From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #517 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Thur, 2 Nov 2000 Vol 07 : Num 517 In this issue: eskrima: Yip yip eskrima: Re: Demonstration Tricks eskrima: Animal in OK eskrima: RE: Tuhon eskrima: Re: Blow Gun eskrima: Murphy eskrima: demonstration tricks eskrima: Guro Inosanto and FMA eskrima: Moro eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #515 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #516 eskrima: Re: weapons and warfare eskrima: Re: Dizon Lineage eskrima: Mime-Version: 1.0 eskrima: NAAKESC Rated Stick Fight in 2201 Re: eskrima: Re: Dizon Lineage eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1200 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource An open FMA discussion forum provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay, Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marc Denny" Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 17:55:50 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Yip yip A Howl etc: Tom Meadows wrote: > Perhaps Marc Denny can add to this, as I know that he has a blowgun > hanging on the wall of his livingroom. Nothing to add here except that there are two blowguns on my wall of "Sacred Relics". One was a gift from Ron Balicki and is quite ornate and beautiful- he brought it back from a training trip to Indonesia, and the other a Filipino blow gun that was a gift from Underdog- simple, straight, to the point. I haven't a clue as to how to use either. > And lastly about this statement <"The last time I was in Stockton, I was > told when Dan Inosanto was making his rounds learning from the Masters, he > already knew how to use the Nunchaku, which he learned from Ed Parker! > Okay, so that eliminates the Tabak Toyok, which I have yet to meet a > Filipino who knows them or heard of them....". Then you should take the > opportunity to meet Guro Dan, since he is both Filipino, and aware of the > technical differences between the traditional Asian uses of the Nunchaku > and the Filipino applications of the Tabak Toyok, as he refers to the > weapon. > > Tom Meadows I really hate speaking up on this stuff because I'm so bad at it, but I'm pretty sure that Guro I. teaches that the TT/Nunchaku are to be found throughout this region of the world (Philippines, Indonesia, Owkinawa, Indochina, Malaysia etc) I'm pretty clear, ignorant American that I am, that there is such a thing as FMA TT. That some Filipinos haven't heard of it is no more dispositive of its existence vel non than my not knowing some piece of American history that a European does know. > Marc Denny wrote: > > "And please forgive my lack of tact, but it would seem that despite his > never having been to the Philippines, the recent repost by Bill McGrath > ...." > > Just a short correction on this since I occasionally get ribbed about "never > having set foot in the Philippines" over the net from people who have not > met me. I did in fact accompany Tuhon Gaje on a trip to the Philippines in > the summer of '85. We spent a few days in the Manila area. While in Manila, > Edgar Sulite came by our hotel room for a brief visit. One of Leo's nephew's > took me to a local market where I brought a few knives. After this Leo and I > spent the next six weeks bouncing back and forth between Jakarta and > Singapore. > > Regards, > Tuhon Bill McGrath Sorry Bill that my meaning was not clear-- my reference to never having been to the Philippines was with regard to Guro I, not you. Anyway, that must have been a helluva trip , , , Woof, Crafty ------------------------------ From: John Chow Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 12:50:10 +1100 Subject: eskrima: Re: Demonstration Tricks > > From: "S. H. Wee" > > Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 16:30:06 +0800 > > Subject: eskrima: Demonstration tricks > > Now what truely amazed me are some of the Qi Gong masters' ability to > > hang 20 lbs dumb bell on their fully erected penises. And yesterday I > > saw it in the news that three Taiwanese Qi Gong masters pulling a > > 50-tonnes fully loaded bus with ropes tied to their penises!! > > [De-lurking for a second] > No offense, I'm sure this takes much concentration, will, etc etc., but.... > *Why would you?* I can't imagine wanting to be able to do the same with my > breasts or anything else...is this a guy thing? Yes, it is. There is a female equivalent exercise of hanging/lifting the weights too. Of course, these are for spiritual cultivation. But hhhmmmmm..... there are fringe benefits too. As I mentioned, we can take thing a bit far nowadays and concentrate on only a small aspect of the art, and possibly abuse it. A well trained female can drink, suck, shoot, squeeze with her vagina. If you have been to Thai girlie bars, you would have seen this 'corrupted' use of the art. But then, who am I to judge what is corrupt? I can only say that in the old way, this was only a small part of the Way, and that we have over emphasized it. Oh.... no worries. You don't need to use your breasts to lift weights or pull trucks. :):):) John Chow Kali Ilustrisimo and Lameco Eskrima ------------------------------ From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 20:55:28 EST Subject: eskrima: Animal in OK Hey folks. As if the Dustbowl, tornados and having Texas as a neighbor isn't bad enough. Oklahoma is about to suffer a double disaster. Myself and Richard Dobson are going to be down teaching in Lawton Oklahoma the weekend of January 27. We'll be teaching knife, silat, kali and whatever happens to cross our little peabrains. :D For more information