From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #520 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Fri, 3 Nov 2000 Vol 07 : Num 520 In this issue: eskrima: This, That, and This again...Dizon...Floro...Stickfighting... eskrima: Re: Derobio eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #519 eskrima: Re: Blowgun eskrima: Re: Penis Pull eskrima: PT/DP...Head Gear... eskrima: Power Development Thread Re: eskrima: PT/DP...Head Gear... Re: eskrima: This, That, and This eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1200 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource An open FMA discussion forum provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay, Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Chad Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 15:53:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: This, That, and This again...Dizon...Floro...Stickfighting... >>As I have said before Villabrille was unknown to them, difficult to >>comprehend considering he claimed he was a "champion of the >>Philippines" Alrighty then...He was Filipino...he was a stickfighter...that made him a Filipino STICKFIGHTER, which I suspect is more important than a FILIPINO stickfighter. I also suspect that the guy that places more emphasis on the 'STICKFIGHTER' part of the phrase than the "FILIPINO" part would be a better "stickfighter". Of course, the guy with the emphasis on the "FILIPINO/CHINESE/HAWAIIAN/Whatever" will be the better culturally artistic one. Now, in a death match, where Floro Villabrille has been many times, I think he was a little more concerned with the first one. So mauch talk about who's teacher was better, or who's lineage was better, the man is dead, let's move on. I and I'm sure there are others think the man was great. Some don't, who cares. He was from the Philippines, he went to Kauai. Were the escrimadors that came to Hawaii any better or worse that the ones that stayed in the PI? There is no way to say. His reputation in America came from his death matches here in Hawaii. Does that mean he is not a Filipino champion? He is a Filipino. Why lie about being a champion...he always proved it if someone asked. BTW, this isn't even related, but maybe to the demonstrations/tricks thread...my grandfather tells me, he witnessed Floro knock out a bull on three occasions and drag it behind him as they walk to go fishing. Let's pay some attention to who can do what they can do today, not try to debunk what someone that has passed on will do. When Leo Gaje Jr. passes on, people will say they beat him or something to the extent. Same will go for Top Dog and Cacoy Canete, and Guro Inosanto, and blah blah blah, so forth and so forth. Honest question here...if so many masters in the PI are unhappy with where the FMA is going today or believe that information is inaccurate, then why don't they get this message out via the internet or through this digest? I would be interested in hearing what they have to say. My instructor has told me this before, and I asked again with the same reply, he never knew of Kali, Arnis, Esc(k)rima when he was growing up in Kauai. It was always, "MANYAK.....Kahoy!". He says he remembers Floro's name and Kali, but his father and uncles weren't teaching him terms, they were too busy beating on him with sticks. >>Dizon was supposed to have organised a match with one of the GM's of >>Cebu but didn't show up. If I challenge Tuhon McGrath to a deathmatch, and he doesn't consider me the trouble to fly to Hawaii...what does that mean? Do I get to say, that he is bogus? ;) Bill, I use you as a reference because I know you have a sense of humor...BTW, before anyone reads this wrong, THIS IS NOT A CHALLENGE. Just trying to make a point. >>Cacoy and others intended on challenging him upon his returned and >>trained long and hard for the encounter. They must have respected him to train long and hard for expecting him. How old was Dizon in comparison to Tatang Ilustrisimo? Does anyone know of about when the three-or four- were hanging together. Did Angel know Floro? >>As to the claim that you have to have been to the Philippines to be >>legitimate in the FMA. Does that mean that you have to have been to >>Scandinavia to call yourself a skier? I hope no one tells this to the Jamaican bobsled team. >>that in the Philippines he used a 16" piece of kamagong, so the short >>stick development of Serrada did come from his background. Even though I use between a 30 to 31" stick when we fight, I carry an 18" piece of kamagong in my car as well. Hence the difference of stickfighting in a duelling sense and "self-defense". Also, I don't think I would swing a light 18" rattan as well as I do my kamagong. >>Jeff Finder found a Kung Fu (or something) instructor up in Oregon >>that supposedly was Dizon's nephew or great nephew, but he didn't >>really learn his uncle's art. My grandfather was friends with and my grandmother is cousin to Floro, but I also didn't learn from him or his art. Am looking to hook up though with guys from Hawaii. Nuff said. ===== Chad chad@fullcontacthi.com Full Contact Stickfighting Hawaii http://www.fullcontacthi.com http://www.egroups.com/group/stickfighting __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer. http://experts.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Chad Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 16:09:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Re: Derobio >>"... Derobio Escrima is a style that dates back to pre-Spanish >>times >>according to our late GGM Brauilo Pedoy. We can trace the linage back >>180+ years as GGM Pedoy who was born in 1900 was taught in 1905 and >>his master GGGM Faustino Ablin learned the style when he was young >>and was 90+ when he taught GGM Pedoy." So, I wonder, how "pure" this art is after at least this 180 yrs. Did GM Pedoy add or take out anything. Didn't Salty train with GM Pedoy also? ===== Chad chad@fullcontacthi.com Full Contact Stickfighting Hawaii http://www.fullcontacthi.com http://www.egroups.com/group/stickfighting __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? From homework help to love advice, Yahoo! Experts has your answer. http://experts.