their own country's history was correct as well. The following was recently posted on the escrima-arnis list during their own version of the annual kali argument. Please keep your eyes open for two dates: 1927 & 1610 "This material was first viewed on a visit to Malacanang in the 1970's. Kit Tatad was kind enough to avail this particular document. The thesis was written by Buenaventura Mirafuente in 1927 under the title "Maikling Kasasayan ng Arnis". During subsequent visits home to the Philippines similar documents were uncovered and also researched. >....." Ang Kali, unang pangalan na larong "arnis" nuong bago dumating ang >> mga kastilya dito sa atin. Ang KALIS, hango din sa kali, ay gulok na >> binalila ang tabas at tanging gamit sa KALI. Ito'y laging nakasakbat sa >> baywang ng mga lalaki nuon kahit saan ang paroroonan. >> >> "Kung ang "S" ay ihulip sa "KALI" upang maging "Kalis" ang kahulugan ay >> espada o tabak, itak, dili kaya't gulok na mahaba kaysa pangkaraniwang >> gina gamit natin sa panahong ito. "Ang manggagawa ng KALIS y espadero. >> Tomas Pinpin, sa kanyang aklat: "Paaralan ng Wikang Kastilya....., >> Maynila, 1610." >> >> Buenaventura Mirafuente- >> Pangulo Ang Tabak ni Bonifacio, 1927 >> (Kap. sa Manglalaro ng Arnis sa Pilipinas) >> KASAPI SA: Philippine Librairy Association, at Bibliographical Society >> of the Philippines 1957. > A translation may be in order for non-Tagalog speaking members : Kali was the first word used for the game "Arnis" before the Spaniards came to the Philippines. Kalis which is derived from Kali connotes a branch or wood cut and cleaned which is used for Kali. This was hung on the waist of men and brought to wherever they were going/went. If "s" is attached to the word "Kali" to turn into the word "KALIS" this means a sword (espada) or a cut wood branch made into a stick or a short working blade (itak) or a long stick above the ordinary length commonly used today. Source : The worker of Kalis and swordsman (espadero) Tomas Pinpin wrote this in his book "School of the Castillian (Spanish) language in Manila" 1610 By Buenaventura Mirafuente President of the Sword (Bolo) of Bonifacio, 1927 (Members of the players of Arnis in the Philippines) (Member of the Philippine Library Association and Biographical Society of the Philippines 1957" Tuhon Gaje always used the term "kali" and gave its origin as coming from the name of the Indian goddess. Being a Christian I was never very comfortable with this (and would not mind if the Philippine government declared that the proper term for the FMAs was now "Eskrima" which I think is a "cooler" term anyway) but you know what? No one I fight will fall down any quicker because I used the "proper" name for the FMAs. Pertinent not so much to the argument at hand but rather to what I feel are the reasons why it is brought up time and time again are the following proverbs. 1. This is an old Russian proverb. There were two men who were dirt poor. Let's call them "Boris" and "Ivan." They were equal in poverty except that Ivan had a milk goat. Now Boris was very jealous of Ivan's having something he didn't. One day Boris found a magic lamp, rubbed it and had a Genie pop out. "I will give you anything you want in the whole world for releasing me from the lamp." said the Genie. "I wish you would kill Ivan's goat." replied Boris. 2. This is a not so old proverb from me. Q: "How do you keep ten jealous men in a pit? A: "Throw in one ladder." Regards, Tuhon Guro (I was told by my Filipino teacher it means "Chief Instructor") Bill McGrath ------------------------------ From: "jose saguisabal" Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 23:10:34 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Answers to questions RJ Marcaida wrote: "A few questions regarding to your post : 1. What's the name of your instructor and what is the system he teaches? 2. Did he at one point charge you or anyone else for his services or his knowledge? If he did then he too is guilty of doing it for the money. 3. Are you Filipino? Seems to me you are (based on your family name). I ask this b/c of of the last sentence of your statement. ...if you are , you should know better than to post something like that coz' you have just attacked a few systems although i know you didn't mean to (I'm sure your instructor didn't think you were gonna post it publicly) and you know Filipinos will do anything to save face. Although I am a Pekiti-Tirshia practicioner and studied "Kali" Illustrisimo I'm just wondering who your instructor is. He has every right to his opinions but you just posted publicly some very strong quotations." Answers: 1. My instructor's name is Mustafa Gatdula, who teaches his family's system of Kuntaw. 