http://members.tripod.com/ksma_kali/Seminars.html Or contact Brandt Smith ksma1@hotmail.com ------------------------------ From: "S. H. Wee" Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 09:12:18 +0800 Subject: eskrima: RE: Tuhon Dear Bill, "Tuhon" or more commonly spelled as "Tuan" in Indonesia and Malaysia IS the common term used to address Chief Instructor as far as you do not mispell the "o" into "a". "Tuhan" is GOD, a title which I believe non of us is qualified for. We usually added the word "Guru/Guro" after "Tuan" to differentiate from other non-MA "Tuan". So a typical title for a chief instructor here will be "Tuhon Guro" or "Tuan Guru". For more informal occasion. we simply address our instructors as "Cikgu" (Mr. Teacher). Sincerely, S. H. Wee > From: "BILL MCGRATH" > Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2000 23:55:51 -0500 > Subject: eskrima: Kali,Tuhon, DB tape & power > RE: Tuhon: > I really can't add very much to John Chow's very informative post on the > Malay use of the term "Tuhon". > While the term has several meanings in Malay and is used by several groups > in the FMA I feel that I am only responsible for how it is used within > Pekiti-Tirsia International. When Tuhon Gaje gave me that rank in 1994 I > understood it to mean that I was the chief instructor for Pekiti-Tirsia > International. You can read all of Tuhon Gaje's typically flowery language > on my certificate on the PTI web site > (http://www.pekiti-tirsia.com/docs/certificates.html), but I try not to let > it go to my head and neither should anyone else. ------------------------------ From: "S. H. Wee" Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 09:54:11 +0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Blow Gun Yes, blow guns IS used as a weapon here (Well, at least in Borneo). What the locals usually do is fixing a blade to the tip of the blow gun and use it as spear when they are not busy shooting poison-tipped darts. Sincerely, S. H. Wee > "Would you kindly describe for us a drill with the blow gun?" > Here's one made up by me on the spot! Go down to your local woods/range set > up some targets and give it a try. If you take a picnic you can have a good > day out. You could take a friend and hunt each other. Not my cup of tea but > there it is. > > Could the blow gun double up for a stick? > > Regards > > Richard (legend in his own lunch time) Killick. ------------------------------ From: tenrec Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 02:06:17 +0000 Subject: eskrima: Murphy Greetings and Salutations, El Poobah Grande! ("we're not worthy, we're not worthy") You wrote: >Murphy's Laws of Combat Operations > 1. Friendly fire - isn't. >2. Recoilless rifles - aren't. > 3. Suppressive fires - won't. > 4. You are not Superman; Marines and fighter pilots take note. Great list...exhaustive too! They oughtta have this in the field manuals... I got one from an old Ronald Reagan movie: "Two's company, three's a target." tenrec tenrec@avcorner.com ------------------------------ From: "Parad1gm (not my real name)" Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 20:22:51 CST Subject: eskrima: demonstration tricks Someone wrote: "Demonstration skills are not mere trickery like stage conjuring." As an on-and-off amateur illusionist, I'd like to point out that stage magic is *incredibly* difficult, requiring an amazing grasp of timing, spatial awareness and audience attention. Not to mention a real level of creativity in inventing/rediscoving new illusions. Point being, I have a lot of respect for illusionists, so don;t knock 'em. Cory _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ From: James D Stacy Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 19:08:35 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Guro Inosanto and FMA I have been reading only for a short time but feel like I want to through in my two cents into the fray. First: Some people have been saying some things about Guro I. not ever going to the Fillipines and saying that that disqualifies him from truely knowing the FMA. I want to know how many of these people have Met, Trained or know Guro I.? Point being if you have not trained with him then by your own argument you should keep your comments about him to yourself. Second: I moved from Tulsa OK. to train under him and do not know of very many people who have done so much for so long to promote FMA. but there is always those who feel that you can only make yourself look good by makeing someone else look bad. Guro I. is a very humble man and extreamly knowledgeible about FMA. You can tell that by the number of arts that he represents. Third: When I started to subscribe to this digest I was hopeing that we were going to discuss the best training methods we have not bicker about things that you will never be able to resolve (ie.. Kali FMA name or not). Fourth: In this last vain I will tell of a drill that I came up with after haveing participaited in the DB gathering. What you do is to have a student stand about 10 feet away with a single stick (tell them not to move forward) then you get a ball ($.99 ball from the store) and you through it at them about waist high. The object is to parry the ball with your left hand and then strike behind with the stick. This is to simulate the guy trying to tackle you and you parry the head and then strike the body. Hope you like this drill. Yours in sweat blood and pain. James Stacy sifu@junfanjeetkunedo.com ________________________________________________________________ YOU'RE PAYING TOO MUCH FOR THE INTERNET! Juno now offers FREE Internet Access! Try it today - there's no risk! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ From: Ernie Aragon Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 10:52:05 +0800 Subject: eskrima: Moro Hello there. I just want to come out of lurking for a while to make a contribution. I was about to do this a day earlier but good thing I waited another day. As I opened the TV to watch the Lifestyles Network, there was the answer to the issue I was about to discuss. This concerns the term "moro". The word "Moro" is the Spanish/Filipino translation of the term "Moor", which you remember the Roman Catholics came up against during the Crusades. In the narrowest sense, "moor" or "moro" refers to a certain group of African Muslim warriors. They even invaded parts of Spain for a short time during the middle ages (the show I was watching was on the Moorish influence on cooking in Barcelona, a cooking show (: ). So, it is very likely that the Spanish used the term "moro" with much derision since Spain was a Roman Catholic nation and that the Moors also invaded it for a short time. When the Spanish occupied the Philippines, they also came against the Muslim Filipino warriors who they were not able to conquer. It is very likely that it was the Spanish who called the Muslim Filipino warriors moro. Hence, the term "moro" at least in the Philippines, came to evolve to mean a Muslim warrior in general. Of course, to the Spanish, this was a derogatory term or at least a negative word. I've met with some different Muslim Filipinos here in Luzon and they had different reactions to the term. One was that it was derogatory much like some racists call African Americans - niggers, Filipinos - flips, and Chinese - chinks (sorry for these terms here but I just used them for illustration and in no way do I use them personally). To other Muslim Filipinos I've talked with, to them it is not really derogatory but just misplaced since we cannot all call the Muslim Filipinos as moros since not all are warriors. We can see that not all of them take it as derogatory but in the latter sense because we have Filipino Muslim groups such as the Moro National Liberation Front and the Moro Islamic Liberation Front. Therefore, these people refer to themselves as moros or Muslim warriors and do not see the term as derogatory. Normal civilians however do not like the term since it would be like labeling them as part of the subversive rebel groups and hence get the ire of the government. Here are my two cents worth. I don't believe that people would be offended if Crafty retained the name of his dog as Moro though of course you can't please everybody. Gumagalang, Ernie Aragon, Jr. U.P. AngKAN ng Mandirigma-LESKAS http://www.upakan.com or http://www.skybusiness.com/powerteam1 ------------------------------ From: "hudginsg" Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 20:01:36 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #515 >The 12 weapons of Kali??? IMHO: Please remember, besides being a great martial artist, Dan I is a someone that is trying to learn as much as he can. I doubt anyone can find any one system that teaches all 12 weapons as Dan describes them. And unless you have devoted your life to the study and make your living by this devotion to the arts, you will never master the 12 weapons. Dan could have used the following: "The arts that I have studied" or he could have called it the "12 weapon arts of the philipines" or anything else. Instead he choose a word that was already out there that could cover these twelve weapons, empty hand arts, and even the healing arts. He used the word Kali which was already in existance. So what if it is not in wide spread use. It fits the purpose of encompasing the weapon arts that Dan I has learned from many varied sources. Bando has many different animal styles. Each is a complete martial art. Except for Dr. Gyi, I doubt there is any one Bando practicioner that has mastered even a majority of them. But the term Bando covers them all. Remember ten years ago, who had ever heard the word email? What I think Dan was trying to do was to use the name/term that best covers these 12 weapons arts that are linked to the filipino martial Arts. He used the word kali. Dan I is trying to preserve the arts and study what is out there and pass it on to others. By the way, one question I have about names. Phillipino, filipino, ??? what is the difference? If I may show my ignorance. Is this like jujitsu and jujuitsu? Standard disclaimers apply. ------------------------------ From: "hudginsg" Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 21:55:59 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #516 > > From: "S. H. Wee" > > Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 16:30:06 +0800 > > Subject: eskrima: Demonstration tricks > > Now what truely amazed me are some of the Qi Gong masters' ability to > > hang 20 lbs dumb bell on their fully erected penises. And yesterday I > > saw it in the news that three Taiwanese Qi Gong masters pulling a > > 50-tonnes fully loaded bus with ropes tied to their penises!! > > [De-lurking for a second] > No offense, I'm sure this takes much concentration, will, etc etc., but.... > *Why would you?