From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #546 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Tues, 21 Nov 2000 Vol 07 : Num 546 In this issue: eskrima: Regarding Joke post eskrima: Patience and training eskrima: re: Baratero: eskrima: Baratero eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #541 eskrima: What's in a word Re: eskrima: re: Baratero: eskrima: Dear Friends and students of Grand Master Remy Presas (fwd) eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1200 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource An open FMA discussion forum provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay, Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Trickruner@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:07:43 EST Subject: eskrima: Regarding Joke post I'm a half blood Indian and I didn't find the joke post with Indians in it to be offensive in any way. I laughed about it and sent it to all my friends and family. My dad found it to be pretty funny (he's a full blood and a Prof in Native American History) Don't get so caught up in all this PC crap b/c there was no evil intent in it. Jeremy Frost ------------------------------ From: "Tom Meadows" Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 17:35:44 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Patience and training RE:From: Sinjay36@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 15:51:06 EST Subject: eskrima: RE: FRANK CUCCI THANK YOU ALL FOR THE REPLYS. I would like to recieve instruction in his system and get to meet and talk with him( i plan to become a SEAL one day) I was aware he started LINXX academy but in the PANTHER ad it says he has a School call Functional Defensive Concepts here and there is a school in the phonebook by that name,but i cant get in touch with anyone there, so i guess im SOL. Plus the Linxx website is down or something. ANGRY, JAY Jay, It is interesting that half a dozen people took their time to inform you of Frank Cucci's qualifications and access information, and that in less than two days you appear to have given up locating him for training. Instructor's do seminars, take vacations, and websites crash. Seals have a better than 90% failure rate in their basic training and 100% has happened , and the training finishes with a 72 hour training ans swimming marathon. There is an excellent video out on the subject available at most video stores in the special interest section. And while you are there, rent the "Kung Fu" series pilot episode. It will explain why the traditional Chinese systems made you wait outside the school in the snow for a few days before they let you in....without nintendo games or e-mail to while the time away. Tom Meadows ------------------------------ From: "Johnaleen" Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 21:00:29 -0500 Subject: eskrima: re: Baratero: Baratero: Spanish, name for the knife-fighting method of the gypsies, using 'la navajo' Navaja (folding knive), 'el cuchillo' (knive) and 'la tijera' (chisel ?). A Spanish book on this method was published in 1849.Also there is a book in Spain I believe called... Manual del Baratero, which is an authentic and contemporary book on the subject. but I don't have more information about it for sure.. The knife that is used is specific to the style I believe..The navaja itself is a very large folding knife that dates back to the 15th century, with possible references going back as early as the 1200's. It has a ratchet-like locking mechanism that is quite strong and makes a cool clicking sound when opened. It consists of gearteeth cut into the tang of the balde that interlock with a hole in the backspring, which is typically an eighth of an inch thick and runs 3/4 the length of the handle and it's full width. A pullring or lever-like device attached to the spring at eh base of the blade is lifted up to release the lock. The classic dimensions of the blade are one palm's length long and three or four fingers wide, however examples with blades two or three times that long are not uncommon. The largest on record was four and a half feet when opened. They are most often clip pointed, however drop points and double-edged versions are common. Their handles are usually curved, as early examples were made from the solid ends of horns. However, straight handled pieces are known, and the shape of the handle is largely dictated by the geometry of the blade; a blade with much belly will naturally need a curved handle, while double edged and straight blades need a straight handle, or the handle won't properly cover the blade when closed. They can either be highly ornate, featuring file work on the blade and beautifully sculpted handles with precious metal inlays in their wooden handle scales, or they may be utilitarian and unadorned. Ray if i had time i could give you more here but...... Johnaleen...... F.A.T.E. Facilitating Awareness Through Empowerment 1-888-526-4626 F.A.T.E@f-a-t-e.org www.f-a-t-e.org " Well Behaved Women Seldom Make History" ------------------------------ From: "Michael Koblic" Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 19:07:43 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Baratero "Anyone have any info on a knife fighting style named Baratero? It may be a style from Spain." Is this not the style described by Mr. J. Loriega in "Seville steel"? I believe Mr. Loriega is/was a member of this list. Mike Koblic, Quesnel BC ------------------------------ From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 22:16:48 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #541 Rey, I know the fact the Mark Wiley has interview Maestro Modesto "Moody" Madrigal, one of the two living Grandmaster of Doce Pares in Paete he is the Son of the Third Generation Doce Pares Maestro Felizicimo "Pulis" Madrigal. If I am not mistaken Mark Wiley includes that to his Book to be Published. Dont worry I will asked my Uncle to try to get a Copy of the Record Membership on early 1900's. Where Felizisimo Dizon names included as member/participants in the Doce Pares Banahaw Gathering. Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet > BTW. Felezisimo Dizon name is on record of the Doce Pares of Laguna back in > 1930's. Dear Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet, Would it be possible to obtain a copy of the record mentioned above? It is of historical interest to those of us in the Dizon lineage. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com --------------------- >> ------------------------------ From: "Tom Meadows" Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 19:27:39 -0800 Subject: eskrima: What's in a word Greetings, One of the biggest problems in the American culture is an embarassing tendency to bastardize the language to please the illiterate or special interest groups. Remember when the word "free" actually meant that? And crosswalks were just that, not "pedestrian friendly". This approach has brought us, through "media standardizations" such terms as Filipino for Philippino, Mao ZeDong for Mao Tse Tung, and the like. All of this has come about in order to compensate for the astonishing inability of our schools to teach people to read and write the common language, and the necessity of the media trying to present the information to 200 million people on a common ground . A recent post brought this up and I am going to go on a little rant here: Here is the post: <<>> For me this is both a special interest group issue and one of common language usage. Baseball teams are seriously competitive sports with the American and National leagues having about 500 players hand picked from the world population. These players can easily pick up 2 to 10 million dollars a year. It fits in the billion dollar a year industry category. At that level marketing is very serious, because people tend to try to identify with the teams, their players and its image. This billion dollar special interest group believes that Americans have VERY positive feelings about the words, Brave, Indian, and Redskins. Why? Because the attributes of the Indian nations are perceived as warlike, and being unbeatable fighters, and this is what the teams are supposed to emulate. This is hardly a case of not taking Indians seriously. Did I use the word Indian? I used it for the first 30 years of my life without offending anybody, and everybody in America I have met knows what I mean by the word. Those who paid attention in school will occasionally ask for clarification with the query " East Indian or American Indian?". If I used the term Native American on any of my papers in school it would have specifically meant anyone born in America to my teachers. If I used the word Indian they would have known exactly which people I was refering to. And back to Kim's post. The word brave , in the new Encarta dictionary has 4 meanings one of which is "A native American warrior". Absolutely no bad connotations or denotations there. I was very surprised when I looked up Indian and Redskin. The word Indian in the same dictionary says it refers to Native Americans and is specifically listed as offensive. Even better, the term Redskin is listed as a highly offensive term, and described as a "dated" offensive term. The use of the term dated means that it has been replaced with a more currently offensive term, which I presume is "Indian" . It is interesting to note that a term that I was originally taught as being descriptive and respectful to a race of people is now considered a significant racial slur. As I am concluding here I realize that Kim is by and large right, the baseball teams names are racial slurs in current language usage.When the names were chosen 50 year ago or better they were considered respectful and carrying good atributes. Language usage has changed, and I must bow to that common usage or be perceived as a racist, simply for using language I was formally taught in our school system. Regarding the newer term "Native American": Anyone born in America is a native American by dictionary definition (current). By current dictionary definition a "Native American" (with the capital "N") refers specifically to people born in America of Mongoloid descent which includes the Inuit (or Esquimaux as they were once called..oops sorry, current spelling is Eskimo), and people from Eastern Asia. The term "mongoloid" once was as valid as a geographical descriptor, and a normal part of medical terminology, and it has since been discontinued due to it being used by the general populace as a pejorative for people with Down's syndrome. Although it is required for the definition of Native American, it is no longer used technically. Since the difference between myself and Kim in terms of our both being native americans, is only discernible in the written form, then we are at the same place as poor Marc Denny's dog being called Morro which sounds just like the racial slur Moro, but is spelled differently, so as to not offend anyone. All of this really messes up what was once simple communication amongst "People of America", and I think we should actively work to not take offense at any particular usage of language, and simply study it as history. And learn from it. If we can learn from these changes in our language in just 40 years, it may shed some light on the controversy over the terms Kali, Eskrima ( Escrima),and Arnis( Arnes) Tom Meadows ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 20:32:04 PST Subject: Re: eskrima: re: Baratero: > Baratero: Spanish, name for the knife-fighting method of the gypsies, using > 'la navajo' Navaja (folding knive), ... Ah, now I recall... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 21:47:07 PST Subject: eskrima: Dear Friends and students of Grand Master Remy Presas (fwd) Forwarded message: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: David Hoffman > Subject: Professor Presas > > Dear Friends and students of Grand Master Remy Presas, > > Professor has asked me to send out notification of his current medical > condition. > > Two days ago Professor Presas underwent successful surgery to re move a > brain tumor which was discovered during his European tour. His doctor, a > leading specialist, was able to fully remove the tumor. Professor is making > remarkable progress in recovering from the surgery and was transferred from > intensive care to the regular ward in less than 24 hours. He continues to > recover at an exceptional rate. Professor experienced no adverse effects > from the surgery and retains his full physical and mental faculties. > > Yvette, myself, and his good friend and physician Dr. Randi Schea have been > with him since joining him at the hospital in Hamburg, Germany. In Hamburg > Professor was well looked after by Gabby Rolloff, Astrid, Yamil and Tim > Hartman. Ken Smith, Jeff Delaney, Dr. Randi Schea, D.J., Yvette and I all > flew to Germany to lend our support and fulfil his wishes. Many other would > have gladly come to visit or attempted to call but at the Doctors request > visits and calls where curtailed. > > Despite his excellent progress, according to his doctors, the recovery from > this type of procedure requires calm and little stimulation. Therefore, > under doctors advise, Professor has specifically and clearly requested that > all of his dear friends and students, without exception, refrain from > visiting or calling or any form of contact until such time as they are > specifically requested to do so. Cards may be sent C/O > > Yvette Wong 2553 Blackwood Street, Victoria BC CANADA V8t 3V9 > > Please refrain from calling and keep the card content simple, positive and > above all cheerful. He will read them when he feels ready. > > You may please pass on this information, his wish for complete privacy, and > the good news of his successful surgery and exceptionally fast recovery at > your discretion as Professor wishes it to be known. Please emphasize the > need to not call or visit and only send cards in any notification you make. > I am, unfortunately, only able to send out a few e-mails as I am far from my > computer and have only a couple of addresses available. Dr. Shea has been > asked to organize a wider notification as his schedule allows and any > important, urgent, Arnis business questions should be directed to him in > his capacity as Chairman of the IMAF board if they can not wait, again at > Professors request. Please use discretion as Dr. Schea is extremely busy > having given greatly of his time at this time of need and is being inundated > with calls and e-mails. I will attempt to forward or answer e-mail to my > address at david@modernarnis.net. Please understand I do not have ready > access to a computer at this time. > > Sincerely Yours, > > David Hoffman > Vice-President, IMAF ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2000 21:49:50 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #546 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.