From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #563 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sat, 2 Dec 2000 Vol 07 : Num 563 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Elbow blocks eskrima: How to get attacked in the UK (humour invoved) eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #562 eskrima: Re: Striking the Ground eskrima: Training in the Philippines Re:eskrima: Elbow Counter-attack eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1200 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource An open FMA discussion forum provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay, Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Johnaleen" Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 10:44:46 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Re: Elbow blocks ********* "Is this a standard technique in FMA ? Couldn't this damage the elbow if you were to actually take a relatively hard punch. I'd love to hear what people think of this kind of counter-attack. Brian" ******** Brian if you don't put the elbow there what is going to get damaged instead? and if someone is punching your elbow bone hard there going to break there Knuckles...... not your elbow bone....... you might be a little sore and bruised after it but your face wont be bloody..... the other reason its used is once you have that elbow up there and lets say you have blocked the punch with it the opponent drops his hand from the pain and with your elbow still up.... you move in at that point, you have a lot of options...... me? well i would push in and use the other hand to push and keep the other dudes face to the side and pull down with kicks from the back knee to the groin...... my elbow is still there doing damage at the same time as well...... yeah the same one you just used to block that punch you were worried about getting your elbow hurt on....... " J Grins Evilly at you" Ms. J. Castro "Sweat your prayers, dance your pain, and move on." Or Move in......... :)........... F.A.T.E. Facilitating Awareness Through Empowerment 1-888-526-4626 F.A.T.E@f-a-t-e.org www.f-a-t-e.org ------------------------------ From: Patrick Davies Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 15:57:24 -0000 Subject: eskrima: How to get attacked in the UK (humour invoved) Mike Koblic: >Where are you statistically most likely to get attacked in England (sorry, in your case, Scotland)? >Used to be pubs, clubs, football grounds and Glasgow :-) Football grounds are pretty safe nowadays with the CCTV and they tend to fight away from the ground amongst their own kind, distinguishable by smart clothing styles (mainly Italian - try Stone Island's web site). Actually wearing the teams colours can indicate your non involvement in violence but I don't like the xmas tree effect. Pubs & clubs still serve with glass but future legislation is pushing to plastic. Doorstaff are coming under registration which means that picking fights with them is no longer the challenge it once was and again CCTV is changing things. Glasgow is still glasgow. They believe their own press and no one can understand them. One half sings for the Queen and the other for the Republic. They don't bother with CCTV since it will only get stolen and sold as a home cinema system! ; ) In general, for a fight you can hang around any taxi queue after pubs are out and always find someone to oblige. Or stand with a wad of cash at a hole in the wall. Of course in London you have the tubes, so late on a Saturday night there's often a row going on. >P.S. Can you be charged with possession of Doc Martens or a very short haircut? I don't but you would be appalled by the quality of the docs now. Very poor. The first pair of Docs are always remembered as I strolled down to the football feeling like Neil Armstrong on the moon with each step(air cushioned soles). Poor imitations nowadays indeed. The original bovver boys boot that went well with the rolled up jean to exemplify the number of eyelets. You bought them to be part of an army of shaven haired youths . We used to get lined up and a copper (policeman) would walk along and stand on our toes to check for steel toe caps. For a while they used to take the laces out of our boots! Prefer Lacoste nowadays - stylish, functional and great to run in! Evidence of haircut is here: (http://www.cix.co.uk/~11kbw/chelsea/ ) Pat Davies Aberdeen Martial Arts Group ------------------------------ From: "Richard Killick" Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 15:44:16 -0000 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #562 > Where are you statistically most likely to get attacked in England (sorry, > in your case, Scotland)? ******* 87% of statistics are made up on the spot! A very interesting post below, I wonder if people start to train this in-doors, on concrete etc, if it will cause damage to the elbow/shoulder joints long term. Any one suffered with this from hitting hard ground? Other wise very interesting technique. Regards Richard Killick > From: EGJundis@aol.com > Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 04:18:07 EST > Subject: eskrima: Hitting the ground: Context and Use. > > Note: read with a grain of something kosher and an ear for what you can use. > If you don't have the inclination to do that why read it. Enjoy. > > There are two frameworks to view hitting the ground through: a fighting > matrix and a training matrix. A fighting matrix should produce a successful > fighter. A training matrix should produce a competent practitioner. > > For training in Serrada, the first move most folks learn to hit the ground in > is a technique called 3-point pass. It is a passing counter used when > attacked at waist level on the live hand or daga side. The movement uses a > replacement step with female footwork. It is a fast and fluid movement that > requires complete coordination of hand and footwork to be effective in real > use. > > Hitting the ground provides an audio cue for the development of hand and > footwork coordination. It is best seen rather than explained. Audio cues for > defense, counters, and coordination are found through out the Serrada > curriculum. In the case of 3-point pass the audio cue is generated by hitting > the ground. Audio cues are also tactile cues. Angel was known to say that as > soon as his opponent heard the clicking sound of their weapons meeting, they > were hit. For those who don't know audio cues cause the quickest reactions in > human beings. That is why fighter planes have audio as well as visual warning > systems. In combat every nuance counts. > > Serrada also teaches deflection techniques that end with the