2. Yes, he does teach for money, that is what he does for a living. As far as him being guilty of teaching for money, I don't think there is anything wrong with that, nor do I believe he does too. What I get from him is that he doesn't like to see Filipinos present their art in a way that foriegner would want it, because it compromises the purity of the art. Of course, he does understand, as he himself makes some compromises. For example, he is a believer in full contact fighting (stick and empty hand). He doesn't make everyone do it right away, but by the third month, everyone does it, male and female. However, he says that he does it this way because most people would drop out the first month, but instead, more stay as they were groomed for it. Although he is basically starving over there (actually I've sort of taken a vacation myself), he refuses to keep any student who won't do it. By the way, he doesn't teach drills, sinawali's, espada y daga, many things that most people would expect. Plus(much to the delight of "Kali lovers"), he does advertise KALI, Arnis, and Eskrima, although he does not teach them. He is only doing what he has to do, like everyone else, but he despises it. 3. Yes, I am Filipino, American bred. I am learning my culture, which is what led me to the FMAs. I guess you could say I am a former coconut (brown on the outside, white on the inside) that is turning into Adobo. Now, if anyone here is familiar with Kuya (which is what we call him), you will know that he is outspoken and very bull-headed. I have seen him challenge other instructors who try to argue about fighting strategy, as this is THE way to prove anything in the FMAs...very old school. Sometimes it does seem that he lacks tact, but I would have to say that most Filipinos speak their mind, and honesty is better than holding back anything, especially the truth. About the "tuhon" deal, he told me about some advice he was once given about teaching Americans: Ernesto Presas, who in 1988 did not believe in quick promotions, was trying to get him to join ARJUKEN/IPMAF (his organization) for rank and recognition. However, all Kuya wanted was stickfighting training. He was told that to teach Americans and Europeans he needed some sort of title, and a high rank, as no one wanted to study a "family style" that no one had ever heard of. Carlito Lanada of PKA wanted him to switch to Lanada's Kuntaw style, because he was young and had no "backing". He has been teaching since 1993, and in the two years he has been in California, representatives of almost every FMA group you could think of has passed through...He knows this business very well. However, like a martyr, he would rather starve than have representatives teaching his art that wouldn't jump at a challenge and prove the effectiveness of his art. So he does not chastise those who bend, as he does bend some, but he feels (as I do as well) that the FMA public deserves to know when a title, style, or term is no more "authentic" or "ancient" than an 11th degree black belt. Personally I believe that, like the 11th degree BB, you can make anything up you want and it is just as credible as the next. However, do not try to pass it off as something one will find as the norm in the FMAs. In PTK, JKD, Kali Illustrisimo, you will always have new innovations, just like everywhere else. But try to pass it off as something that always was and those who don't have it aren't "complete", expect the older guys to come out of the woodwork and question it. I hope I haven't started a war here, but there are people out there with very strong feelings about certain subjects, and forums like this are healthy for the art and those who are trying to learn what videos and seminars don't tell you. Jay Get FREE Email/Voicemail with 15MB at Lycos Communications at http://comm.lycos.com ------------------------------ From: "jose saguisabal" Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2000 23:30:46 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Use of the term "Kali" I'd like to add something to the discussion about the word "Kali". I think it is generally accepted that the art of "Kali" that exists today is actually Eskrima or Arnis renamed. ;) While we may see some Filipinos using the term, even titles such as Datu and Tuhon, it seems that what is in the American media can affect public opinion abroad, as we are powerful and reach far more people than any Filipino source. I have met newcomers to the U.S. from the Philippines that know more about the U.S. than most other immigrants! I would not doubt that Filipinos include American influences in what they do, such as the naming of WEKAF and LESKAS (did I get that right?), or, as some young Filipinos I've met have shown, BELIEVE what they read? This