From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #566 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Mon, 4 Dec 2000 Vol 07 : Num 566 In this issue: eskrima: GM Cacoy Canete's 2001 seminars eskrima: Dis and Dat Re: eskrima: Length and/or Girth eskrima: tapping or hitting the ground (Villabrille Kali) eskrima: Re: Elbowing the hands eskrima: Ring of Fire Camp UPDATE eskrima: Re: Length and/or Girth eskrima: Striking the ground input!!! Re: eskrima: Re: Length and/or Girth eskrima: Ho from CO eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1200 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource An open FMA discussion forum provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay, Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 7:56:14 PST Subject: eskrima: GM Cacoy Canete's 2001 seminars Forwarding. Ray - ------------------------------------------------------------------- Subject: GM Cacoy Canete's 2001 seminars Hi all, For those that wanted to finalize or host GM Cacoy for a seminar, here are the dates left that some of you need to give me a confirmation because they are now up for grabs awaiting for some of you to reserve. I'm only going to hold these dates open till mid-January. After that I publish them on the website with the hosting schools and their instructors for those students, instructors and schools that want to attend their seminars. In January, you will all be informed of the upcoming open invitational of GM's 1st World Doce Pares Federation championship tournament, the rules and requirements. For those that have been waiting for these information, thank you for being patient. And also those waiting for the equipment gears, I will have them available by the end of December. Meanwhile, it is a season with a reason...good tidings of joy, peace and goodwill to all of you. Wishing you all a merry Christmas and a blessed prosperous new beginnings in 2001. Thank you for friendship, acquaintences and comradry. Train well, balance your mind, body, soul and spirit. May Our Jesus Christ pour out His grace, mercy and blessings upon all of you and your love ones. Rev. Rupert GM Cacoy's Open dates awaiting confirmation: March: 10th April: 7, 21, 28 May: 19 & 26th July: 7th & 29th E-mail me or call at: Day/m-f my work office: 408-938-2814. Evenings/m-f Church office: 408-719-8649. Weekends: Home-408-946-2825 or at jebrup@worldnet.att.net ------------------------------ From: Chad Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 14:50:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Dis and Dat Re: Elbow the Hand Tom posted a nice one on this. Randy Couture also uses a variation of this in his UFC fights in a structure that I've tried working with and had good results. It is also a large part of the panantukan area of Full Contact Hawaii. Try making your forearms and elbow the target for your opponent to hit rather than your face. You stay on the long range and everytime his punches come in, let him hit your elbow. Better yet is to try and punch someone doing this to you. A couple of bruises and hits to his elbow should have you a firm believer. I have never hurt my elbow on a fist, bruise or otherwise. Re: Hitting the Ground/Planting the Rice Nice post by Tom again. Crafty also says: >>In that he is 6'4", the claim that it is not a technique for big men >>is shown to be less than absolute. One example of it working, and one of it not working. Goes to show that the techniques have to work within the frame of timing and placement. Re: Fighting stick size I agree and personally like a little larger and heavier stick than the man stading across from me. We do have one fighter though that uses a little serrada stick when fighting. His stick is unusually heavy though, but it is much shorter that what we use. He is, on the other hand 6'2" with a much longer reach than us. Most of our fighting with him revolved around our use of 28" sticks though, and of the few fights with us when we were using the 31" sticks, it is quite obvious he feels the pressure of the length and range control. He should be back out with us regularly within the next week or so, and we'll see how he develops and works around our length. But with a short stick, I would still place this guy up to fight and put myself behind his ability and fighting spirit. ===== Chad chad@fullcontacthi.com Full Contact Stickfighting Hawaii http://www.fullcontacthi.com http://www.egroups.com/group/stickfighting __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Steve Klement Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 01:53:53 -0500 Subject: Re: eskrima: Length and/or Girth Gloves? Who needs gloves? Just playing, I know most of the people training this way need to wear at least minimum protection or else they wouldn't be able to perform at office the next day. - -- Steve Klement Masirib Guro (865) 988-7599 Inayan School of Eskrima - TN. inayan@mindspring.com http://www.inayaneskrima.com > From: Ray Terry > Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 7:55:56 PST > Subject: Re: eskrima: Length and/or Girth > >> the effectiveness of face shots, but FWIW I cannot think of a single DB who >> prefers a small light