From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #548 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Tues, 21 Nov 2000 Vol 07 : Num 548 In this issue: eskrima: Use of term Moro eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #547 eskrima: 2001 Doce Pares Seminar Schedule (fwd) eskrima: serrada eskrima: makes sense to me eskrima: Serrada Stick of Blade eskrima: Bits and Pieces eskrima: FRANK CUCCI---- PATIENCE eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #547 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #547 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #547 eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1200 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource An open FMA discussion forum provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay, Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tenchi90@aol.com Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 12:18:38 EST Subject: eskrima: Use of term Moro I agree with Jay as far as usage of terms. I beg to differ on the usage of "moro" though. My dad's side of the family is from Mindanao from the Catabato and Surigao areas (not sure of spellings) to be exact. The use of the word "moro" is often used as a deragatory term (in those areas). I innocently said moro (when I was there 2yrs.ago) and I was quickly corrected/reprimanded. To call a Muslim a Moro is the same as calling a Chinese guy a chink or an Afro American a nigger. No offense/malice is directed to those post members of both Chinese (I'm 1/2 Chinese) and Afro-American decent. I'm just posting my point across. Just like anything in life we learn, what not to say and when/where to say. GAV ------------------------------ From: "Mike Casto" Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 12:53:00 -0500 Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #547 << From: "Dale" Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 08:42:53 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Native american arts Has anyone on the list had any experience with Native American martial arts? I'd be interested in hearing how similar or dissimilar they are to many of the Filipino martial arts. I remember an article in Full Contact years ago that interviewed Blaize Loong (sp?) that studied NA martial arts as well as the arts mentioned here on this list. >> I've not had any exposure to NA martial arts ... except a brief discussion on another forum with a guy who teaches some of them. However, I have seen Blaise Loong's video, "The Secrets of Blays-Halla: The Discipline of Steel." If I remember correctly (and I could be mistaken), he says that what he primarily got from his training with his NA elders was survival (healing, hunting, tracking, etc.) more than fighting. The majority of the video (based on the terminology he used) is FMA/IMA. However, in some of the segments where he is having mock fights, he uses stuff that seems to come from his training in Viking arts and stuff that may have come from NA arts ... but predominately, it's FMA/IMA. It's an interesting and well-done video, though. You might want to check it out (it's been a while since I've seen it and, as I said, I may be mis-remembering it a bit). Regards, Mike ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 10:18:59 PST Subject: eskrima: 2001 Doce Pares Seminar Schedule (fwd) Forwarding... Ray - ---------------------------------------------------- Greetings everyone: I apologize to you all for not being in communique-do regarding GM Cacoy Canete's seminar schedule, availability of equipment, books and his video's. Up to this point this my confirmed schedules with more to come as far the GM's seminar's next year is concerned: March: (?) - San Jose, Ca. 24th- 25th The 1st Doce Pares World Doce Pares Open Invitational championship and seminar at the IMB, Los Angeles. April: 14th - Chico California; Fairfield, Ca.; Albany, Ca. May: 5th - Daytona, Ohio; Indiana; Colorado June: 3dr- New Jersey; 9th - Boston; (17?) New York; (?) - Montreal; 23rd - Portland; 24th - Seattle July: 14th - San Jose, ca.; 29th - Daily City, Ca; (?) - Van Nuys Also awaiting confirmation from: Cincinnati, Ohio; San Diego, Ca; Sacramento, Ca. and Mexico. Also Note: *Equipment availability, books and video's not until Mid-December. A delay in the Islands *I have some uniforms available with the new Doce Pares Federation designs. *I will make the Rules for the Doce Pares available after the holiday's. Basically it is the same as the WEKAF with a slight modifications. *I have Sticks and stick-bags available Feel free to E-mail me. Happy holiday's to all of you and God bless all of you. Rev. Rupert Bisquera ------------------------------ From: "Tom Skoglind" Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 12:04:45 -0600 Subject: eskrima: serrada > I have only seen Serrada a couple of times so I might be wrong about this > but it seems to me that Serrada treats the stick more as a stick while > Defondo treats it more as a blade. Serrada is a blade art. Many of the considerations we give to the blade may be subtle, or even unnoticed if you are not specifically looking for them, but they are certainly there. Tom Skoglind tskoglin@schmitt-title.com ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 10:47:36 -0800 Subject: eskrima: makes sense to me A Howl of Greeting to All: Jay wrote: > Hi 'all: > I just wanted to comment about the word "Moro". > > My instructor is a Filipino-Muslim and says that the term "Moro" was given by the Spanish to the Muslims (just as they called Filipinos "Filipinos" and "Indios"). It was a descriptor, not a slur. He does not find that term offensive, and neither do the three Filipino-Muslim friends of his. In fact, they sometimes