From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #567 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Tues, 5 Dec 2000 Vol 07 : Num 567 In this issue: eskrima: Thick or thin/Check your opponent's stick [none] eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #560 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #559 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #558 eskrima: Subject: Re: Elbow Counter-attack eskrima: Punching hands eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #563 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #566 eskrima: indian martial arts eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #560/ stix īn swords in india and africa eskrima: Pekiti stick and knife seminar 12/9 eskrima: Black Belt Magazine article eskrima: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #566 eskrima: Re: shorter stick and gloves eskrima: AW: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #562 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #566 eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1200 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource An open FMA discussion forum provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay, Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AWSolis@aol.com Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 13:50:31 EST Subject: eskrima: Thick or thin/Check your opponent's stick In a message dated 12/2/00 9:37:15 AM Central Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: > > ... given the gloves that many (most?) wear during the encounters, isn't > a thicker stick also needed for better feel of the stick through the glove? > > Ray Terry > raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Woof! I can feel the stick, whether thick or thin, through the gloves just fine. I use both types...the heavier/thicker when going with the Dogs...thin/lighter when going with puppies. I use a thick stick due to the fact that they tend to be heavier, and I utilize it better as a defensive weapon that I can have faith in. At a Dog Brother seminar in 1994, I was sparring a gentleman who complained that the stick I was using was too big for a seminar setting. I said okay whatever, and then he gave me one of his sticks to use (a thin light one), he also wore a WEKAF style headgear, I wore a fencing mask...we walked out on the grass, did the traditional Dog Bro. FH, BH, and then started. He threw a FH diaganol shot, which I blocked with a nice roof block. Imagine my surprise when I felt his stick connect on my trap. He then continued attacking me, I kept defending and countering but his strikes kept connecting. I regrouped and got out of range...it was then I noticed that he was using my stick...the same stick he complained about me using. I did not complain or say anything because I should have known better. I should have checked his stick before we started banging. Even though I was defending, the weight of the thicker stick was too much for that thin stick. The video tape ended up confirming that it was due to the stick...not lousy technique. Anyway, I ended up looking like a zebra ..It was a great learning experience. At an early Gathering that I was at, we had a fighter from San Diego show up and had slits at the tip of his stick so that when contact was made, it would cut his opponent. We found this out after Juggernaut went against him. Marc and Arlan later made him pay for this :) Just my .02, Woof! Alvis W. Solis Hound Dog! ------------------------------ From: Sam Beckett Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 14:31:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [none] I was a little surprised by a drill that we did in >>>>>which the defender moved out of the way of the punch & placed his elbow where the original target was - causing the attacker to punch the defender's elbow (no contact in class of course). Is this a standard technique in FMA ? Couldn't this damage the elbow if you were to actually take a relatively hard punch.>>>>> Using this technique fron a 'neutral' stance in receiving is extremely effective. The elbow technique is not a 'strike' per say, but a 'squared elbow', using intrinsic energy to destroy the opponents tool (fist). We have been using a parry to set the angle for this, and as I say, it is very effective. To my knowledge the smaller bones in the hand can not match the strength of the elbow. The harder the opponent strikes, the more damage that occurs to his tool. This sets up a wedge, and from that a variety of counters and leverages can be applied. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "A.J.Moran" Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 14:41:04 +0000 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #560 Hi to all, Tom Meadows is correct when he mentions round and square ammunition. The Puckle Gun, a kind of early multi-barreled canon, was issued with round shot for Christians and square shot for 'heathens'. Presumably the round shot was deemed to be less severe...? Andrew Moran Sheffield UK ------------------------------ From: "A.J.Moran" Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 14:31:42 +0000 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #559 Walter V enquired regarding the significance of striking the ground. As far as I understand, this acts a a kind of priming action for your next strike. Andrew Moran Sheffield UK ------------------------------ From: "A.J.Moran" Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 14:26:18 +0000 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #558 Hi to all, Regarding collapsible batons, the public are NOT allowed to carry these in the UK. It is permissible to own knives, batons, etc., but these should be kept at home. If you wish to carry a baton of any description in public, you run the risk of arrest for possession of an offensive weapon. The law is not interested in the fact that you carried it for defensive purposes, as citizens are basically not allowed to bear arms. Even wooden training weapons, e.g. nunchaku, bokuto, etc., should be carried in a proper case and not be readily accessible. Best wishes, Andrew Moran Sheffield UK ------------------------------ From: "C. Herrman" Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 21:16:55 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Subject: Re: Elbow Counter-attack Hello, Regarding elbow destructions: A few years ago, during a sparring match, I dropped an elbow on an incoming sidekick that was aimed at my ribs. It was a very short downward move from a standard boxing guard position which hit the top of my partner's foot with the tip of my elbow. It stopped the kick, but did not stop the match. X-rays the next day confirmed that his foot was broken. So, I agree with Mr. Tippie that the elbow destructions are best used as "...a minor hit in a combination that closes distance to more major hits." Personally, I do like them and find that they appear quite naturally v. kicks. I usually wear soft elbow pads when I spar now so that I can still use the technique and keep my partners safe. Respectfully, Chris H. ------------------------------ From: "C. Herrman" Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 21:16:56 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Punching hands Hello, Tom Meadows wrote: >I have used this technque with great success against many styles, particularly western boxers. My favorite variant of this is to punch their hands, with intent, ignoring all other targets. Do you punch their hands with your hands? How do you avoid damaging your own hand? Do you use a middle-knuckle strike or someting similar to insure that you are hitting with a harder part of your hand? Thanks, Chris H. ------------------------------ From: "steven drape" Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2000 23:45:10 +0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #563 > "Is this a standard technique in FMA ? Couldn't this damage the elbow if > you > were to actually take a relatively hard punch. This is one of those techniques that many people teach but have never actually used. In practice, it works great, if you get a rising or horizontal contact with an incoming punch or kick. Unfortunately, it can have a really nasty downside, if the angle of contact is from below. I had a couple of students sparring and one threw up his elbow to block a high roundhouse, having been taught how effective an elbow could be to a bony target. The defender caught the shin of the kicker with the underside of the elbow, where the tendon crosses the joint (funny bone area), and both men dropped like sacks of rocks- one thinking his shin had been broken and the other feeling as if his arm had been hit by lightning. The elbow is a great strike if you can control the angle of contact, but if you are off by even a little, there is no amount of conditioning that will stop some extreme pain. Steve - -- _______________________________________________ FREE Internet Email for the Martial Arts! Kung Fu Online http://www.kungfuonline.com Powered by Outblaze ------------------------------ From: NYCAinfo@aol.com Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 21:32:53 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #566 <> I have been working on a book for last seven years on the older systems of muay thai and krabi krabong. The first book should be ready by mid 2001. I have trained with some of the last remaining grandmasters primarily in the bare knuckle systems. Bare knuckle masters such as my teacher the late Paramarjarn (grandmaster) Thonglor Yalae who was an accomplished bare knuckle fighter and expert combat southern krabi krabong master taught as part of his tradition, a system of fighting or surviving if the hands were broken or disabled in a fight. An ingenious use of elbows for parrying,spearing and spiking worked in combination with footwork, kicks, parries and forearms form a very interesting sub art in itself. One of the first things learned in the south/north/central systems is cutting to draw blood primarily with special knuckle and fist punches, elbows or special forearm/elbow tears. The older bare knucke fighting systems of burma and thailand have many unique combinations that make them very applicable to street self defense and no holds barred type of competitions. Different kai muays in thailand focus on different strategies within the matrix of the current ring or sport muay thai practiced now, some camps favor elbows and knees and others on leg kicks, etc. Within the camps are some of the older fighters who intersperse their knowledge from the past with the newer ways. The older bare