From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #587 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 20 Dec 2000 Vol 07 : Num 587 In this issue: eskrima: Christmas Location eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #586 eskrima: More on Canes eskrima: Cane eskrima: Cane eskrima: Thoroughly OT eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #586 eskrima: Re: seminar trained teacher OK? (longish) eskrima: Re: Merry Christmas from snowy PA eskrima: FMA in York? eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1200 members strong! Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource An open FMA discussion forum provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay, Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "William T. Anderson" Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 13:40:39 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Christmas Location Chad, I'll be having weather similiar to yours. I'll be celebrating christmas on Guam and will be having practice on the beach as I have for the last few years. As they say in the Philippines: Malayagang Pasko sa iyo (Merry Christmas to you) Bill Maharlika Kuntaw Guam ------------------------------ From: Kjowers194@cs.com Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 22:42:38 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #586 Hello and Merry Christmas back at you from a very cold (16 degrees Fahrenheit), icy, and about an inch of snow, Dyersburg,TN. Ken ------------------------------ From: Ray Langley Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 20:47:33 -0800 Subject: eskrima: More on Canes > Hi Ray, > > > 1. Have any of you actually used the cane in your full contact > > matches? > > Twice, against a Golden Whorde member, once with me using it, once with > him using it. His lack of being in the "full-contact" field showed > though and the cane didn't make much of a factor when he used it. My > instructor used it a couple of times and mainly used it to hook my > stick to get a brief pause for a thrust, and he did hook me behind my > knee once, that really hurt. Hi Chad, thanks for your input. There is no law that says you have to hold the cane by the crook end while you are swinging it! :-) The "strike and jerk" move also works well around the head, neck, ribs, and groin areas..... > > 2. Would you consider the cane to be more of a two-handed weapon? > > Depends on the cane and the situation. "Self-Defense" situations where > someone just rushes you, it could be used effectively as such. Also > the cane has a few neat little tricks on the ground. Yessir. I am interested in learning more about adapting the Dog Bros. "Fang" technique to the crook end of the cane. > > 4. Any tips for this over the hill, out of shape beginner? > > Practice. I don't think the cane has much of a different structure > from the stick. If you know how to use the stick in a real situation, > you will know how to use the cane as well. However if you train in > some outrageous tie-ups with the cane, you wind up being good at > outrageous tie-ups. This is my gut-feeling as well. It is nice to hear it confirmed from someone who actually gets in the ring with any kind of stick. The cane is merely a stick with a rounded/pointed end. > > 5. Would you consider the crook/horn to be a liability or an > > advantage in a real street situation? > > As I stated above, I don't feel that the stick has any really big > significant difference from the cane on how some people emphasize. > Sure a few things are different, but so is it with a heavy stick vs > light stick. Best way to find out for sure is to gear up. Also, you > can hold the cane with the crook of the tip as your punyo and it has a > built in guard and good for hooking punches at close or clinch range. > Hope that helps some... > ===== > Chad chad@fullcontacthi.com Thanks a million Chad for your informed opinions. This old fart isn't likely going to be "gearing up" anytime soon! - ---------- > I've just been practising kali/arnis for two years, > I'm just a begginer. I'm a student of Lema Scientific > Kali Arnis System here in Davao City, Philippines. I > just want to comment that Kali/Arnis/Escrima is not > biased in the use of weapons nor is it just a weapon > based art. What I mean is an Escrimador trained in the > art can use whatever weapon he has in his hand, > whether it is short or long. May it be a stick, a > bottle of beer or coke, a pair of scissors, a ballpen > and yes even a cane. Ultimately the HAND is the REAL > WEAPON...what it grasps i just an extension. Hi Paulo, I agree with what you are saying, but in my case I am too old and worn out to worry too much about empty hands unless that is my final option..... > Congratulations! You already achieved your goal > Kali/Arnis/Escrima is the most highly effective system > using the cane, regardless of its different styles or > islands of origin. Yessir, I am also convinced of that fact. > I'm just going to answer your 2nd and 5th question. > Definetly a cane is a two handed weapon (1 cane per > hand) as well as anything that you can grasp in your > hand provided that it has a rigid structure regardless > of length. A crook or a horn is an advatage in a real > street situation. Anything grasped in your hand is an > advantage, any weapon is an advatage, especially if > your opponent doesn't have anything in his hands. Good point, no contest. > Lastly my tip is do not loose sight of the main > principle of Kali/Arnis/Escrima...Self Defense. The > stick used in practice is just an introduction to the > art, just an instrument to learn the principles of > Kali. Try doing your basic strikes and defenses > without using the stick or the cane. Imagine that your > forearm is the stick and your fist as the tip of the > stick. Maybe you'll understand what I mean. > your brother in the art, > paulo solana I agree with you to a certain extent. I think that my empty hand fighting days are over. Even though I am constantly armed with a heavy hickory cane, I am certainly not even slightly overconfident. After viewing the Dog Brothers tapes, I have seen many big, strong guys take some very hard hits to