From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #516 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 1 Nov 2000 Vol 07 : Num 516 In this issue: eskrima: The weapons of Inosanto LaCots Kali eskrima: Power and adrenaline. eskrima: Re: Demonstration Tricks eskrima: Filipino Magazine eskrima: Villabrille eskrima: Phil trip eskrima: Re: power eskrima: Re: business end of the stick eskrima: re demonstration tricks Re: eskrima: Villabrille Re: eskrima: Re: Demonstration Tricks eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1200 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource An open FMA discussion forum provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay, Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tom Meadows" Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 09:12:47 -0800 Subject: eskrima: The weapons of Inosanto LaCots Kali Last Issue Mr. Saguisabel wrote: <"The second statement that got me was the apparent "arrogance" of an American FMA artist because his art of "Kali" teaches 12 weapons. First of all, I happen to know several JKD-FMA from the Inosanto camp, they've reported only learning the same weapons folks going to Doce Pares seminars learn. Secondly, all of the instructors he has learned from have younger generations here, near my area, and with the exception of the Largusa group and one other person whose name escapes me at this time, they all call their arts "Eskrima". Who taught these 12 weapons? Do you mean to tell me that you had classes in projectile weapons, and whips, and shields? I really doubt that. I also happen to know that most of those other weapons are used for hunting and warfare; not weapons taught as an art. Would you kindly describe for us a drill with the blow gun?"> First I am presuming that I am the martial artist in question sicne I posted the twelve weapons of Inosanto LaCoste Kali. So let me respond to his observations. First it is presumptuous on your part to assume I am American. I'm not, in fact I am Canadian by birth. I am not in charge of what other students of Guro Inosanto have been trained in or what weapons and styles they have chosen to pursue. Regarding all of the instructors I have trained under: Here is a partial list, some I spent a little time with, some quite a bit: Dan Inosanto, Larry Hartsell, Chris Kent, Richard Bustillo, Ron Balicki, Leo Giron, Ted Lucay Lucay, Steve Grody, Cacoy Canete, Diony Canete, Dodong Cuesta, Sam Tendencia, , Pendekar Paul DeThouars, Victor De Thouars, Salem Assli, Robert Paturel, Richard Sylla, Peter Cunningham, Anthony Kleeman, Ron Lew, Mike Belzer, Terry Tippie, Chai Sirisute, Burt Richardson, Barry Smith, Terry Keller, Tom Elliot, Mary Tesoro, Anthony DeLongis, Skip Jordan, Ted Sotello and Marc Denny . My apolologies to anyone I have left out, It has been a very busy 13 years of training. Mr Saguisabal, I am impressed that all of my instructors have younger generations in your area, you are indeed fortunate! And yes, I do mean to tell you that I have had classes in projectile weapons, whips and shields. The whip has been formally and recently taught at the Inosanto Academy by Ron Balicki and Anthony De Longis and myself as well. Guro Inosanto keeps whips at the academy and used to teach it at his home to interested students, which I certainly was. Projectile weapons are taught as well including knife throwing, spike throwing ,sand and pepper throwing , traditional archery , and arrow throwing , the last two of which Ted Lucay Lucay used to practice and teach indoors at the old academy. Guro Ted LucayLucay used to teach the palm stick as well and has a video out on the subject. There is a fair number of shields at the current academy, and their use is occasionally taught at instructor's seminars. Jacket and scarf techniques are a normal part of the current curriculum as well. I myself teach the top as a weapon; it being in the projectile family, and I have several slingshots on the shelf, and I am quite proficient with the sling, which I have taught to at least a dozen people, one of them being Fred Degerberg. During the three years I lived in Japan I studied Kodokan Judo and also archery, which I teach in its many variants. The statement <" I also happen to know that most of those other weapons are used for hunting and warfare; not weapons taught as an art."> is really quite remarkable. Hunting is an exquisite art in itself when practiced properly, and I believe the term "warfare" is fairly self explanantory...... My personal favorite drill for the blowgun is to see how long it takes me to unhook it from its place by the back door, load a dart and turn and fire at the blowgun target which is mounted over my work bench, and then split the blowgun down into its two component pieces and see if I can retain the same accuracy with the shorter blowgun. I train with it regularly with this way, and my proficiency is improving with practice. Perhaps Marc Denny can add to this, as I know that he has a blowgun hanging on the wall of his livingroom. And lastly about this statement <"The last time I was in Stockton, I was told when Dan Inosanto was making his rounds learning from the Masters, he already knew how to use the Nunchaku, which he learned from Ed Parker! Okay, so that eliminates the Tabak Toyok, which I have yet to meet a Filipino who knows them or heard of them....". Then you should take the opportunity to meet Guro Dan, since he is both Filipino, and aware of the technical differences between the traditional Asian uses of the Nunchaku and the Filipino applications of the Tabak Toyok, as he refers to the weapon. Tom Meadows "Arrogance should never be mistaken for a strong desire to learn, and the willingness to confidently desseminate what has been learned" ------------------------------ From: "Tom Meadows" Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 08:17:41 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Power and adrenaline. Last issue Tuhon McGrath wrote: My own experience is that my actual power in combat is much less than in the gym and that it gets noticeably greater when I relax.I have always assumed that the excessive adrenaline in my system causes the agonistic muscles to contract and slow the speed of my strikes down, and thus reduce the power. Proper breathing can have a very positive effect on adrenaline control, and this is what I actively teach my students during sparring. You can't spar too much if you want to be good under the stress of combat! Tom Meadows ------------------------------ From: "Branwen Books Inc." Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 12:28:08 -0330 Subject: eskrima: Re: Demonstration Tricks > From: "S. H. Wee" > Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 16:30:06 +0800 > Subject: eskrima: Demonstration tricks > Now what truely amazed me are some of the Qi Gong masters' ability to > hang 20 lbs dumb bell on their fully erected penises. And yesterday I > saw it in the news that three Taiwanese Qi Gong masters pulling a > 50-tonnes fully loaded bus with ropes tied to their penises!! [De-lurking for a second] No offense, I'm sure this takes much concentration, will, etc etc., but.... *Why would you?* I can't imagine wanting to be able to do the same with my breasts or anything else...is this a guy thing? ;D jocelyne - Roaring Girl ------------------------------ From: "Kyud" Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 09:33:14 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Filipino Magazine The Filipino Martial Arts magazine site was down over the weekend due to changing servers. It is now back on line and up with some new things in the drill page and business page. http://www.filipinomag.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Mark Harrell" Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 19:19:53 GMT Subject: eskrima: Villabrille >DATE: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 09:58:45 >From: maurice gatdula >...(snip)...felicismo dison, who is the teacher of villabrille >(largusa >teacher),is known as a "eskrimador". de cuerdas is still >in the philippines, and is called "eskrima". I am sorry but you are mistaken with regards to Felicismo Dizon being the teacher of Floro Villabrille. Mr. Dizon was a friend and training partner of Mr. Villabrille. I am sure that an exchange or sharing of knowledge took place but they did not have a teacher and student relationship (each man stood on their own merit). The late Floro Villabrille was the teacher of Ben Largusa. I just wanted to clarifiy this point on the behalf of the Kali Association of America and the Villabrille-Largusa Kali system. Peace be with you, Mark Harrell Pangulo Na Guro Villabrille-Largusa Kali _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ From: "BILL MCGRATH" Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 18:38:18 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Phil trip Marc Denny wrote: "And please forgive my lack of tact, but it would seem that despite his never having been to the Philippines, the recent repost by Bill McGrath ...." Just a short correction on this since I occasionally get ribbed about "never having set foot in the Philippines" over the net from people who have not met me. I did in fact accompany Tuhon Gaje on a trip to the Philippines in the summer of '85. We spent a few days in the Manila area. While in Manila, Edgar Sulite came by our hotel room for a brief visit. One of Leo's nephew's took me to a local market where I brought a few knives. After this Leo and I spent the next six weeks bouncing back and forth between Jakarta and Singapore. Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath ------------------------------ From: Chad Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 15:35:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Re: power > Yes part of it is more experience with swinging a stick but I think a > lot of it is mental. How many times have you seen someone hits the >tires really hard, but doesn't seem to be able to duplicate that power > in real time? I think coolness under stress allows you to deliver >your full potential of power in real time. Therefore I think we should > add the human factor of experience under pressure to our equation of > power. I agree with Tuhon's McGrath's statement here. Let it be known, that my point was not power is the most important thing in life, just something that not alot of people pay attention to. I understand your point, and think we agree that body position and mechanics play an important role in hitting hard. I did say 'hitting' hard, and not 'swinging' hard. I have met so many people though, that "train" the proper angling, and mechanics, and hit bags and tires, etc., and even tell me that they can hit hard. Most of these people step on the grass, kind of putting their sticks up in front of them and wave them around. Also, on the road of progression in fighting, I often times see people realize that their "power" needs to become more respectable, and so they wind up paying attention to the power strikes. In doing so, yes they miss the "timing" and "telegraph" every shot, but they are taking the first step that it takes to hit hard under pressure. Next, they start to feel 'comfortable' with the pressure and not have to 'try' to hit hard, but can just hit when the opening is there. Of course, if the discussion is about " Accuracy, Flow, Speed, Power" and as Eric mentioned- they are all so intertwined, than my standing on this is to fight to improve your attributes. ===== Chad chad@fullcontacthi.com Full Contact Stickfighting Hawaii http://www.fullcontacthi.com http://www.egroups.com/group/stickfighting __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer. http://experts.