knuckle systems and krabi krabong systems are slowly vanishing or more than likely turned into ceremonial performance for festivals or entertainment purposes. Vincent Giordano ------------------------------ From: "simoun crisostomo" Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 03:46:49 -0000 Subject: eskrima: indian martial arts Hello everyone! Im just wondering if there are any FMA groups out there that knows and has been practicing "gatka" or "kalaripayit". these two are Indian martial arts from India that deals with swords, daggers and other weapons. From what i have read from their websites these two martial arts are supposed to be really effective and they have also claimed as the root of all the oriental martial arts and that the practitioners of gatka, the Sikh people, were made soldiers by the British Army because of their skills in warfare when India was still a part of their empire. For those who have knowledge or experience on these arts can you please discuss the similarities , differences of these arts to the FMA. I'm just curious about how FMA is similar to other "ancient martial art" that has been proven in real time and also if there are some possibility of influences or connections to FMA. Simoun _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "apo.k.lypse" Date: Sun, 03 Dec 2000 19:02:30 +0100 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #560/ stix īn swords in india and africa hi all. this post brought up some thoughts i had before. as i understood from my former roommate (who was brought up as a sikh in new delhi) the sikhs (maybe others too) were sometimes teached gatka, an indian way of sword/stickfighting (seems just to fit in the story below). then a few months ago i heard from a guy about some style or art form of stickfighting from africa (maybe some tribal-style or something) and today i saw a tv program about some tribes in ethiopia who do a kind of stickfight (no dancing, real contact. reportes told fight would start as duel between villages/tribes, ending most often with two or three major hits breaking bones or lacerations/cuts/wounds (looked that up in a dictionary. maybe someone can help me out. what is "platzwunde" in english) using a staff bo/sibat-style, but canīt remember exactly if there was a name for it. question: does anyone have some more information about these? especcially, how gatka/this african style could/can contribute to a complete stickfighter? thanx achim (baguhan from berlin) |From: T David Reyes >Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2000 08:19:35 -0800 >Subject: eskrima: Knife stories > > From todays newspaper; > >Arrest in Parade Fight- > >YUBA CITY- Two men were arrested during the annual Sikh Parade in Sutter >County after some parade watchers grabbed SWORDS and BAMBOO STICKS and began >to fight. The fight quickly dispersed when police arrived, Sheriff's Sgt, >Bruce Hutchinson said. Three men suffered minor injuries in the melee. ------------------------------ From: "BILL MCGRATH" Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 00:05:58 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Pekiti stick and knife seminar 12/9 The annual PTI charity benefit seminar is this coming Saturday (12/9) and I would like to extend a special invitation to all the members of this list who live in the NY-NJ-CT area. I will be teaching close quarters sets from the Solo Baston Abcedario as well as the knife variations at this seminar (I always like to make the charity seminars special. If you attend I promise you won't be disappointed). This year's charity is the "Make a Wish" Foundation which is dedicated to granting a special wish to terminally ill children. Place: Estelle & Alfonso's Dance Studio 2206 Route 9 Fishkill, NY. 12524 Time: 1 PM to 5 PM Cost: $40 You get driving directions to the dance studio by punching the address into Yahoo's map page at: http://maps.yahoo.com/py/ddResults.py Hope to see you there, Tuhon Bill McGrath PS. Officers from my department and other law enforcement agencies are volunteering their time at area shopping malls during the month of December and I think it would be great if they saw a good showing of support for this cause from the martial arts community (translation: I'll be bragging about how goodhearted you guys are in the FMA community to my fellow LEO's while I man a MAW table). ------------------------------ From: Andrew R Breton Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 22:45:26 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Black Belt Magazine article Did anyone catch the article "Reality of the Blade" in the latest issue of black belt magazine? The author, James LaFond, collected 1600 eye witness accounts and analyzed them in various ways. Among his conclusions: The most dangerous attacks were listed as (from least to most harmful): Throwing, slashing (impact cutting), slicing (pressure cutting), stabbing, slashing and stabbing, then stabbing and slicing. 36% of blade encounters involve grappling. 