use it to refer to other Muslims and his martial art. > > However, I know from my parents and others that many FILIPINOS look down on Muslims because of ethnocentrism, and to THEM, to call someone a "Moro" has the same connotation as caucasians calling someone a "Jew" who is cheap, or a "Jap" if they betray you. I guess it all depends on what you mean when you say it. > > Jay This makes complete sense to me. yip, Crafty Dog ------------------------------ From: EGJundis@aol.com Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 14:04:36 EST Subject: eskrima: Serrada Stick of Blade Ingmund Forberg wrote, << I have only seen Serrada a couple of times so I might be wrong about this but it seems to me that Serrada treats the stick more as a stick while Defondo treats it more as a blade. >> What follows is only one view point: mine. Bring out your salt. (An explanation for our international members unfamiliar with the saying , "take it with a grain of salt." It means remember it's only an opinion) =) It depends on who is teaching the art and the progression they use. I know a number of SFPD officers who have trained in basic Serrada as a stick art and they swear by it. They feel confident based on training and experience that they will be able diminish and/or stop an attacks energy and then lock their suspect up. (Hopefully with the help of back up; they are not stupid.) Point being is that Serrada is a highly effective stick art with nuances that one might not use with a blade. A high percentage of basic Serrada training is learning how to jam and block an opponents energy. IMO, that is the last thing a beginning student would want to do in a fight with blades. In the book, Bruce Lee: Jeet Kun Do-Bruce Lee's Commentaries on the Martial Way Volume III page 109 (the 1997 Tuttle book edited by John Little) Lee list 5 types of fighters. Basic Serrada trains in the realm of fighter number 4:"One who mainly guards and parries and is ready to crash." I would also agree with the assessment made a couple of months ago (It was actually a general assessment and not specific to Serrada) that basic Serrada lock’n’block is Stick and Dagger and not blade and dagger. Understanding the distinctions allows me to create a context that is more beneficial for my students. It allows me to create an environment that allows even timid student to feel safe with "parrying, guarding, and crashing." Having differing context also allows me to focus on developing nuances like: applied structural alignment, spatial relationships, confidence, competence, kinesthetic sense, stereognostic sense, and spatial, tactile, & audio reactions. At the higher levels of training Serrada does have a blade only curriculum with different intents and nuances. Serrada also has a knife fighting curriculum (using various grips) as well as true Espada y Daga. I never saw a curriculum for Doble Daga but I do know several Serrada Instructors that are very good at it. At this level their are many similarities between Kali Ilustrisimo and Serrada. On a side note, about a year ago I attended a seminar taught by Guro Loki Jorgensen on Pekiti Tirsia (I had a great time BTW. That is a system with a clear teaching progression that also produces great instructors). I was happily surprised that Loki thought I was a Lameco practitioner. Lameco is highly influenced by the movements of GM Tatang Ilustrisimo. IMO, Bakbakan Kali Ilustrisimo and Lameco have a high cross over training and fighting tools and theories. Also when I train blade intent, I prefer to train with a blade: whether that be with a wooden, synthetic, or metal replica. This has also been my experience with other Serrada practitioners who train at a high level. So I would agree with your assessment that Serrada treats a stick as a stick. Serrada also treats a blade like a blade. Masters just do it. Enjoy, Elrik G. Jundis Director/Head Instructor School of Pilipino Martial Arts ------------------------------ From: Scott Wiggins Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 19:56:16 +0000 Subject: eskrima: Bits and Pieces Hi Folks, Having just de-lurked from a rather busy period I'm on the prowl for info and a few comments on some other threads: 1) Does anybody know of some good ankle exercises. I sprained mine badly a few eeks ago and I'm still getting pain. Training around it hasn't done much good and it looks like a lay off might be the only cure. Not good when you have a Muay Thai grading in 2 weeks. 2) The Sevillian Steel Book - Recommended by me 3) The Defensive Edge tapes by Ron Balicki. Ron very generously arranged a copy for me in PAL and both I and my instructor hihgly rate them. We think they are second to none for showing drills and situation defence even on the floor. The blade is a big problem in the UK as our gun laws are so strict so we cover this stuff early on. 4) I had an insight into the axe the other day from my Guro, anybody know of any websites/books where I can get some more info on this interesting weapon. Train Hard, Scott Wiggins Progressive Kali/Eskrima System ------------------------------ From: Sinjay36@aol.com Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 15:30:07 EST Subject: eskrima: FRANK CUCCI---- PATIENCE HELLO I havent given up and its been way longer than 2 days its been like 2 months, and i know most everything about SEAL training, my mom works 2 blocks away from LITTLE CREEK AMP. Base where SEALS are stationed and i talk to them all the time, but i would like to receive instruction in Mr. Cucci's system. ALSO whats the video on SEALS called? THANK YOU JAY ------------------------------ From: MdlAgdLftr@aol.com Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 16:26:10 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #547 