From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #17 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 10 Jan 2001 Vol 08 : Num 017 In this issue: eskrima: Information on Tom Carnes? Re: eskrima: resume listing? yes or no eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #16 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #15 eskrima: Re: resume listing? yes or no eskrima: Re: Twin Cities Kali eskrima: Re: resume listing? yes or no eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1200 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource An open FMA discussion forum provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay, Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kendal Coats Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:28:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Information on Tom Carnes? Guys I need to check this guy out, his name is Tom Carnes of Chico, California. He somehow got my name and address and has been calling me asking for video fotage of my teachers. Does anybody out there know him, have trained with him ect. He has made some rather large claims about rack certificates and even included vidoe of them on a tape he sent to me (they look a little questionable). I have my own opinions about what I have seen on his tape, but want additional information before I decide on a course of action, or whether I just blow him off. Hope someone out there can help Peace __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - Share your holiday photos online! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Dave Mariner" Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:30:28 -0000 Subject: Re: eskrima: resume listing? yes or no Dale, Firstly I'd say that you're asking in the wrong place - hands up anyone here who wouldn't interview someone listing MA on their CV! That said, if I were you I'd keep it. I can't speak for corporate america, but if the market is similar to the UK then you'll primarily get the interview on your MSCE/NCE/whatever basis - that's what they'll be paying you for, after all. What you will do, however, is give the interviewer an ideal icebreaker for the start. Even if he knows nothing about MA, he'll bring it up, thus giving you the opportunity to show what a well-rounded individual you have become through the arts. If you strike lucky then you'll get interviewed by someone who has a MA background, and you'll be home free as long as you can throw in enough work-related talk between discussing takedowns and stick-techniques! But above all, remember that you should be proud of your MA background, not ashamed of it. If they're the kind of employer that'll take a closed-minded view of it, is it really somewhere that you'll be happy working? Better not to get the interview in the first place than find out 3 months down the line. It's a big world out there - someone'll come along that'll want YOU, and that'll be the best job for you. Anyway, enough of my ramblings - best of luck in the job-hunting! Dave Mariner overworked@mad.scientist.com ========================= Windows NT crashed. I am the Blue Screen of Death. No one hears your screams. - - Windows Haiku ------------------------------ From: "Richard Killick" Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:31:15 -0000 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #16 I had a friend who in the late 80's went to Hong Kong for three to four years. Any way he got work playing the bad guy in Kong Fu films (he was tkd guy) and doing stunt work etc. When he came back to the UK, he got a nice job in a merchant bank, he mainly spent his interview talking about the bit parts he had done, banking skills need not really come up. Cool to have stunt man on your CV. His name was Ja'was of something French sounding. But as someone who has to hire people, I hardly ever look at peoples hobbies and if I do I start worry that they will over train and be to tired to work or worst , that they spend all day e-mailing the E-Digest. (Whoops) Richard Killick > the candidate has run out of things to say and is trying to fill the page. > Resumes should be short and highly focused; hobbies have no place on a > resume. > > Of course, if you're applying for a position as an eskrima instructor... > > Tom > > > ------------------------------ > ------------------------------ From: M2341@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 12:48:49 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #15 This is going out to T2J2M2@cs.com and Sifu Brian Henderson for their advice. Thanks ... I'll train hard and let you know how it is coming. Peace Michael ------------------------------ From: "Buz Grover" Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:58:18 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Re: resume listing? yes or no >>Use it or loose it on the resume?<< I'd say use it, albeit with discretion. As an IT manager in a college environment I know I flag applications with MA experience for a closer look. Though I'm hardly the norm, all our full time hires are done through a hiring committee of at least three; qualifications like military service, volunteer work, and MA experience are considered by every committee I served on. My sense is that non-vocational interests that indicate perseverance and an ability to overcome adversity are good selling points. With that said, as a former chef I know presentation is everything. If some knuckle dragger walks in, says "Fight Club" is his favorite movie, and indicates on his resume that he enjoys beating people to jelly with sticks then I'd say MA experience is not much of a selling point. If, however, a presentable person has a line on his resume indicating MA interests and states during the interview that he "trains in the indigenous martial arts developed by the Filipino people to defend their villages," my sense is it would be a plus. A proviso, though: I've got two resumes, one that mentions my shooting and other martial interests, and one that does not. In a college environment particularly, there are some organizations I'd think about working for that would not consider my fondness for firearms and other interests a boon. A final note: resumes are two way streets. They can also be used to communicate your expectations to a potential employer. I use to do some some hard core caving that would take me out of town for three or four days every couple months and leave me gimping for a couple days upon my return. I always made mention of that interest in my resume and would raise the issue during the interview. Better to know ahead of time if an employer will accommodate your interests rather than get the gig and find out they won't. Regards, Buz Grover ------------------------------ From: Just This Guy Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:19:45 -0600 (CST) Subject: eskrima: Re: Twin Cities Kali I attend Rick Faye's school here in Minneapolis, and it's a very good school, the best in the state at least. