From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #569 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 6 Dec 2000 Vol 07 : Num 569 In this issue: eskrima: FMA knife eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #568 eskrima: electric knives ? eskrima: More Serrada, Dizon et al. eskrima: RE:Stick Length's/Gloves /Progressive Sparing Techniques eskrima: Re: Girth & Gloves & Ground Strikes eskrima: pictures of moro warriors from 1900's eskrima: Re: Bill McGrath and Fishkill, New York eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1200 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource An open FMA discussion forum provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay, Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kilap@aol.com Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 18:18:17 EST Subject: eskrima: FMA knife More than a few digests a go someone was requesting info on FMA knife videos, along with the noteworthy suggestions already made, and while not video, I highly recommend checking out Sayoc Kali. Tuhon Chris Sayoc has an excellent teaching method, i.e., prodding you to discover for your self why certain techniques will work or why they won't (among other things). Sayoc Kali definitely has an edge being all blade all the time (pun intended). The methodology in the system specifically targets areas that a blade will cause the most anatomical damage to. These patterns are called "vital templates." At a recent seminar hosted by Stephen Lefebvre up in New Hampshire, Tuhon Sayoc covered the left and right versions of #4 from 12 sets. These are not mirror versions, so that both right and left can be done simultaneously (or right followed by left or left followed right). One of "Transition drills" was also covered which if you've done knife tapping, will be familiar or at least the first two movements series anyway...there are seven more if I've got the version from the seminar right. Among others things covered from the transition drill doing strips, locks and counters to both. Entries to takedowns where also shown. Also (12?!) ways of beating the parries in the transition drill (yikes!). Towards the end of the day we sparred empty hand verses aluminum training blade. I ended up with five not-so-nice yellow, greenish, purple spots on the left side ... it was a good experience, for learning that is. Bob damn near decapitated me (joking) when he drew that second blade...hey no fair!.....yeah rigghhhtttt...seems I can't go anywhere without getting red marks on the neck ha! ;) There's more but go ahead and check it out for yourself, you won't be disappointed. Gumagalang, Travis ------------------------------ From: Chad Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 16:07:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #568 > From: Dexter.Labonog@wcom.Com > Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 13:26:16 -0800 > Subject: eskrima: Re: shorter stick and gloves > I agree with all of the comments made about the differences of stick, > gloves, lengths etc; but it's still a controlled match and one > should acknowledge and imagine that in reality you may have been > killed. >> Heavy gloves can make a difference in the manner in which one fights. >> Less fear of the hand shot. I don't think they make a huge >> difference >> for the guys that wear lighter hockey gloves, maybe a slight one, but >> not that much. I got hit on the pointer yesterday and didn't realize >> how bad it was till a few minutes later after taking the glove off. >> Lots of swollen hands/fingers, but nothing broken yet(knock on wood). Dexter, I agree with you. Sparring equipment has done a great thing for the modern day warriors. I'm pretty sure you came to the tournament down here in Hawaii either this year or last year. I saw alot of people training to hit and then not worry about taking the second hit. IMO, they shouldn't really score that point. But then, that isthe watering down that will happen when a tournament with rules is open. I'm sure you guys, with padded sticks or not, do not train to give and take hits. I meant more so about people who don't know the difference. One example is during knife sparring using soft stx knifes, we had this guy who always kept running in and thrusting thrusting thrusting no matter how many times he got his hand hit with the knife. When we used the aluminum daggers, he learned that his movements were a little unrealistic in the sense that aluminum now hurt, and a knife would actually cut. Now, glad to say, he can spar with the padded knife in the same manner he does with the aluminum. I would just like to see put the intent into how people react. When I decided to start fighting with a baseball glove, it was a big decision for me. I know that the only place I was getting hit was on the hand at that time, and that if I got hit on the hand with a baseball glove, broken bones-a-coming. But I decided that it was that important to me. I put the baseball gloves on, went out there, and learned right away that when you don't wear an elbow pad or a hockey glove, you kind of pull your stick back after hits alot faster. It is something that helped me alot. Now I can train with padded sticks, extra gear, etc., but I still realize that I have to act with the right intent to whatever type of weapon I am facing. ===== Chad chad@fullcontacthi.com Full Contact Stickfighting Hawaii http://www.fullcontacthi.com http://www.egroups.com/group/stickfighting __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2000 16:46:57 PST Subject: eskrima: electric knives ? Someone once mentioned that they were working on the development of an electric knife to use in knife training. Is that person still here? Any new news? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Jivita@aol.com Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 20:22:46 EST Subject: eskrima: More Serrada, Dizon et al. I've found Mark Wiley's new book Secrets of Cabales Serrada Eskrima quite interesting regarding the Cabales, Dizon, Illustrisimo and Serrada/ de Cuerdes threads of a while back. Ray, there's also a section regarding the Doce Pares Society, including a brief mention of the Baet clan among others. Contrary to what the Internet sources say, this book does not seem to simply be a rehash of the FMA Cabales Serrada Escrima Book. I'm only at the beginning but it is different thus far, very meaty. It seems to take a more historical, conceptual and mature slant. Regards. JL. ------------------------------ From: "Johnaleen" Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 01:10:57 -0500 Subject: eskrima: RE:Stick Length's/Gloves /Progressive Sparing Techniques I have been catching at the wink of an eye the conversations on glove and stick sparing Techniques over the past few days.... today is the first day i have had time toss in my 2 cents..... First off I have done this kind of sparing and its what my Private Instructor calls Progressive Sparing...... this is just one of the sparing Techniques we use but i like it and find it an effective part of my training... By what everyone has been writing here it seems what we do is some what different....... To begin with, I have tried all kinds of gloves from heavy to light.... using a hockey glove to a 16 once boxing glove....... for me i have settled with a 12 once glove because the grip and weight is good for me and my weenie famine wrists....... the heaver gloves drag my wrists down and cause me to fatigue too soon in a sparing match........ as far as stick lengths in these sparing drills with the gloves and the helmets......... myself and My Private Trainer/Sparing Partner use 3 Different Stick lengths 28 to 31 inch 20 inch apx and then 8 to 12 inch sticks representing knife lengths....... we start off with 10 min of each working from evasion to evade and attacks. strikes and then open sparing for each length within the rules of course...... i.e. the glove being the target and so on breaking them down...... working with all 3 lengths and mixing up the weights and what not off and on...... No matter what gloves I have used I have found you still get hit now and then though them.... I took a nice nerve shot to the inside of my palm the other day from the butt of the shorter knife length stick and received a nice burse and a cramping hand for the day....... so no matter what your going to get damaged at times........ its nothing as bad as if there were no gloves and no protection...... my trainer/sparing partner uses a hockey glove.... but he has taken some nasty strikes from me with it from the stick that i don't feel with the glove.... so its mostly what suites the individual....... i just had to play with it..... took me 6 months of playing with different things to get comfortable with what i use now........ as far as thickness and how much each stick normally weighs? we have moved around and used as many different kinds and combinations as we can..... why? well gives me a wider range........ as i said though this is just one of the sparing techniques we have used together........ I also caught some thoughts from others here on the weight of the stick and thickness when starting out with Kali/Eskrima...... I had no choice when i started my hands could not hold the heaver sticks or the wider ones as i was riddled with Rheumatoid arthritis..... it took me a year to be able to hold the heaver sticks i even had to get special thinner ones and lighter ones to start with..... so i guess i started out backwards there........ things have changed a lot since then... now i cant find a big enough stick..... though i did see one that i liked a lot recently...... if i can get the dog brothers to let me have the nice big blue one i saw mark using to keep combatants at bay...... might be big enough...... "Johnaleen bows deeply......" " Well Behaved Women Seldom Make History" F.A.T.E. Facilitating Awareness Through Empowerment 1-888-526-4626 F.A.T.E@f-a-t-e.org www.f-a-t-e.org ------------------------------ From: Eric Knaus Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2000 23:37:44 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Girth & Gloves & Ground Strikes It's true - as Marc stated - that DB gatherings tend to bring out bigger sticks. However, again to echo Marc, it's not the diameter of the weapon so much as it is the density in combination with its dexterity. For example, I have a stick made of snake wood that Arlan forged in Sante Fe many years ago that is only 27" long and tapers slightly at one end but I would pit that weapon against any regular "log sized" stick - in short, it's really hard and really fast. Marc has forbidden me to fight with it at the Gatherings because of the damage it would do behind a power shot. As an aside, I usually fight with a stick that my opponent supplies so that there is as level a playing field as possible - besides, I lose fewer sticks that way. I won't let him go with something too light (after all, we're talking about a Gathering here) but typically, they will bring out their "special" pair which are usually their best fighting sticks. Regarding Ray's comment about the need for heavier sticks as a result of fighters using heavy gloves. To a point this is true, but I have noticed more and more that fighters are starting to wear lighter gloves, due (I think) to the influx of ground fighting that happens (it's easier to grapple with batting gloves than hockey gloves) and also to the fact that it is simply harder to maneuver the stick around when the glove does not allow you to articulate your wrist. I like using the lighter gloves because it keeps me honest knowing that it won't protect me from a clean hard shot (it also motivates me to keep moving!). When striking the ground, I have always regarded with some reservation the strategy of going for the feet with what appeared to me to be a "witik" (or variation) to the ground. It might be effective if your opponent is barefoot or the stick is weighted at the end but otherwise it looked pretty weak as far as shots go. The ground strike that Marc referred to that I use is simply a "Caveman" power shot that does not use your body to recover - it uses the ground. It is best combined with a "pounce"-type of attack where your power shot cuts through anything in its path starting at the top all the way down to the feet. The key ingredient to finishing the hit is to have your stick hand and the shaft hit the ground at the same time. If the tip hits too much ahead of your hand you will tend to lose it especially when you use a lot of power. Special note - it's a lot harder to hit your opponent's feet than you might think so use this shot once or twice a session (i.e. over the course of 5 or 6 fights). ------------------------------ From: "simoun crisostomo" Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 10:12:19 -0000 Subject: eskrima: pictures of moro warriors from 1900's for those interested in moro warriors, i found pictures from the american period of the philippines the links are: http://www.dnai.com/~soongliu/SavageAndSoldier/articles/asia/MoroPic1.jpg http://www.dnai.com/~soongliu/SavageAndSoldier/articles/asia/MoroPic2.jpg they're supposed to accompany the story at http://www.dnai.com/~soongliu/SavageAndSoldier/articles/asia/Moro.html simoun crisostomo _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 04:27:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Re: Bill McGrath and Fishkill, New York Mr. McGrath wrote: This year's charity is the "Make a Wish" Foundation which is dedicated to granting a special wish to terminally ill children. Place: Estelle & Alfonso's Dance Studio2206 Route 9Fishkill, NY. 12524 Time: 1 PM to 5 PMCost: $40 - -Response: How far are you from Suffern, New York. Used to go to RCC in Suffern. Fishkill, New York sounds familiar. New Jersey people often hit New York borders on weekends since the drinking age was 17 at the time. Hit me privately if u prefer. Ken McD... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. http://shopping.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2000 5:45:44 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #569 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.