stick hitting > the ground. These are mostly for low line attacks. In the Serrada teaching > progression at the advance level, there are variations of techniques that are > used against high line attacks that are redirected to a low line sometimes > ending with a hit to the ground. One technique is similar to the Kali > Ilustrisimo Suplit (slap). This summer I was shown some nice variations of > this from Guro John Chow of KI and have since compared them to techniques I > have learned from Master Darren Tibon of Eskrima Serrada. > > In the fighting matrix, hitting the ground takes on a different context. GM > Jose Mena was also known as Jumping Jack Mena. A favorite fighting style of > his is to hit the ground diverting his opponent and then jump into the air > and strike down. It was particularly scary to be on the follow up of his > dobletes. Mena's dobletes are similar to Pekiti Tirsia's number one strikes > from the closed position. Keep that in mind and imagine a man in his > seventies who has done the same movement since he was a child and has used it > on more than one occasion for self defense and non-armored full contact > matches. The man can generate some power while doing this. Other variations > were to hit the ground and immediately follow up with a low line or upward > strike (an upward sunkite or aldibest). He said he would also use it to toss > sand especially at longer ranges. > > GM Angel Cabales also used hitting the ground as part of various fighting > strategies. While in the outside circle range (i.e., being out of stick > range) he would alternate hitting the ground on the outside or inside of his > body while also alternating his lead. By staying low and keeping his upper > body open he would draw his opponents into attacking. His follow up counters > were numerous. > > There was a time in the 90's in the Northern California Eskrima tournament > scene when all of the trophies for sparing were won by members of the Angels' > Disciples organization out of Stockton, CA. Attacking by drawing and > deception by hitting the ground was used time and again by these second > generation students of GM Cabales to successfully out maneuver and set up > their opponents. Datu Frank Little the protege of Master Darren Tibon was > undefeated in over 70 matches and fought some of the best from Bahala Na, > Doce Pares, and the other N. Cal competing organizations. Tournaments is not > street fighting: it's a different game. Hitting the ground was still valid > and effective. > > There is also a historical context for challenges matches where hitting the > ground signifies a fight to the death. I heard this from GM Antonio > Ilustrissimo, GM Jose Mena, as well as from various first generation students > of GM Angel Cabales. > > Thank goodness for the ED. Where else could I share this stuff. I have a > question for the Pekiti Tirsia, Dog Brother, and Villabrille-Largusa folks. > Do you use hitting the ground in any of your teaching or fighting matrixes? > Also has anyone else heard about the historical context of hitting the ground > in death matches? > > Elrik Jundis > Director/ Lead Instructor > School of Pilipino Martial Arts ------------------------------ From: "Jonathan Broster" Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 16:38:51 -0000 Subject: eskrima: Re: Striking the Ground Hi A few years ago I asked (Doce Pares Master) Danny Guba why he would hit the floor when he was practising. He replied that he could either tell me or show me; I asked him to show me, and he promptly belted me on the foot. "Now you know, and you won't forget!" he commented. Mabuhay Jon http://www.geocities.com/jonbroster _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "Jonathan Broster" Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 16:45:32 -0000 Subject: eskrima: Training in the Philippines Hi A few days ago I posted asking for any recommendations for training in Manila. There has been a total of NO replies since then, either to ED or direct to me. Is there noone on ED who can recomend someone to train with in the capital city of the country from which our art hails? Or have all FMA truly moved to Stockton Ca.? I do know of a few people, but they are all based in Cebu, and I am going over to visit a friend who lives in Manila (and has no interest in martial arts of any kind), so travelling around will not be an option. Can anyone help? Jon http://www.geocities.com/jonbroster _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Terry Tippie Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 11:04:48 -0800 Subject: Re:eskrima: Elbow Counter-attack Brian, Disclaimer first. You probably won't get a consensus from different FMA people on this. This is just my perspective. I don't tend to think of this move as an elbow block. Rather, I think of this as guarding with distance (and possible angulation) and attacking the incoming limb from that distance if it becomes available. This is the kind of thing that you train, and if you pull it off it is incidental if not accidental. The empty handed elbow technique is related to a technique in which the knife is in the ice pick grip and you are slicing the hand as it comes in. The basic principle is 'where the knife can go in the ice pick grip the elbow can follow'. Does it do damage? This can really hurt when you hit the guy's clenched fist, especially when he's putting his own power behind it. You have to experience this to appreciate it. Having said that, it is usually used as a minor hit in a combination that closes distance to more major hits. Personally, this kind of minor hit is something that I rarely use with empty hands because I find I can usually find a hit to do more damage with bigger guns. But with a knife in your hand, 'rim shots' like this are a good move to 'defang the snake'. Terry Tippie >From: "Brian Crowley" >Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 20:30:38 -0500 >Subject: eskrima: Elbow Counter-attack > >I've taken several martial arts over the last 15 years. I recently began a >FMA class. I was a little surprised by a drill that we did in which the >defender moved out of the way of the punch & placed his elbow where the >original target was - causing the attacker to punch the defender's elbow (no >contact in class of course). > >Is this a standard technique in FMA ? Couldn't this damage the elbow if you >were to actually take a relatively hard punch. I'd love to hear what people think of this kind of counter-attack. > >Brian > ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 21:54:24 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #563 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.