From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #512 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Tues, 31 Oct 2000 Vol 07 : Num 512 In this issue: eskrima: Mime-Version: 1.0 eskrima: Meaning of "Tuhon" eskrima: Tuhon eskrima: PCAT STICK TOURNEY IN L.A. eskrima: Hilot/Program 2001 eskrima: Right on Crafty eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1200 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource An open FMA discussion forum provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay, Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Luis Pellicer Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 10:56:52 +0800 Subject: eskrima: Mime-Version: 1.0 Since the post showing that the word "Kali" was used during the early part of the 20th. century as a term SYNONYMOUS with "Arnis" and "Escrima", I've pretty much stayed off the "Kali" threads. That the term is not generally known compared to the others, is true. >And please forgive my >lack of tact, but it would seem that despite his never having been to the >Philippines, the recent repost by Bill McGrath of something that David Reyes >wrote shows that he got it right conderning 'kali" when some living in the >Phlippines (would that include you?) did not. > The point of discussion for some was not so much regarding choice of terminology to use, but the predjudice in which the terms ARE used by some. I myself experienced this first hand. I was told by an American Instructor (who was taught by an American) that there wasn't anything worth learning in the Philippines. That all that was done out here was that "Arnis S--t". That if the source didn't come from a couple of Manongs from Hawaii or CA, it wasn't any good. Believe it or not. As neither him nor his Instructor had ever been to the Philippines, that opinion was based on a second hand source. As a Filipino being told something which was known not to be true, with so much authority, his statement would be taken negatively. Not everyone using "Kali" shares that opinion, unfortunately there are some people who do. If I'm not mistaken, the translation posted was originally mine from the original Tagalog. I was pretty surprised myself! An interesting point, but would you not overall agree that his effect has >been to stimulate interest in the FMA--- including that wave of "humored" >foreigners culturally overwhelming "ignorant" masters into using the "wrong" >term for their art? (Attention literal minded people-- this last sentence is >sarcastic!) > But there are those who pander not due to ignorance, but to sell a product by intentionally misrepresenting. For you who have been around long enough to distinguish, you are safe. For the newcomers, oops. Some stories are getting more outrageous with each telling. Since there is generally alot of ego involved in what we do, the lines get blurred. I've seen some guys who's skills are undeniably superior to the norm, but wouldn't bet the home (or much less) on anything they stated to be fact! >Look, I too have a great sense of sadness at how much is being lost. When I >was in Negros with GT Gaje, he introduced my to a completely unknown master >who impressed me greatly. I asked about his teaching, but he had no >students because he didn't want anyone "using the art against him". Now, >here is a man in his mid 60s thinking like this. This is most unfortunate. But this is the way it is, here. Sometimes people like this, pass the information on, but only to a couple of people. Finding them is the problem. >> Clearly the "kali" thread has been beaten to death. > >Agreed. What follows I hope will be my last on this topic. > > Amen to that. Me too. > LPIII ------------------------------ From: "S. H. Wee" Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 11:10:38 +0800 Subject: eskrima: Meaning of "Tuhon" Dear Bill, Indeed. Tuhon or Tuan are used by Malays to address a well-respected person. In Silat circles here, we typically use "Tuan Guru/Tuhon Guro" to address a Chief Instructor and "Tok Guru" to address to head of style or very senior instructor (usually >50 yrs old). IMVHO, these are the more approprate titles that for Silat masters. Sincerely, S. H. Wee > From: "BILL MCGRATH" > Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 06:26:54 -0500 > Subject: eskrima: Meaning of "Tuhon" > > I asked Tuhon Gaje to give me the origin and deffinition of the word > "Tuhon". Here is his response. > > "Tuhon is a malay word addressed to someone in > authority or higher in rank or as expressed for > respect. Used to addressed as your majesty, your > lordship,your honor,your highness. For kalimen it is > addressed to person who as the supreme wisdom, or talent > as to the healers, medicine man,.Chieftain or > Sultanates. Tuhon in the case of our systems is used for higher > respect in authority with the highest technology and > with supreme power over the teritorial domain. It is > indigenous in its meaning but filled with wisdom and > knowledge related to the PTK as a system." > > Regards, > Tuhon Bill McGrath ------------------------------ From: "arnis ny" Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 23:26:04 EST Subject: eskrima: Tuhon <<< From: Solimanus Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 12:04:45 -0500 Subject: eskrima: "Tuhon" A word used to address someone or a title used to address oneself? From: Bill McGrath I asked Tuhon Gaje to give me the origin and deffinition of the word "Tuhon". Here is his response. "Tuhon is a malay word addressed to someone in authority or higher in rank or as expressed for respect. Used to addressed as your majesty, your lordship,your honor,your highness. For kalimen it is addressed to person who as the supreme wisdom, or talent as to the healers, medicine man,.Chieftain or Sultanates. Tuhon in the case of our systems is used for higher respect in authority with the highest technology and with supreme power over the teritorial domain. It is indigenous in its meaning but filled with wisdom and knowledge related to the PTK as a system." Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath >>> I'm also so confused by this one. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ From: ARNISTE@aol.com Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 01:35:21 EST Subject: eskrima: PCAT STICK TOURNEY IN L.A. Meowmix to all, PCAT 1st Annual Stick Tourney will be this Saturday @10am. Late registration start at 8am and weighin. Last night we had friends from other schools showed at the judges/referee clinic eventhough increment weather no one mind it.We have instructors and masters committed to bring figthers from their school such as: Doce Pares,Inosanto Academy,CATSociety,Sikaran Group, Henry fom Oxnard and some local schools in L.A. ------------------------------ From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 07:09:23 EST Subject: eskrima: Hilot/Program 2001 Alex, Marc, Tom, I just came back from Venezuela for Wonderful Seminar that attended over 60 Practitoner of Garimot System over there. That why my answer is late. GuroTom Meadow, thanks for your kind words and also to you Guro Marc or Crafty. Alex the Hilot program is going to effect on 2001. I already format the program. I just have to finish this POLICE CARE program that I started here in Miami. Police Caution Response. We are now giving Training to the Police of Miami Dade and Broward County bsed on the Harimaw Buno 21 basic standing and ground controls. Baton Caution Response, Gun and Knife Caution Response. I will keep you inform. BTW Brokil is the formal name of baston in our system. Regards to the "KALI" thread, I enjoy the response of everyone, negative and positive. I just want to add a little word on it. I think right now everybody know that Kali is accepted Filipino Martial Arts around the world, that is wonderful. The only thing I would like to clear up is this is mis-lead word to used as the Mother arts of all FMA, why its is because theres only existence in Visayan System. I am not saying this is not good. I am saying is its good that his arts has revived with a help of a lot of the masters. I am just being reasonable in the Term on the "Mother Art Terminology. But if its not acceptabble my request, that really its up to the practitioner what to believed and what is not to believed. Also not to confuse anyone on the word Kali to the word Kalis its two different word wherever you look at it. Kalis is one of the type of straight Kris that our Muslim brother used, Kali is goddess of Distruction from India. Its should be called Kalis more likely Filipino but again its not my place to tell the old Master how to call their arts. Thats their freedom of choice. I choose Arnis-Estokada and Eskrima because I grow up with this words. This is my Familys way of life and preserving life. Again I have no intention to the others to change the Kali Martial Arts all I want to claim, should not be called the mother arts, its should be called the oldest fighting art form in Visaya or in Mindanao for that matter. I dont know I am not Visayan and I am not Moro also, I am pure Tagalog. Kalis is word written in the Filipino Tagalog dictionary meaning 'Bolo" and the other meaning is, "Shave", and the other meaning is "Wine Cup" use in Religous ritual of last suffer of Jesus of Nazarene. We have to be very specific, when we give meaning to the arts we can easily be attack by other . I do believed Kali exist before. probaly different name in Tagalog, Visayan, Kapangpangan, Muslim etc. the importants is no matter what they name their arts is quite resemble to the same arts of every Island. We shared the same Weaponry and the same techniques of applying it in to the empty hand. Other might claim that their arts is quite different but that the old "Maestros" claimed. Go back to the stick fighting overhead strike to Kali arts is the same over head strike in Arnis Eskrima, the blocks and deflect, Triangle footworks everyone of us claim this theory. This is enought to capitalized that the Filipino Martial Arts are the same but its has its own different name in different Region, Trival, influence. Well, Thanks to all that give a positive and negative comments on this tread I believed we all agreed that the art of Kali-Arnis -Eskrima-Estokada is strong and effective so let enjoy our training. I am blessed to be parts of this arts. Thanks. Gumagalang ng Lubos/With deep respect, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA << Dear Gat Puno Abon, So, burokil or brokil is the name of the weapon used, not the name of an art! Thank you for taking the time to let me (and others on the Digest) know. I always look forward to your knowledgeable contributions to the Digest...and I am impatiently waiting for your announced hilot program to reach California! Respectfully, Alex(ander Bautista Bayot France) >> ------------------------------ From: "q" Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 20:40:16 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Right on Crafty > by a teacher. It goes with being a student. This includes those of us who > are students of Guro I. I only ask that you consider that the mistakes are > ours, and not his. > > Woof, > Crafty Dog Crafty is right on about Guro I. If you are a decent martial artist then come by and take a look. Then decide regardless of where the material is from. All I can say is someone is missing out. Your loss is another's gain. Top Dog writes: > From: Eric Knaus > Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 00:54:37 -0700 > Subject: eskrima: Hitting Hard and Higher Techniques > something if it's not dealt with right then and there. The bottom line > is - how much damage can be done. Power is the air that breathes life > in to your higher techniques and allows them to exist in real time. Power is extremely important but better mechanics can neutralize power. An everyday example of good engineering is the Airbag in you car. The math of energy absorbsion by a ballon is impressive. A Person Always in Search of More Power, Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. Redondo Beach, Ca. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 7:00:19 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #512 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.