rattan stick of the sort that is so popular for many >> in America for use at Gatherings or street. > > ... given the gloves that many (most?) wear during the encounters, isn't > a thicker stick also needed for better feel of the stick through the glove? > > Ray Terry > raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Mark Harrell" Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 21:32:21 -0000 Subject: eskrima: tapping or hitting the ground (Villabrille Kali) >From: Elrik Jundis >Director/ Lead Instructor >School of Pilipino Martial Arts: >I have a question for the Pekiti Tirsia, Dog Brother, and > >Villabrille-Largusa folks. Do you use hitting the ground in any of your >teaching or fighting matrixes? Yes, the Villabrille-Largusa Kali system uses ground tapping or hitting in its training and fighting methods. In fact, the similarities between Serrada and the Villabrille systems are many. Unfortunately, the Villabrille-Largusa people pretty much stay to themselves. The Kali Association of America does not show the public the combative expressions of their art. They prefer to keep that side of their Kali to themselves. The KAA likes to stress the traditions, culture, Sayaws, and basics or fundamentals of motion and rhythm to the general public. Guro Mark Harrell _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Terry Tippie Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 09:11:13 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Elbowing the hands I concur with the comments from Mike, Tom and Bill on this thread. I'd like to comment on one or two of Tom's points below. My advice to Brian Crowley is: the southeast Asian arts are the 'elbow specialists' of the martial arts world. Filipino, Malaysian, Indonesian and Burmese arts all have some great elbow stuff. It's great stuff and lots of fun. Learn all you can. >From: "Tom Meadows" >Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 09:57:43 -0800 >Subject: eskrima: Elbowing the hands > >This also is probably is found in Muay Thai, I'll defer to my elders on >that style. > Here's the conventional wisdom from a Muay Thai perspective: I've never seen this used in the ring in Muay Thai. The protective padding provided by boxing gloves lessens the effectiveness of this technique. In addition, my experience is that a lot of Thai fighters have such a hard core mentality that they would keep punching, even through a broken finger or knuckle. A trainer would probably stop the fight and wrap up your hand. IF you're a falang (foreigner). But if you're Thai they'd just tell you to suck it up and keep punching--or just knee and elbow instead. There is also an exception to most rules. For example: Songserm Sudangnoi: former Rajdamnern middleweight champion, now in his early 60s. He lives with his wife north of Bangkok. This is a guy who has some wild extensions to Muay Thai that would have a FMA guy saying, "Hey, he's defanging the snake" (attacking the incoming limb), or a JKD guy saying, "Hey, he's cutting into the tool and finger jabbing." Call it what you want, but it's all him and its for real. It is the exceptions in which I have a particular interest. When you get into the "master tricks" of senior Muay Thai guys you'll find a lot of wild stuff. But I haven't yet seen and elbow gunting to the hand from anyone. Wouldn't it be nice if one of you guys went to Thailand with the intention of writing an English language expose on "The dirty tricks of Muay Thai" or "the deadly art of Pattani Silat" or "the fighting arts of the Thai Northern Hill Tribes"? I can't do it because of my family and work committments, but somebody should do that. There's a lot to the Thai arts when you get into them. >I believe that due to basics ohysiology the hand would always lose to the >elbow in terms of damage. > Tom is well respected in the FMA community for his knowledge of "ohysiology". :-D >I have used this technque with great success against many styles, >particularly western boxers. My favorite variant of this is to punch their >hands, with intent, ignoring all other targets. This works if you're footwork is good enough to control the distance effectively on the boxer and stay just beyond range. (Boxers have good footwork.) You may be able to pull this off at first because of their unfamiliarity with the technique. But a very good boxer studies their opponent and adapts quickly. They may be able to adapt to this sooner than you might like. The question then would become: Can you adapt to their new strategy before they give you a concussion? >They have no idea what you are doing until you land a good one. It makes it very hard for them to >counter,or punch for that matter. Yep, and it will work like a charm...probably for about the first three minutes. It might be fun to let them try it and then suggest a counter strategy after the first round. Go whisper in the boxer's ear, "That boy is out of shape. Move in and body hook." Or maybe, "He's got a bum knee. Bob low, hook him in the thighs and then go up top." I betcha they could figure it out on thier own though. Of course, this back-and-forth problem solving is a lot of fun. A way to extend this game would be to go to the