From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #561 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Thur, 30 Nov 2000 Vol 07 : Num 561 In this issue: re: eskrima: combat drills ? re: eskrima: Re: Planting The Rice [none] eskrima: Re: Empty Hands Can Do eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #560 eskrima: Ranging and closing eskrima: Re: Striking the Ground eskrima: Re: Plantint the rice eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1200 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource An open FMA discussion forum provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay, Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dave Sheehy Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 13:29:31 PST Subject: re: eskrima: combat drills ? Carlton wrote: > I'm a late entrant to this thread. When I first was learning I thought > drills where garbage. They where like the busiwork the teacher gave you > after teaching a concept. Remember those days of pages of long division? > That is what a drill is. I always thought and learned by doing in pretty > heavy sparring in "beltless stay where you think you can hang" type classes > that put realistic experiance before drill and regurgitated technique. > That stuff was there but with less emphasis. Nearly 30 years later I > beleive that Drills are the slow way but possible way to learn. Sparring is > the fast way and the more realistic the faster. Realistic sparring is most > important in the formative years to develop real time real contact skills. Well, my opinion differs somewhat from yours. I agree that "realistic" sparring (however you want to define it) is a necessary component to being able to use your stuff in real combat. IMNSHO, throwing someone into sparring before they have some basic skills and reflexes will allow them to develop some ability to apply the stuff BUT it will also instill a bunch of bad habits early on that you will have to break later. I've studied several systems over the past 20 some years and I must say I like the progression Serrada uses to take you from basics to sparring the best. I know other systems better and in more depth but I can *USE* Serrada. > The nuances of technique can always be learned later and that is really what > advanced people do anyway as they try to learn "advanced" technique. Drills > take on a greater importance once the sparring/combat skills are forged so > that one can retain muscle memory and memory of technique and technique > application. Agreed. Isn't muscle memory one of the key differences between an experienced person and an inexperienced person? How do you get muscle memory? Repetitions be it throught drills, kata, sparring, whatever. IME, sparring is too random for instilling muscle memory for a broad base of physical motions. In sparring, most people learn a small subset of skills that become their repetoire and many only expand those skills when forced to. A good set of drills or kata teach the entire set of skills. It's a just a different philosophy of training really. Do you want to learn a small set of skills that you can apply quickly or do you want to work on the entire skill set and be able to apply it less quickly? In today's fast food mentality the former choice is much more popular. It's also popular in times of war when you need to pump out a bunch of infantry as quickly as possible. It is my understanding that Largomano was used by the Philippine Rangers because a basic version of it could be taught quickly. Suppose I were to do 2 sparring sessions, one after the other and during a second workout I were to do a lock and block session followed by a sparring session. During the sparring session after the lock and block session I will invariably be more effective (e.g. better timing, better hit placement, more hits, fewer instances of getting hit, etc...) than *any* of the other sparring sessions. Dave ------------------------------ From: Dave Sheehy Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 13:33:49 PST Subject: re: eskrima: Re: Planting The Rice Chad wrote: > My question is, Is this a move that does not happen with > taller people. Jimmy Tacosa is pretty tall and he does this a lot on his video tapes. Dave ------------------------------ From: James D Stacy Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 14:01:07 -0800 Subject: [none] >> From: "Tim Kashino" Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 08:53:37 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Seeking info on San Diego Hi everybody, It looks as though I will be relocating to San Diego in a few months. Can anyone tell me about the FMA scene and the Filipino community in the area? Thanks in advance. Tim Kashino >> Tim, My name is James Stacy and I teach in Vista Ca.(north San Diego County) My school Academy of World Martial Arts is located at: (760) 758-8500 1850 Hacienda Dr #11 Vista, Ca. 92083 My Email is sifu@junfanjeetkunedo.com Web Page junfanjeetkunedo.com I have trained in various martial arts starting back in 1988. I have certifacates from Moon Moo Do(korean system). Terry Gibson in Jun Fan Jeet Kune Do, Kali, Silat, Thai Boxing, groung fighting. Dan Inosanto in Jun Fan, Filipino martail arts. Ajan Chai in Thai Boxing. Col. Nattapong in Krabi Krabong. Marc Denny as Personel Trainer in Dog Brothers Martial Art. I hope that we can have a chance to meet and train. On another note: Col. Nattapong will be conducting a class in Krabi Krabong on Dec. 16th, 2000 from 10:00 a.m. till 4:00 p.m. at the above address. Class will cover Double sword and empty hands. please call for information: (760) 758-8500 ------------------------------ From: Powrscrol@aol.com Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 17:09:46 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Empty Hands Can Do Just wanted to let you know that my "Empty Hands Can Do" webpage is up & (finally) problem-free. Check it out at: http://www.powrscrol.com/ Thanks, Steve W. ------------------------------ From: Badger Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 17:44:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #560 Very interesting last couple of issues of the I-E digest. Many thanks to all the folks bringing up interesting topics. A couple observations. Before I begin, I just want to say that the current vogue in the pairing of FMA and BJJ is really a wonderful, if not the best synthesis in Martial Arts I've ever seen. You could even say that the parent art of FMA includes some good grappling, and BJJ just makes that more scientific and more understandable to many what is already within the Art. When I watch heavily padded FMA fight, I see really wrong moves being used and bad habits being formed. The head is left open, the hand is hit way too often and the strikes seem 'flippy-dippy' with the big gloves on. One sparring in particular, the smaller attacker moved in with classic, but ineffective roundhouse kick and failed to take his best opportunity. That was to get around to the side and then get behind the bigger opponent. But with all the gear this opportunity was just completely missed, and the little guy