the head, knees, etc., and they keep on coming! In the past I have been taught that a hit to the knee or the head would stop any attacker. It seems that this is not the case. - -- Ray Langley, "Have Luo Pan, Will Travel!" ------------------------------ From: "BILL MCGRATH" Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 00:13:22 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Cane You can download an mpeg of a basic cane set I put together for my guys on Ashley Bass' site (it's a cool archive of many system's mpegs and photos): http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Pantheon/5640/ Look for the "Pekiti-Tirsia International" mpegs about a third of the way down the page and click "walking stick (cane) set". Re: Canemasters: I liked the weight and overall construction of the hickory versions of the combat canes I have seen, but as they belonged to someone else I couldn't do a breakage test on them. Hickory does have a good rep among N. American hardwoods though. The Canemaster canes come in large crook (practice) and medium crook (combat) but I felt that even the combat sized crook was a bit large and would have liked something tighter. This may have been due to a limited bend available when using hickory. I prefer a ball top rather than a crook cane (I like the balance better) and emailed Canemasters trying to get some 36" straight sticks that I could make into ball top canes. Even though they carry 29" "eskrima sticks" they said they could not help me. Re: one vs two hands on cane. I made a few canes out of 36 " tapered rattan for my students and they have a nice balance for either two or one hand use for my height (6' 1"). A piece of straight and heavy (1 & 1/4") rattan feels better to me two handed when it gets much over 36 inches in length. I go to Bamboo and Rattan in Lakewood, NJ for my rattan. What I like to use they refer to as Mandau or yellow Indonesian rattan. Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath http://www.pekiti-tirsia.com PS. I hope that Canemaster's advertisements and articles don't eventually blow it for the legality of canes. ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 23:11:14 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Cane A Howl etc: I think it was Ray who asked about the cane. To Chad's comments I would add: 1) We had a guy try cane at a Gathering once and about 5 seconds into the fight he twirled it and the hook hit his wrist and he disarmed himself. 2) Personally I'd rather have a straight one. 3) Most of the canes I've seen with hooks are made for old people and are really light-- it might be hard to put a dent in a cranky citizen with them. 4) Viz the legality thing: I know they are billed as legal, but IMHO it might be a bit more slippery than that in some jurisdictions. Yes you have an answer to curious authorities, but if you're not limping it might not be persuasive-- particularly if you have something more substantial than the light ones to which I referred in 3) and if you don't, its usefulness may be incomplete against anything more than a wino. There is also the additional matter of post-application variables if your departure was not timely. If you cannot show a relevant physical ailment, and you have what in effect is a club, and the other guy is down, you are likely to be getting the hairy eyeball from the badges who have shown up. In legal terms it might even be said that you had intent to carry a deadly weapon. Woof, Crafty Dog ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2000 23:23:09 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Thoroughly OT A Howl of Greeting to All: If I may be permitted a thoroughly off topic post. What with all the holiday cheer, December is are a notorious month for depression. Next time you are feeling sorry for yourself, here are some facts about the 1500's that might make you offer some perspective: Most people got married in June because they took their yearly bath in May and still smelled pretty good by June; however, they were starting to smell so brides carried a bouquet of flowers to hide the body odor. Baths consisted of a big tub filled with hot water. The man of the house had the privilege of the nice clean water, then all the other sons and men, then the women, and finally the children -- last of all the babies. By then the water was so dirty you could actually lose someone in it -- hence the saying "Don't throw the baby out with the bath water!" Houses had thatched roofs -- thick straw, piled high, with no wood underneath. It was the only place for animals to get warm, so all the dogs, cats and other small animals (mice, rats and bugs) lived in the roof. When it rained it became slippery and sometimes the animals would slip and fall off the roof -- hence the saying "It's raining cats and dogs!" There was nothing to stop things from falling into the house. This posed a real problem in the bedroom where bugs and other droppings could really mess up your nice clean bed. Hence a bed with big posts and a sheet hung over the top afforded some protection. That's how canopy beds came into existence. The floor was dirt. Only the wealthy had something other than dirt; hence the saying "dirt poor." The wealthy had slate floors that would get slippery in the winter when wet, so they spread thresh on the floor to help keep their footing. As the winter wore on, they kept adding more thresh until when you opened the door it would all start slipping outside. A piece of wood was placed in the entryway; hence, a "threshold." They cooked in the kitchen with a big kettle that always hung over the fire. Every day they lit the fire and added things to the pot. They ate mostly vegetables and did not get much meat. They would eat stew for dinner, leaving leftovers in the pot to get cold overnight and then start over the next day. Sometimes the stew had food in it that had been there for quite a while; hence the rhyme, "peas porridge hot, peas, porridge cold, peas porridge in the pot nine days old." Sometimes they could obtain pork, which made them feel quite special. When visitors came, they would hang up their bacon to show off. It was a sign of wealth that a man "could