non-boxer before the third round and whisper to him, "He doesn't know how to defend against low-line attacks. When he moves in stop him with straight knee #2, then push & kick". But don't be too quick to put money against the boxer. They hit hard, they're (usually) in great shape, their distance & timing is impeccable and they're used to getting hit. Finally, if you play a back-and-forth game like what I described above make sure to do it at your own place. Most of the inner city gyms are full of guys who HATE karate guys (a category which they will probably lump you into), and if you're too cocky you won't make it out of there in one piece. Regards, Terry Tippie Pacifica, California USA ------------------------------ From: SilatPony@aol.com Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 01:22:02 EST Subject: eskrima: Ring of Fire Camp UPDATE !! ATTENTION !! - WEBSITE UPDATED 12/3/00 RING OF FIRE, December 16 & 17, 2000 Millennium 2000 Martial Arts Camp Camp / Workshop Training in: Indonesian Pentjak Silat Serak, Kuntao Silat, and Filipino Stick Arts **FEATURING: MaHa Guru VICTOR deTHOUARS - SILAT SERAK GUEST of HONOR: GURO DAN INOSANTO - FILIPINO STICKS & SILAT SERAK Guru Stevan Plinck - SILAT SERAK Sigung “Uncle Bill” Willem deThouars - KUNTAO SILAT Guru Robert Vanatta - SILAT SERAK Guru Andre Knustgraichen - SILAT ADEK-SERAK Guro Ken Pannell - FILIPINO STICKS & SILAT SERAK * * December 16 & 17, 2000 * * VENUE : To be held in the “Santa Fe Springs” room at the: HOLIDAY INN SELECT, 14299 Firestone Blvd., La Mirada, CA CAMP FEE of $250 per person, fee includes training with all instructors both days, 8 a.m. - 4 p.m. including a special demonstration, and a Special Banquet dinner SATURDAY from 6:00 - 10:00 p.m. One day camp fee is $125.00 for either day No spectators will be allowed to watch the workshop SORRY, NO CAMERAS OR VIDEOS WILL BE ALLOWED DURING THE WORKSHOP UNTIL THE CLOSE OF SESSIONS EACH DAY, NO EXCEPTIONS!! Please see the website for all updated information including a sign-up form, a map page, and a full (tentative) schedule of events. FOR INFORMATION GO TO: VDT Academy of Asian Martial Arts: http://members.aol.com/silatpony/vdt_academy_home.html ------------------------------ From: rudolf@kimbel.net Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 00:29:34 +0100 Subject: eskrima: Re: Length and/or Girth >> the effectiveness of face shots, but FWIW I cannot think of a single DB who >> prefers a small light rattan stick of the sort that is so popular for many >> in America for use at Gatherings or street. > Ray Terry: >... given the gloves that many (most?) wear during the encounters, isn't >a thicker stick also needed for better feel of the stick through the glove? All the feel you need is that the stick does not fall out of your hand when delivering. A thick stick is a heavy stick. If your stick is too heavy for you, it will move to slow. If it's too light, you loose power. You need to find the stick wich will let YOU do the hardest hitting at the needed speed. You will have to find this stick for yourself. I think that the equation "unleash the most power will still serving fast enough" is not only my opinion but also the reason for the Dog Bros choice of sticks. Rudolf. ------------------------------ From: "Walter Vorhauer" Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 11:26:27 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Striking the ground input!!! To all who responded, I just wanted to say thank you to all of those who responded to my questions(publicly and privately) concerning hitting the ground with one's stick. The answers that were given were all valid and sound (or at least in my opionon anyway!) To the gentlemen in the digest who asked me if I was refering to a video with Jose Mena hitting the ground with his stick, the answer is yes, I do have the Lionheart videos. For those of you who don't know what I'm refering to, a company by the name of Lionheart Products has a has a 3-video set of some of the best demonstrations of philipino masters that I have ever seen. Included are demonstrations by Tatang Illustrisimo, Jose Mena, Jersen "Nene" Tortal, just to name a few. If you have the oppurtunity to get a hold of these videos, they are definetly worth the money and are a great additive to ones library of philipino videos. thank you Walter V. __________________________________________________ FREE voicemail, email, and fax...all in one place. Sign Up Now! http://www.onebox.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 16:57:41 PST Subject: Re: eskrima: Re: Length and/or Girth > All the feel you need is that the stick does not fall out of your hand > when delivering. Thanks. Exactly my point. A heavy glove makes that difficult with a thinner stick. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 16:59:36 PST Subject: eskrima: Ho from CO Hello from Colorado... I -think- the email problems that occurred from my system move have now cleared up. But then I thought that a couple of days ago... ??? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 17:07:04 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #566 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.