25% of blade grappling situations are defensive draws from a clinch or by a mounted floor fighter. The successful unarmed defenses were (from least effective to most effective): trap (4%), head butt (4%), gouge (4%), verbal dissuasion (4%), kick (9%), punch (13%), throw (26%), hold (35%). I would be interested in what people thought of his conclusions. Andy Breton ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ From: Sunny Graff <105605.2047@compuserve.com> Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 01:54:58 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #566 Nachricht geschrieben von INTERNET:eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com >For those of you who don't know what I'm refering to, a company by the name of Lionheart Products has a has a 3-video set of some of the best demonstrations of philipino masters that I have ever seen. Included are demonstrations by Tatang Illustrisimo, Jose Mena, Jersen "Nene" Tortal, just to name a few. If you have the oppurtunity to get a hold of these videos, they are definetly worth the money and are a great additive to ones library of philipino videos.< And if anyone knows how to get ahold of them, please let me know. They owe me money for a set of returned tapes (which they shipped twice and charged me for twice). After more than a year of promising "the check is in the mail", simply don`t respond. The e-mail adress I had appears not to be good anymore either. The tapes are interesting but their business practices are horrible. Not what I expect from a fellow martial artist....or anyone for that matter. Sunny Graff ------------------------------ From: Chad Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2000 23:53:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Re: shorter stick and gloves Re: Shorter stick: An official statement from the guy I referred to about the short stick was that he felt "uncomfortable", and Sunday afternoon, he turned around to go pick up my other stick after he placed his 24" stick side by side with my 31", and said "**** that". >>A heavy glove makes that difficult with a thinner stick. Heavy gloves can make a difference in the manner in which one fights. Less fear of the hand shot. I don't think they make a huge difference for the guys that wear lighter hockey gloves, maybe a slight one, but not that much. I got hit on the pointer yesterday and didn't realize how bad it was till a few minutes later after taking the glove off. Lots of swollen hands/fingers, but nothing broken yet(knock on wood). ===== Chad chad@fullcontacthi.com Full Contact Stickfighting Hawaii http://www.fullcontacthi.com http://www.egroups.com/group/stickfighting __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Bernd Giller" Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 12:31:29 +0100 Subject: eskrima: AW: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #562 Hi there! I would like to answer to the "hitting the ground"-topic, also. Most of the points are already said! "Thank goodness for the ED. Where else could I share this stuff. I have a question for the Pekiti Tirsia, Dog Brother, and Villabrille-Largusa folks. Do you use hitting the ground in any of your teaching or fighting matrixes? Elrik Jundis Director/ Lead Instructor School of Pilipino Martial Arts" In Pekiti Tirsia there are forms and sets which have striking techniques to the ground, too. The 3 Forms of Seguidas have a lot. Beside "picking up sand" and "hitting the foot" I could give two other ideas about the reason: - - For learing the technique hitting the group provokes bigger movements. Bigger movements are easier to learn and are teaching the muscles better. - - In case somebody grabs your weaponhand on a backhand strike from below (like umbrella/roof block) very hard, you can free your hand by striking downwards. Do not forget: There are other styles also using a longer stick - like tapado/tapada (?). They use hard downward strikes and they use the "bouncing-from-the-ground" power to recover and counter. (like a bouncing ball) Greetings from Germany Bernd Giller ptbernd@gmx.de ------------------------------ From: MdlAgdLftr@aol.com Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 06:38:04 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #566 In a message dated 12/4/00 4:45:47 PM Pacific Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << You stay on the long range and everytime his punches come in, let him hit your elbow. >> I work with a bodybuilder/powerlifter who, on top of being 250lbs of solid muscle, is an ex-bouncer, and generally one tough SOB to deal with. Working nights like we do, we naturally got around to talking about our interests, my FMA background came up, and pretty soon, mature guys that we were, we started testing each others' skills and toughness by boxing without gloves, pads, or, needless to say, common sense. I used this technique (placing the elbows in the path of the incoming fist) many times when we "played around," and he was impressed immensely with the effectiveness of this. Mind you, this was against a guy firing random punches, we were playing a lot harder than we should have been (I swore he cracked my ribs once), and this guy has an incredible pain tolerance. This would stop him dead in his tracks each and every time, and gave him a great deal of respect for the FMA's. For the record, I also was able to incapacitate him with a knee to the major peroneal (damned good thing we are friends!!) Kim Satterfield ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 7:16:40 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #567 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.