bring home the bacon." They would cut off a little to share with guests and would all sit around and "chew the fat." Those with money had plates of pewter. Food with high acid content caused some of the lead to leach onto the food, causing lead poisoning and death. This happened most often with tomatoes, so for the next 400 years or so, tomatoes were considered poisonous. Most people did not have pewter plates, but had trenchers, a piece of wood with the middle scooped out like a bowl. Often trenchers were made from stale bread which was so old and hard that they could use them for quite some time. Trenchers were never washed and a lot of times worms and mold got into the wood and old bread. After eating off wormy, moldy trenchers, one would get "trench mouth." Bread was divided according to status. Workers got the burned bottom of the loaf, the family got the middle, and guests got the top or "uppercrust." Lead cups were used to drink ale or whiskey. The combination would sometimes knock them out for a couple of days. Someone walking along the road would take them for dead and prepare them for burial. They were laid out on the kitchen table for a couple of days, and the family would gather around and eat and drink and wait and see if they would wake up; hence the custom of holding a "wake." England is old and small and they started running out of places to bury people, so they would dig up coffins and take the bones to a "bone house" and reuse the grave. When reopening these coffins, one out of 25 coffins were found to have scratch marks on the inside and they realized they had been burying people alive. So they thought they would tie a string on the wrist of the corpse, lead it through the coffin and up through the ground and tie it to a bell. Someone would have to sit out in the graveyard all night (the "graveyard shift") to listen for the bell; thus, someone could be "saved by the bell" or was considered a "dead ringer." ------------------------------ From: abanico-video-knuettel@t-online.de (Dieter =?iso-8859-1?Q?Kn=FCttel?=) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 09:57:45 +0100 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #586 > Merry Christmas from Hawaii at 80 degrees and sunny with tropic winds. > Where's everyone else at? Hi everybody, here in Dortmund/Germany, we have beautiful blue sky and sunshine with - -1 degree celsius (31 degreed Farenheid). I think we should start wearing socks in our sandals when we go swimming in the lake today ;-) Merry Christmas from Germany Dieter PS: Any questions regarding contents/order infos of the new Mike Inay tapes: just mail me privately under dk@abanico.de - --- Dieter Knüttel ABANICO Video Productions http://www.abanico.de European Modern Arnis Representative http://modern-arnis.de ------------------------------ From: jester@jdweb.com Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:14:22 GMT Subject: eskrima: Re: seminar trained teacher OK? (longish) Bladewerkr@aol.com worte: >>>I had a call from a friends son with an interesting question. I thought I might like to see how others feel about it. Where he is the only instructor of fma is of let's say questionable linage. A very nice, and sincere person and a heck of a nice guy, but a "Seminar trained and start your own organization" guy. His question was isn't it better to train in something with real live people than to do nothing except solo training. I have mho on this but would like some feedback. Thanks and respects to all>>> I'd like to hear these views also; I'm kind of in your teacher's position. Some history: After a few years of Karate/TKD, in 1994 I started in a local style of Jujitsu & Arnis. My teacher had been in the arts for ~20 years, with a Shodan in Judo, and high colored rank in Karate & Danzan Ryu JuJitsu. (since he was the "founder" of this style, he claimed higher - 5th Dan in the new art) His FMA primarily came from videos & seminars (primarily Modern Arnis) and (IIRC) some "paramilitary" stick from a combat Judo instructor of his. Still, he moved better & was more practical IMO than the "legit" 3rd & 4th Dans in TKD/Karate in the area. I've since gotten 2nd Dan in that style. Fast forward: my cousin wanted me to teach an FMA class at his TKD school. Since my teacher had shifted his style away from FMA (only JuJitsu now) I said yes (otherwise I'd still be a student of his, but I prefer FMA). "A good way to spread the art and keep myself in training", thought I. The closest legit FMA that I know of is over an hour away, and the guy, while good, is..."personality incompatible"... My problem is confidence - since I don't teach under anyone's wing, I'm always questioning myself. I buy tapes, attend seminars, study FMA web resources, etc. and try to incorporate improvements into the class, but it's tough. I have a very relaxed class atmosphere - I think of it more as a "club" than "my class" - I'm not into the "worship me" thing. I'd like to know others' views on what I'm doing. jester ------------------------------ From: jester@jdweb.com Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 15:23:17 GMT Subject: eskrima: Re: Merry Christmas from snowy PA We just had 6-8" of snow and high temps in the 20's (wind chill in the teens). I gotta get a hat and some gloves...shoveling this morning was a bear. I'll just keep sunny Hawaii in my thoughts, Chad... ;-) jester ------------------------------ From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Matthew=20Barclay?= Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 16:07:24 +0000 (GMT) Subject: eskrima: FMA in York? Hi y'all, I've recently relocated to York, (England) and I am at a loss to find any FMA/SEA martial arts in the general area. Any information would be gratefully received. Thanks in advance, Matt ____________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.co.uk address at http://mail.yahoo.co.uk or your free @yahoo.ie address at http://mail.yahoo.ie ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 8:37:06 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V7 #587 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2000: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.