From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #529 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Mon, 6 Nov 2000 Vol 07 : Num 529 In this issue: eskrima: Serrada origins eskrima: Re: Tantric stuff eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #528 eskrima: Schools in LA area eskrima: To Venerable Dr. An Tzu Re: eskrima: Serrada origins eskrima: list down eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1200 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource An open FMA discussion forum provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay, Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sidney525@aol.com Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2000 19:04:07 EST Subject: eskrima: Serrada origins At the Master Jimmy Tacosa seminar in Chicago recently, Jimmy had discussed his research on the origins of serrada. He feels that it was a battlefield art used particularily by Christian Filipinos and their Spanish allies versus Muslim and anti-Spanish Filipinos. Further, the main weapon was an iron bar used in conjuction with a shield. This is why it is felt that the strikes are so short and in-tight, because you don't have a lot of space in a battlefield full of men especially with a shield in the other hand. Finally, he said that GM Cabales didn't use the term serrada until the mid-1970's. He used it to distinguish his styles from other FMA. He originally used the term eskrima-arnis. Sid FKEAC ------------------------------ From: Todd Ellner Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 16:14:35 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Tantric stuff Come on guys. Enough is enough. This left FMA a long time ago and has degenerated into an ethnic and religious war. Please take it somewhere else. ------------------------------ From: "David Eke" Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2000 11:56:00 +1100 Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #528 >You may not realize it, sir, but you are a racist spreading racist and >incorrect views. >End of discussion. If you knew John you would understand how really stupid this comment is. Maybe reading his name at the top of the post might help. >As Ashley pointed out and that others including myself have all said before (so >many times) many of the quotes that are attributed to Guro Inosanto are >wrong/misquoted that the basis of many genuine points get lost on. I quote directly from his book, how can it be a misquote. Clearly its time to move on and I will not make any more comments (until next time). However, a point to reflect on is how polarized opinions are. They refect two clear points of view which appear to be supported by two very specific groups. One group Filipinos living in the Philippines (and some people like me that have lived there)and then others. I think people need to ask WHY? The fact that Guro D has not been to the Philippines is important to ME, it says something to ME. For most this means nothing to them however, he is a good teacher and has much to offer others. I have no personal axe to grind (I am not aligned with any particular group and I do not host seminars. I do not run camps to the Philippines) I simply have an opinion and feel free to voice it. I don't get bent out of shape by people expressing other opinions, I have listened, taken some of it on board and left some where I think it belongs. ------------------------------ From: "Don Edwards" Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 01:39:58 GMT Subject: eskrima: Schools in LA area From: "Randy Brannan" Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2000 19:36:31 -0800 Subject: eskrima: West L.A. schools My brother is interested in any good FMA, Silat, or JKD schools in the Culver City or Santa Monica area(California). Anybody know of any? Response: Try the IMB Academy.. Sifu Richard Bustillo... its on 22109 S.Vermont Ave off Carson Blvd. in Torrence (310)787-8793.. all I can say is one of the great instructors of our time if you want JKD, FMA, boxing, muay thai, BJJ etc..etc..etc.. Don Edwards _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------ From: John Chow Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2000 14:13:32 +1100 Subject: eskrima: To Venerable Dr. An Tzu *************************************************************** >Venerable Dr. An Tzu (William Upton-Knittle) wrote (on that sexual >practices are not part of standard Tantric traditions, and contrary to it):- > >Most of what you say is, although passionate, not correct. Venerable Dr. An Tzu: >Just to be clear, Mr. Chow stated the first two lines....mine is the one >with the arrow next to it. *************************************************************** My response: Venerable Dr. An Tu, you stated in the posting just prior, and I was responding to it, and let me quote you:- >On those hard pounding penises: It is a standard training regiment for >Taoist Sexual Yoga. It is not standard training in traditional tantric practice. In fact, it's the opposite of the practice. Thus, it is definitely proven that you stated that such sexual practices are 'not standard training in traditional tantric practice. In fact, it's the opposite of the practice'. 'Opposite of' means 'contrary to'. This is in Digest V7 #515. Please refer. Are implying I am lying when there is evidence in black and white that you made the statement? Let the readers decide, not me, neither you. I rest my case. ********************************************************************** John Chow: >Please note: Chinese and Japanese Tantra (Tung Mit, Mit Tsung, Mikkyo, >Shinggon) does not contain Highest Yoga Tantra sections because it died >out in China before spreading to Japan. Chinese and Japanese Tantra is >based principally on the Maha Vairocana and Vajrasattva cycle of >Tantras. It can not generate the secret consumate bliss, but is very >good at the foundations. Venerable Dr. An Tzu: You may not realize it, sir, but you are a racist spreading racist and incorrect views. End of discussion. *********************************************************************** My response: Venerable Dr. An Tzu, You have not lost your cool, have you? I am sorry to have upset you from your tranquil state of meditative samadhi. Please look at my responses and statements carefully before jumping the gun and shooting yourself in the foot. First, I am a Chinese myself. I am not merely writing under a Chinese name. How can I be accused of being a racist when I made a critical evaluation of Chinese/Japanese Tantra? I am not, and I deny that I am a Tibetan or caucasian by race. Speculate as much as you want about my racial origins. I say I am Chinese, and I do not mind criticising any Chinese aspect that is not 'up to standard'. Second, any ordinary person reading my post would know that I stated Japanese/Chinese Tantra differs from Tibetan Tantra in that it is missing the Highest Yoga Tantra. This is a fact! This may explain why some adherents of Japanese/Chinese Tantra say that Tibetan Tantra is 'Left Hand Path'. I certainly did not call them 'racists'. I know their Tantra does not have that component and therefore it is logical for them to misunderstand another view point. Logical? I would, again, request that since Tibetan Tantra (Si Mit) is not the domain of their expertise, they do not make comments and pronouncement as to what constitute our Tantra and what elements within our Tantra is contrary to our Tantra. Let us, the Tibetan Tantrists make that comment. Is that fair, just and logical to you, Venerable Sir? In addition, I am not the only Chinese who has admitted this. There have been publications to support this fact, as far back as the 1960s and 1970s, and from America too! As an example, please refer to the late Chinese meditation master C. M. Chen of Adi Buddha Mandala who was versed in both Chinese and Tibetan Tantra. I believe he was from California. And, Venerable Dr. An Tzu, let me quote myself.... "Chinese and Japanese Tantra ....... (snipped)..... but is very good at the foundations". This is factual and is a complement. How can you accuse me of being racists, and not only that, but spreading racist views? We are being factual, not racist. In fact, being Chinese, and admitting that our Tantra lacked this very high element, we have humbled ourselves to admit that the other sect has a superior element. How can that be rascist? Are you saying we hate ourselves? Venerable Dr. An Tzu, please re-compose yourself and think this out carefully. (I have not responded on you accusing me of spreading incorrect views, but let us agree to disagree on this. For me, I think the opposite, so let us not go into in this). Venerable Dr. An Tzu, please be aware that you have called me a racist in a public forum. You should know the legal repercussions of that. This forum has hundreds of readers, and is accessable worldwide by possibly hundreds of thousands more internationally. Please be advised to abstain from such accusations that defame another member on the list. Calling someone a racist here can be dangerous. I call on all members to note what the Venerable has done. I let you go this time, as I think you are new to the list and may not be aware. But do not do it again. By the way, I was going to make the previous post my last post, but since you publicly called me a racist in a public forum, it is my right to reply. I have no intention of responding to you again. I am responding this time to set the record straight. Sorry Ray, and readers for indulging again......... John Chow Kali Ilustrisimo and Lameco Eskrima ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 20:27:46 PST Subject: Re: eskrima: Serrada origins > At the Master Jimmy Tacosa seminar in Chicago recently, Jimmy had discussed > his research on the origins of serrada. He feels that it was a battlefield > art used particularily by Christian Filipinos and their Spanish allies versus > Muslim and anti-Spanish Filipinos. > Further, the main weapon was an iron bar used in conjuction with a shield. > This is why it is felt that the strikes are so short and in-tight, because > you don't have a lot of space in a battlefield full of men especially with a > shield in the other hand. Ooookkkkkkk..... :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 20:36:51 PST Subject: eskrima: list down I'm heading off to Ohio in a few hours for some vacation, business, and to teach a couple of seminars. As a result the list may be down for the next 1.5 weeks. If I can dial in to publish some digest issues I'll do just that. But just in case... For those in the US, don't forget to vote tomorrow. Happy Birthday US Marines on November 10. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2000 20:38:03 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #529 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.