In a message dated 11/21/00 9:02:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Hi, I have only seen Serrada a couple of times so I might be wrong about this but it seems to me that Serrada treats the stick more as a stick while Defondo treats it more as a blade. By the way, has anyone ordered tapes from P. Greg Alland (www.pekititirsia.com and kalisilat.com)? I'm thinking of ordering but would like to know it anyone know what their delivery times are. Take care, IF __ >> I guess it depends on which particular school of Serrada you are referring to...I always understood Inayan Serrada to be a blade art. That is the way Mike Inay presented it, and my current instructor to this day teaches it as a blade art. BTW, the late Suro Mike Inay had quite a reputation in Hawaii as a knife man par excellence. Kim Satterfield ------------------------------ From: MdlAgdLftr@aol.com Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 16:47:32 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #547 In a message dated 11/21/00 9:02:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Pardon my humble $0.02 worth, but isn't it reasonable to consider that just because some are not offended by something, the concerns of those who ARE offended should be ignored? >> Thanks for the post, Mik...I don't mean to keep a non-FMA post going here, but my family's history is rife with stories of forced migrations to a reservation hundreds of miles away from their homes, and certain things aren't appreciated. American Indians (I agree with the "Native American" assessment by one contributor here, we're all Native), have never been taken seriously by Western society, mainly because there aren't many full-bloods left, and we have no real voice. I was at the Cherokee reservation in North Carolina just this last summer visiting, and was told by a young Cherokee woman there that to find a true full-blood these days, even on the reservation, is rare. Indians are truly a vanishing people, which is the original goal of the Western government in the first place. As Lawrence Fishburne so aptly stated in the movie "Boyz in the Hood," the fastest way to wipe out a people is to take away their ability to reproduce. So, Mr. Frost, regardless of your bloodline, this isn't "PC crap" to all of us, so please speak for yourself. Some of us don't see the flippancy in the Seminole joke post as funny. And Mr. Keenan, you are 100% correct about Western government being modeled somewhat after the Iroquois Confederacy...Western man was fascinated by the complexity and structure of the government system of a supposedly savage people. The Iroquois system of government was truly a governing system of the people, by the people, and for the people. One side note...any research into the presidency of Abraham Lincoln will turn up that although Mr. Lincoln was very concerned with human rights in regard to African Americans, he was a bitter enemy of American Indians, and some of the worst atrocities committed against the Indians were carried out during his administration. The idea of annihilation of the American Indian as a people was at it's worst under Mr. Lincoln. The hero of one group or groups of people may not necessarily be though of in the same light by another people. Kim Satterfield ------------------------------ From: MdlAgdLftr@aol.com Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 17:25:02 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #547 In a message dated 11/21/00 9:02:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << Has anyone on the list had any experience with Native American martial arts? I'd be interested in hearing how similar or dissimilar they are to many of the Filipino martial arts. I remember an article in Full Contact years ago that interviewed Blaize Loong (sp?) that studied NA martial arts as well as the arts mentioned here on this list. - ------------------------------------------- >> Actually, early in my martial arts career, I did a bit of research into the arts of my own people, since I found that, as Guro Dan says, every nation and/or people have a martial art. What I found were arts that, concerning hand to hand, more competition oriented that warlike or "combat applicable" for want of a better term. American Indian males were highly competitive, and held wrestling matches regularly. The arts vary a bit from tribe to tribe, but were generally highly grappling oriented, with kicking, particularly to the body and legs, used as entry, if you will. Punching was not practiced a lot, but forearm blows and elbows were used extensively. American Indians had a philosophy concerning actual combat that paralleled the Filipino attitude...they would never consider going into battle without a weapon, so their "combat" arts centered on the use of impact weapons (war clubs), and spears, with thrusting a main method of attack and defense. Also depending upon which tribe you are researching, you will find differing attitudes about killing in combat. Some Indian tribes' combat arts concentrated on killing quickly, while in other arts "courting coup" was a highly regarded and respected practice ("coup" is getting close enough to a mortal enemy and touching him with a highly decorated "coup stick," then getting away without being harmed or having to kill the enemy). The bravery required to carry this off is admirable, and those with many "coup" were, needless to say, highly respected. Hope I was of some help with your question, Kim Satterfield ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2000 15:05:25 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #548 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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