From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #564 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sat, 2 Dec 2000 Vol 07 : Num 564 In this issue: eskrima: hitting the ground eskrima: Elbowing the hands eskrima: Re: Elbow to fist defence eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #562 eskrima: ground shots eskrima: Length and/or Girth Re: eskrima: Length and/or Girth eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1200 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource An open FMA discussion forum provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay, Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tom Meadows" Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 10:06:17 -0800 Subject: eskrima: hitting the ground Greetings, Two years ago I queried Grandmaster Cacoy Canete on the benefit of hitting the ground. He looked at me in amazement and said "But you will get hit on the head when you do it!". I didn't necessarily agree, having gotten away with it for years in light sparring, but I always figure he has more experience than I do.....so I gave it some thought. Several months later, I was reviewing Dog Bros. tape #2 where I have a brief cameo fighting Professor Denny. I remember the fight well because he hit me on the head so hard that I stopped fighting and went over and had to sit on the floor for a while. Imagine my embarassment upon reviewing this when I saw that the last thing I did before I got hit was tap the floor with my stick! As we say in Doce Pares "Cacoy knows Best". There may be times where it has a technical application, but I now know at least one time when it didn't work. Tom Meadows ------------------------------ From: "Tom Meadows" Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 09:57:43 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Elbowing the hands Greetings, Last issue Brian Crowley asked "I was a little surprised by a drill that we did in which the defender moved out of the way of the punch & placed his elbow where the original target was - causing the attacker to punch the defender's elbow (no contact in class of course).Is this a standard technique in FMA ? Couldn't this damage the elbow if you were to actually take a relatively hard punch." I have always considered this to be a standard technique in Kali (If I may be so bold as to use the term). I suspect this would be subgrouped under Panantukan as well. I learned it from Guro Inosanto in 1987. The technique has two levels: Simply putting the elbow in the path of the attackers punch, and a direct attack with the elbow to the punch. You can also use your free hand to direct the punch into your elbow, technically a parry/stop hit combo, but also can fit into the Gunting family of attacks. This also is probably is found in Muay Thai, I'll defer to my elders on that style. I believe that due to basics ohysiology the hand would always lose to the elbow in terms of damage. I have used this technque with great success against many styles, particularly western boxers. My favorite variant of this is to punch their hands, with intent, ignoring all other targets. They have no idea what you are doing until you land a good one.It makes it very hard for them to counter,or punch for that matter. Tom Meadows ------------------------------ From: "Bill Lowery" Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 18:15:22 -0000 Subject: eskrima: Re: Elbow to fist defence Hi Brian, One large lump of bone connecting with twenty-eight small bones closed around each other. No contest really. The only damage the elbow will experience is bruising, and given the choice, ie fist in the face/bruised elbow, I'll take the second one. There are two well known variations to the elbow defence against a fist. If the fist is thrown Karate style (palm down) a rising elbow is utilised, ie the elbow is thrown upwards (also know as a salutation). If the fist is thrown Wing Chun style (palm facing across the body) the elbow is thrown across the body (think of the way the villain in Victorian drama's would throw his cloak around himself). The elbow ends up pointing straight forwards, again sandwiching the fist between the defenders elbow and checking (or alive) hand. Either way, its a very effective defence technique, which is very painful even in class. Get your partner to put on bag mitts, then boxing gloves, then street hockey gloves, anf see which they prefer to work in. Bill Lowery ------------------------------ From: "Mike Casto" Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 15:07:46 -0500 Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #562 << From: "Brian Crowley" Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 20:30:38 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Elbow Counter-attack I've taken several martial arts over the last 15 years. I recently began a FMA class. I was a little surprised by a drill that we did in which the defender moved out of the way of the punch & placed his elbow where the original target was - causing the attacker to punch the defender's elbow (no contact in class of course). Is this a standard technique in FMA ? Couldn't this damage the elbow if you were to actually take a relatively hard punch. I'd love to hear what people think of this kind of counter-attack. Brian >> Hi Brian. This is a limb destruction and, in my relatively limited experience, they are common to most FMA. However, your description isn't quite how I would describe it. The fist is a pretty small target if you're trying to hit it with your elbow. If, however, you parry his fist (most people have little problem accomplishing this) and "guide" it into your elbow ... that's much easier. Boy, this medium is horrible for this type of discussion :-) Hopefully that description made some sense :-) Anyway ... as to injuring your elbow ... not very likely. The worst you're likely to get is a funny bone response ... and that'd be pretty unlikely. What will get injured (most likely), though is his hand. One caveat: your elbow shouldn't connect with the "point" ... it should connect with the flat area adjacent (toward your hand) to the "point." In class, we pair up and one of us puts on street hockey gloves then starts firing punches at the other. The other performs these destructions using the elbow from various angles (vertical, horizontal, diagonal down, diagonal up). The person punching can feel the impact pretty well through the glove ... but is pretty safe from injury. The guy doing the destructions feels virtually nothing on his elbow :-) Regards, Mike ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 23:23:05 -0800 Subject: eskrima: ground shots A Howl etc: It was asked if in the Dog Brothers there is striking the ground. Due to the influence of Top Dog yes there is. In that he is 6'4", the claim that it is not a technique for big men is shown to be less than absolute. The technique is incorporated into DBMA material, and has been used successfully by more than one DBMA trained fighter. HTH, Crafty Dog ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 23:39:38 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Length and/or Girth A Howl of Greeting to All: Kev wrote: Size of the DB sticks? > > On the DB Gathering tape, it appeared that many of the combatants were > fighting with large diameter sticks. Can someone (Crafty?) tell me what the > average diameter of the sticks that the fighters use? > > Thanks, > ~Kev Very observant of you Kev. I think it usually is 1" to 1 1/4", Pappy Dog of Kombat Instruments Ltd (see our website's links page) who supplies most of the sticks for the Hermosa clan would know for sure. At any rate, yes you are right-- the sticks that we use are bigger than the demo sized and demo weighted sticks preferred by many in America. This is NOT a comment against those who prefer small sticks (indeed a nice small hardwood stick can be just the thing for the street sometimes), just an observation that the light demo weight sticks so popular in many American FMA schools will not stop the men who fight at a Gathering. Yes I agree that the fencing gear takes away the effectiveness of face shots, but FWIW I cannot think of a single DB who prefers a small light rattan stick of the sort that is so popular for many in America for use at Gatherings or street. Woof, Crafty ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 7:55:56 PST Subject: Re: eskrima: Length and/or Girth > the effectiveness of face shots, but FWIW I cannot think of a single DB who > prefers a small light rattan stick of the sort that is so popular for many > in America for use at Gatherings or street. ... given the gloves that many (most?) wear during the encounters, isn't a thicker stick also needed for better feel of the stick through the glove? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 8:00:05 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #564 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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