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Taojen1@aol.com Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 19:09:48 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #519 In a message dated 11/2/00 6:36:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: Todd writes: << The strongest muscle in the human body is the uterus. >> Dang, just when I was starting to feel human... :) Buddy ------------------------------ From: "S. H. Wee" Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 15:00:19 +0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Blowgun Dear Marc, Can't guarantee that I can beat you in your Dog Bros. fights. But this is one weapon that I can beat you anytime. I can teach you how to use it if your blowgun is similar to the type use by the natives here. Used to have a Penan tribe teacher (they are the best blowgun experts), he can shoot the bird from 50 feet away holding the blowgun with only one hand and disappear into the jungle with more stealth than a ninja. Sincerely, S. H. Wee > Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 17:55:50 -0800 > Subject: eskrima: Yip yip > > A Howl etc: > > Tom Meadows wrote: > > > Perhaps Marc Denny can add to this, as I know that he has a blowgun > > hanging on the wall of his livingroom. > > Nothing to add here except that there are two blowguns on my wall of "Sacred > Relics". One was a gift from Ron Balicki and is quite ornate and beautiful- > he brought it back from a training trip to Indonesia, and the other a > Filipino blow gun that was a gift from Underdog- simple, straight, to the > point. I haven't a clue as to how to use either. ------------------------------ From: "S. H. Wee" Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 08:54:07 +0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Penis Pull Dear Prof. B, I have to disagree with you on this. The second one I only saw the photo in local newspaper but the first one I ACTUALLY saw it with my own eyes (Maybe just like a good magician, it's hard to see the trick with naked eyes), but it looked real enough for me. As for the strikes to throat and groin, I have done the tiger-mouth strike to the Taichi master's throat myself, it felt liked striking a fluffy cotton wool bundle. This particular late Taichi master is quite well known in Southeast Asia. During a visit by the great Mohd. Ali to Singapore in the 70s (I don't have the exact date), he performed the same "trick" and took a strike from Mohd Ali to the throat. It was published all over the local newspapers. Well, penis pull trick is highly risky and certainly not for the amateurs. I have some nasty photos showing the consequence of ill-executed penis pull which I have sent to Ray. As the photos contained the particular anatomy that is considered X-rated, you guys have to get it privately from him. Regards, S. H. Wee > The first is an urban legend (you have not personally seen it)...the second > one, if you look at the photos carefully, you will see they are not using > their penises at all. More gimmicks, specifically a special "rigging"..... > > b ------------------------------ From: "Don Edwards" Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2000 03:18:06 GMT Subject: eskrima: PT/DP...Head Gear... "From: "bbsb" Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 18:27:01 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Stick Fighting Head Gear I am in the market for head gear for stick fighting. Is the head gear and body armor offered by the Doce Pares people also sanctioned for use in WEKAF tournaments? I would like to start entering WEKAF tournaments this summer, with an eye towards entering full contact matches in several years. Any recommendations on good head gear, gloves, etc.? Thanks." Response - try Master Dong Cuesta .. he has a full line of gear.. you can contact him through my web site at www.geocities.com/eureka/2968 .. i have a link to his site and email addy on the top page... Regarding PT origins from Doce Pares .. I'm not sure that PT was a result of a breakoff from DP but I did hear something to the effect from a pretty high level DP source that Doce Pares had a strong "influence" on the start of PT... back around the late '70's...I 'm not really sure how accurate what I heard was but since it came up on here I thought I'd pass this along. Don Edwards Integrated Martial Arts Livingston NJ _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ From: "Kevin Davis" Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 22:50:54 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Power Development Thread Someone inquired about a meter that attached to a heavy bag or kick bag that measured power. The device was called an "Impax" meter. I bought one around ten years ago...didn't work. As part of the research done during the Rodney King trial baton swings were measured using a very sophisticated piece of equipment called a "load cell," (I believe the company was Bio-Dynamics). Anyhow, trained police officers struck the load cell with the side handle baton or PR-24. The impacts were measured in psi. The most interesting thing out of the study, IMHO, was that a female civilian employee was able to generate substantially more power with her strikes than the "trained" males. Turns out the female/civilian was a soft-ball player and "put her hips into it." Since the source of all biomechanical power is the hips, hip rotation is crucial to power development. Reference hitting with power. Sticking your strikes or letting all forward momentum "die" on target will insure energy transfer. In police circles we call these strikes "forward fluid shockwave strikes." It doesn't take seconds to transfer energy but rather "sticking" your shots. BTW I think that lighter sticks that flex permit more energy to transfer. Also a non-flexible baton will transfer its energy into your shoulder/trap causing more fatigue. Regards, KD ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 20:39:59 PST Subject: Re: eskrima: PT/DP...Head Gear... > Regarding PT origins from Doce Pares .. I'm not sure that PT was a result of > a breakoff from DP but I did hear something to the effect from a pretty high > level DP source that Doce Pares had a strong "influence" on the start of > PT... back around the late '70's...I 'm not really sure how accurate what I > heard was but since it came up on here I thought I'd pass this along. I think it was the early/mid 70s. GT Gaje supposedly lived with and trained in DP several months under a senior student of Cacoy Canete's. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 20:46:48 PST Subject: Re: eskrima: This, That, and This > How old was Dizon in comparison to Tatang Ilustrisimo? Dizon was about 8 years older than Tatang. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2000 21:05:22 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #520 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.