* I can't imagine wanting to be able to do the same with my > breasts or anything else...is this a guy thing? > > ;D jocelyne - Roaring Girl > Getting back to the first reference to full shot blast to the ****. Just to let you know what I was told when I was about sixteen by a source which many of you know of. This gentleman told me and several others that Tatsuo Shimabuku (of Isshinryu) was able to draw his vital two members up into his body. Now taking into account my youth and how long ago this was, I am not sure if he meant : a. literally draw his balls up into his body cavity or b. that by using a cat type stance, crouching withdrawing the buttocks extended to the back, and using a sanchin type muscle tension that he that he could protect his **** with the muscles of his thigh so that he could take a full force kick to the groin area. In this position the muscles of the thighs would stop the kick and the kick would not reach the n***. Now, I thought this gentleman meant that Shimabuku could do (a), but I could be wrong and he meant (b). I also had another instructor that witnessed some of these type demo's. He said you didn't see the master taking his student that took these full force strikes to the hospital after the demo was over. Gary H. ------------------------------ From: Chad Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 19:34:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Re: weapons and warfare >>I also happen to know that most of those other weapons are used for >>hunting and warfare; not weapons taught as an art. Well, if weapons aren't used for hunting or warfare, what would we use them for? ===== Chad chad@fullcontacthi.com Full Contact Stickfighting Hawaii http://www.fullcontacthi.com http://www.egroups.com/group/stickfighting __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer. http://experts.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Chad Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 19:42:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Re: Dizon Lineage >> I am sorry but you are mistaken with regards to Felicismo Dizon >> being the teacher of Floro Villabrille. Mr. Dizon was a friend >> and training partner of Mr. Villabrille. > This is the same story we get on the Dizon side of the lineage, > also. But Dizon supposedly never used the name De Cuerdas for his > style, only Eskrima. Ray, what exactly is Dizon's lineage? Is it traceable outside of Angel Cabales' training with him? Does anyone teach? Where does the term "De Cuerdas" come from? I also read somewhere (maybe here) that Angel used a longer stick, but gradually shortened it with time. > > *Why would you?* I can't imagine wanting to be able to do the same > with my > > breasts or anything else...is this a guy thing? > > Probably. Probably started out as a drunken bar bet... :) The Drunken Master style. ===== Chad chad@fullcontacthi.com Full Contact Stickfighting Hawaii http://www.fullcontacthi.com http://www.egroups.com/group/stickfighting __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer. http://experts.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Luis Pellicer Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 11:37:30 +0800 Subject: eskrima: Mime-Version: 1.0 >Now what truely amazed me are some of the Qi Gong masters' ability to >>hang 20 lbs dumb bell on their fully erected penises. And yesterday I >>saw it in the news that three Taiwanese Qi Gong masters pulling a >>50-tonnes fully loaded bus with ropes tied to their penises!! The hair stands on the back of my nape just reading this. ouch. >I am not against anybody pulling trucks and planes with their penises. >And if they can satisfy 1000 women (Luis Pellicer - you are still >welcome to my harem) a night, I am very happy for them. Thanks John, don't tell me they're wearing you out already? LPIII ------------------------------ From: ARNISTE@aol.com Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 23:06:45 EST Subject: eskrima: NAAKESC Rated Stick Fight in 2201 Meowmix to all, The upcoming North American Arnis Kali Eskrima Silat Council(NAAKESC)will be in May 4,5 & 6 2001 in California,U.S.A.This will be rated with belt and cash award for the champions. So for those of you interested watch for more info later This will be open to any one who is Black Belt or Guro in the Arnis/Kali/Eskrima/Silat.Your background will be checked and your school you belong to. So watch for more to come and see you at the PCAT Tourney this Nov. 4,200 Saturday in L.A. Nelson"PinoyKowboy"Trinidad CATSociety Arniste@aol.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 21:43:50 PST Subject: Re: eskrima: Re: Dizon Lineage > >> I am sorry but you are mistaken with regards to Felicismo Dizon > >> being the teacher of Floro Villabrille. Mr. Dizon was a friend > >> and training partner of Mr. Villabrille. > > > This is the same story we get on the Dizon side of the lineage, > > also. But Dizon supposedly never used the name De Cuerdas for his > > style, only Eskrima. > > Ray, what exactly is Dizon's lineage? Is it traceable outside of Angel > Cabales' training with him? Does anyone teach? Where does the term > "De Cuerdas" come from? I also read somewhere (maybe here) that Angel > used a longer stick, but gradually shortened it with time. All I know is the Dizon apparently learned from the old man from Cebu and Josefina, the Blind Princess. Villabrille and Dizon trained together. I think that Dizon was about 15 years older than was Villabrille. Jeff Finder found a Kung Fu (or something) instructor up in Oregon that supposedly was Dizon's nephew or great nephew, but he didn't really learn his uncle's art. De Cuerdas was the style that Gilbert Tenio created. Inayan Dequerdas is a style that Mike Inay developed. Angel apparently used a regular size stick in the 60s, but on him it looked rather long. The shorter length stick came into play in the 70s. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2000 21:48:56 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #517 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.