could explain why we see "Kali" used by many Filipinos IN the Philippines...it has become an internationally used term. Sort of how Filipinos uses "Howlie" for an American, while many Americans have never heard of a Howlie. Seems like a change of opinion/change of heart, but I am starting to understand the influence of the trust one puts in his instructor's words. Some people, however, may be harder to persuade. Also, a comment about the inconsistency in teaching the FMAs by Filipinos: When stories are passed by word of mouth, there will be inconsistencies. And, yes, with all those dialects, even terms used. But it is unreasonable to think that there will ever be standardization, which makes the FMAs so fascinating. There is so much to learn, so much history (even if there remains some embellishment)...I wouldn't have it any other way. I think many of the "complainers" are merely trying to set records straight especially when there may be an obvious fib being told. Waiting to be jumped on tomorrow... Jay Get FREE Email/Voicemail with 15MB at Lycos Communications at http://comm.lycos.com ------------------------------ From: "S. H. Wee" Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 14:31:40 +0800 Subject: eskrima: Kung Fu Dear Mikal, You are right. Kung Fu can be refered to any skill. It was widely used to describe practically every kind of skill before being associated to Chinese martial arts by Americans. Depending on the part of China and dialect, the more commonly used terms for Chinese martial arts are Quang Fa, Chu'ang Fa, Kuntao and Wu Gong. Another commonly misused Chinese terms are Sifu and Sigong/Sijo. Sifu literally means "father in the art" and Sigong/Sijo "Grandfather in the art". You use Sifu to refer to your teacher (not necessary martial art) and Sigong/Sijo to refer to the teacher of your teacher. And added the name of Sifu to a person who are skilled in something (can even be a cook or tailor). But never, ever address yourself as Sifu X or Sigong/Sijo X. This is akin to your son calling you "Daddy", but you would never expect a total stranger to call you "Daddy", too. In the case of Sigung/Sijo, your students'students will address you as such but not outsiders. Same as your grandson calling you "grandpa", please don't ask the man in the street to call you "grandpa", too. If you do need some fancy Chinese titles to show your superiority or seniority in Chinese martial arts, a more appropriate terms will be "Chang Mun Yang" (Master of the Way)for current head of your style or "Hoi Sang Jo Si" (Founder of the Way)if you are the founder of your style. For you silat guys out there, these are the fancy titles you can use in order of prestige; Duli Yang Maha Mulia Yang Dipertuan Agung Sultan Tun Tan Sri Datu/Dato Panglima Pendekar A word of caution, though. This is akin to calling yourself Pope and awarding the title of Bishop to your top students, you might have different interpretations but I bet the Catholics might not like it very much. :-P S. H. Wee > From: Mikal Keenan > Date: 27 Oct 00 10:09:49 CDT > Subject: eskrima: Kung Fu > > "Kung-fu", in Chinese, can apply to any skill. To think that the > term was not > in use in China is mistaken. It essentially conveys the concept > of leisure > time and/or hard work. So, hard work over time yields skill. > One can have > "Good kung fu" in sewing, math/physics, baseball, gymnastics, whatever. > That's an old generic usage of the term which predates its use in > the U.S. or > anywhere else to refer to martial arts. ------------------------------ From: Jivita@aol.com Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 03:26:12 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #505 In a message dated 10/27/2000 7:14:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << This is America, would those same people who are so easily offended by our misuse of their language ever set down in their own country and formalize the terms. Would they form ONE organization that sets criteria for rank? >> No. They simply wouldn;t see the need....But, we've been there already. Jim. ------------------------------ From: "Bernd Giller" Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 11:38:45 +0200 Subject: eskrima: Kali or not Kali??? Hi there! First: I would like to read more about "insider-knowledge", therefore I love it to read more posts from people from the philippines. Second: As an filipino outsider I would like to write a few words about the debatte "Kali etc.", too. My point of view is from now and not acient time. Therefore I really ask myself: Is it important to know whether the art is once called Kali, Escrima, Eskrima, Arnis or any else? I am training now, what the GMs give and want to share. Probably some of the techniques