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Chad Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 15:36:42 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Re: business end of the stick >>the terminal velocity of the business end of the stick will not be >>much different if proper body mechanics are employed. I think the "business end" of a stick have a SMALL effect to the way proper body mechanics are employed. ===== Chad chad@fullcontacthi.com Full Contact Stickfighting Hawaii http://www.fullcontacthi.com http://www.egroups.com/group/stickfighting __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer. http://experts.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: John Chow Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 10:43:27 +1100 Subject: eskrima: re demonstration tricks Mr. Wee wrote: >These are the same popular demonstration "tricks" that frequently >performed by the Qi Gong masters here. It involves a little cheating and >lots of practices and you do have to have reasonable basic in Kung Fu. >Just like the board breakings, it looked amazing to the common people >but once you learned how to do it, it's not that special. > >Our regular Qigong and Taichi Masters here can take blows to their >throat and groin without any problems. Even some Silat masters here can >do that. According to them it only take lots of practices on how to >focus your Ki/Chi. > >Now what truely amazed me are some of the Qi Gong masters' ability to >hang 20 lbs dumb bell on their fully erected penises. And yesterday I >saw it in the news that three Taiwanese Qi Gong masters pulling a >50-tonnes fully loaded bus with ropes tied to their penises!! Now, this >is the one martial art that my wife will not complain of me spending too >much time on. > Yet again, I have to agree with Mr. Wee. Demonstration skills are not mere trickery like stage conjuring. You still need some skill and technique as the base to pull it off. Even with taking hits on the throat and neck, some very gifted individuals (oh..... why do they need to be born to outshine us???) may train to do it without any special secret instructions from Chi Kung masters. On those hard pounding penises: It is a standard training regiment for Taoist Sexual Yoga. It is a spiritual art - not a orgy increase-your-libido bang-your-wife-to-smithens art. The basis of Taoist Yoga is the circulation of Ching and Chi. Ching has a physical equivalent of the semen/sperm. The aim is to conserve it and bring it back into the body circulation. (Note: mere non-ejaculatory sexual intercourse may, in many cases, be harmful in the long run. You need proper technique of absorbtion/assimilation). Now, why I am commenting on these amazing 'hard penises': There is a disturbing trend (perhaps spurred on by contact with Western culture) to take bits of our old arts and make it almost stand by itself, or make it too important. To the extent that we 'want to break records'. Thus, we practise to make our penises harder and stay up longer, and carry more weights........ more and more weights. So, what started out as an exercise to help retain the semen/sperm, became the main objective of practice. I am not against anybody pulling trucks and planes with their penises. And if they can satisfy 1000 women (Luis Pellicer - you are still welcome to my harem) a night, I am very happy for them. But I only wish to bring a little caution at the direction we are heading. Plus, the relentless pursuit of such things can be disasterous. Long time ago, I heard that a Taiwanese Chi Kung master who attempted too heavy weights (something like 400 kilos) died quite prematurely young. And why would I want to lift 400 kilos with my penis when I can use my penis for more pleasuraeble pursuits?????? Common sense prevails. I guess, as with all good things, enjoy them, but in moderation. :):):) John Chow Kali Ilustrisimo and Lameco Eskrima ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 17:02:25 PST Subject: Re: eskrima: Villabrille > >...(snip)...felicismo dison, who is the teacher of villabrille >(largusa > >teacher),is known as a "eskrimador". de cuerdas is still > >in the philippines, and is called "eskrima". > > I am sorry but you are mistaken with regards to Felicismo Dizon > being the teacher of Floro Villabrille. Mr. Dizon was a friend > and training partner of Mr. Villabrille. This is the same story we get on the Dizon side of the lineage, also. But Dizon supposedly never used the name De Cuerdas for his style, only Eskrima. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 17:03:29 PST Subject: Re: eskrima: Re: Demonstration Tricks > > From: "S. H. Wee" > > Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 16:30:06 +0800 > > Subject: eskrima: Demonstration tricks > > Now what truely amazed me are some of the Qi Gong masters' ability to > > hang 20 lbs dumb bell on their fully erected penises. And yesterday I > > saw it in the news that three Taiwanese Qi Gong masters pulling a > > 50-tonnes fully loaded bus with ropes tied to their penises!! > > [De-lurking for a second] > No offense, I'm sure this takes much concentration, will, etc etc., but.... > *Why would you?* I can't imagine wanting to be able to do the same with my > breasts or anything else...is this a guy thing? Probably. Probably started out as a drunken bar bet... :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 17:05:21 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #516 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.