got taken down and mounted. It's important that FMA take into account what's their best strategy and not try to carry over from tournament Karate, or try to box a larger opponent. It's also important to realize where the REAL vital spots are when using sticks. Some of them are very simple and maybe under-utilized. A strong determined opponent can take strikes to the arms, head and shoulders, and as long as the jaw, neck and below the ear are 'scrunched down', they can still crash you and get inside your range. If the opponent knows the charging roof block, they can crash even better and since they have an actual 'goal' in mind (capture the head, control the head/neck), one is at a big disadvantage doing the back pedal. The DBMA tapes show the need to angle and to use the free hand to stiff arm a charge and push away, rather than straight backpedal. This is not easy to do, and not actually 'instinctive' unless you practice it, IMO. If you've seen the first DB tape on Power, you realize that the ability to do a power strike in a narrow V config is SO important, that I'm emphasizing it with all my workouts, and with my workout partners. If you don't have this, many of one's 'best' technical moves are almost ineffective. They are simply smothered, or blasted. When the army charges, it's nice to have a bunch of snipers to pick off key troops, but unless you can drop some big artillery, then the opponent won't respect your range. Just my 2 cents, and trying to continue good discussion. - -Badger 265/207/180 5'9", since 10/99 ------------------------------ From: Badger Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 17:52:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: eskrima: Ranging and closing Two other important things, in my estimation in effective stick sparring/fighting. The ability to do a sustained fast close with specific intent, on the angle, and the ability to do the jump in squat lowline attack, and leap back, or if an opening, a jump in "close". Eric (Top Dog) Knaus talks about this in detail, and I'm convinced that these are extremely important base skills to have. To set these up, he uses the angled footwork and snakey stick. Wonderful pairing of the two concepts of ranging: Unpredictability of angle of entry of attack (a subtle angling off the center line is all that's needed. A big angling is not as easy to get, and is really not needed.), paired with the suddenness of a high or low line attack, or crash. The opponent is deceived on range, speed, suddenness, and intent. This will get you lots of respect. But you must practice to be sure your head is not wide open, and that when you 'crash' you have a distinct objective and not just a 'grapple' of some kind. (i.e punyo, fang, headlock, get-behind). I think the quick close, and fast reflexes of the classic fencer (Italian school) is worthy of investigation. I'd like to see how such a player would do in a DB style match, using, of course, not a rapier, but the basic straight thrust, using deceives off the parry and ripostes and renewals, with your basic rattan stick. One might make a rule like in the 'game' with the whip, that if he gets a good strong thrust or stop hit, then the opponent would stop and give him a 'kill'. The neat thing would be to see how FMA would 'adapt' to that. I'd also be intrigued if a FMA acquired some of this fast, angled, but linear closing that fencers have, for instance someone with a college fencing background who then learned FMA. What's neat about the FMA, is that it's a complete and adaptive art. It can deal with the variations of grappling, stick-grappling, and straight and circular attacks in all ranges. But you have to practice these specifics and you must have core power. That makes all the subtle technical things like disarms and tieups work much better if you happen to really out-class your opponent. With so many people practicing the martial arts, and with such disparity in size and weight you may face, I don't think we can count on the theoretic and structural superiority of the FMA as was possible in the 'old days' (60s and 70s). We can no longer rely on 'surprise' of an unfamiliar 'way'. Although I'm focussing on some things the DBMA brings to the fore, I don't mean to underestimate or slight the other important technical aspects of FMA. In fact a good basis in some of these things makes all the rest even more effective. Just more 2 cents, and maybe a thoughtful commentary. - -Badger Arnis Lastra, Arnis Lanada ------------------------------ From: Robbie Trinidad Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 07:28:34 +0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Striking the Ground Hello, > From: "Walter Vorhauer" > Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 17:49:06 -0800 > Subject: eskrima: Striking the ground?? > > Greetings, > > Does anyone have an insight on certian striking patterns of Serrada > eskrima? --- 8< snip >8 --- > I've also noticed this in video > footage of Jose Mena of the Doblete Rapillion system as well. Are you referring to the Lionheart video which also features GM Ilustrisimo? > Is there > a significance to this particular movement where one hits the ground > with ones stick? Is there a key element in this "striking the ground" > movement? Is it personal flavor of the individual, or does it have a > purpose within the striking patterns of eskrima? Aside from those already mentioned by other posters, here are two more reasons. 1. Exercise / Emphasis - Striking the ground helps to teach a beginner certain body mechanics like ducking and weaving. Beginners also tend to rely only on arm strength or momentum / stick mass to generate power. Striking the ground helps them to learn how to generate power using the whole body. 2. Beach Combat - Hitting the ground means flicking sand at the opponent's face during the upstroke. This is called 'saboy' in some systems. Regards - -- [=======================================================================] [ Roberto B. Trinidad | E-mail: deadlock@mozcom.com ] [ CEO - World Domination NetCorp. | http://www2.mozcom.com/~deadlock/ _ ] [ Freelance 3D Graphics Animator | Quezon City, Philippines _ // ] [ and Desktop Videographer | Member: Team AMIGA \X/ ] [-----------------------------------------------------------------------] [ "The minute you're through changing, you're through." ] [ -- Jack Tramiel, founder of Commodore Int., 1983 ] [=======================================================================] ------------------------------ From: Chad Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 15:36:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Re: Plantint the rice >>I was taught this and always practiced it, but I stopped doing it, Actually we still do it. But it looks more like someone flying towards your foot to whack the toe. ===== Chad chad@fullcontacthi.com Full Contact Stickfighting Hawaii http://www.fullcontacthi.com http://www.egroups.com/group/stickfighting __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 17:07:59 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #561 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.