are developed yesterday night - who knows and who cares, if they work? The discussion shows that the question of the original word and the roots of the FMA is not easy to answer. Why? Perhaps, nobody can fix a date or a name to something which has not happened, meaning that IMHO the FMA are developing for a long time. It seems that nobody created the art and said: "This, I will call Kali!" - like e.g. Shotokan Karate (hope to be right with that;-) ). The FMA are still developing further on, influencing eachother and had (still have) so many influences like from Indonisia, China, Japan, Spain, USA ... The filipions always adapted and IMPROVED what foreign people have brought. How can I give that a certain name? I am training Pekiti Tirsia for about 10 years now. I have read old articles where it was called "Arnis", some called it "Kali". I like to call it simply "Pekiti Tirsia" without another term. Now, Grandtuhon Leo T. Gaje, jr. calls it Kali again. Instead of trying to bring it in relationship with a pointed history I ask myself: why does he use this name? I rather believe that he uses the term Kali to point out that what he teaches has a traditional background. What he teaches has an intention of (old? - back to the discussion ;-) ) tradition and filipino roots. At the end: Out of my view as a student in FMA, they are all just names. The intention of what is meant and what I feel about it is what counts. Nobody can answer the question what was first - the egg or the chicken? It has all developed. Just my hopefully not offending 2 cents, euros ... ;-))) Bernd Giller, Germany ptbernd@gmx.de ------------------------------ From: "David Eke" Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 19:48:30 +1000 Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #505 >Punong Guro Edgar Sulite titled a wonderful book he wrote "Masters of >Kali, Arnis, Eskrima". Are the masters in his book who use the term kali >deluded? The Villabraille people use the term kali, the Pekiti Tirsia people use >the term kali, the Ilustrisimo people use the term kali, and many others. Are >they deluded or is it all just some twaddle to humor the Americans? If you read the book carefully it actually supports the idea that "kali" is not a word which is used fequently to describe the art. All the instructors describe their styles by the words "escrima" or "arnis" with the exception of illustrisimo kali, Master Amante Marinas Sr as Pananandata and Prof Visitacion as Vee-ARNIS-jitsu. On p115 GM Navales calls his style Pekiti-Tirsia system of ARNIS. On p223 GM Leo T. Gaje speaks about his style of Pekiti-Tirsia "ARNIS is a living art, it is evolving and continuously improving". He does use the word "kali" a number of times interchanging it with "arnis" P117 GM "Nene" Tortal calls his style Pekiti-Tirsia system of ARNIS from Negros Occidental. With the exception of Illustrisimo Kali the only times "Kali" is used is when it appears to be coming from the US. Even with Pekiti-Tirsia noone inside the Philippines called it "Kali" ------------------------------ From: Chad Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 03:18:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Hitting Hard...Very Barbaric...Of Gentlemen or of Warriors? >>but rahter to capture the imagination of some of those who are >>blinded by the quest for power at the onset of developing "skill" ... >>something which is actually contradictory to the development of >>skill. ??? >>Training with an orientation towards >>finer development may affect other aspects of one's life such that >>the end product will be less of a brute, perhaps more of a >>gentleman. Too many "power-seekers" are "trouble-makers" in the >>making. Think about it. Not long ago I spoke with a young man who >>liked to rant and rave about "power, gore and mayhem". Bugged the >>heck outta me. What kind of society will that guy and his buddies >>promote? A fricked up one IMHO. Humanity can do without people who >>just want to have fun seeking power and making mayhem. How are we >>going to last with attitudes like that? How does one maintain or >>create anything good for later generations with attitudes like that? ??? >>Anyone can hit harder. Only if they practice hitting hard...and they won't be able to hit harder in a fight, unless they practice hitting harder in a fight. ===== Chad chad@fullcontacthi.com Full Contact Stickfighting Hawaii http://www.fullcontacthi.com http://www.egroups.com/group/stickfighting __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Messenger - Talk while you surf! It's FREE. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2000 8:28:43 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #507 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.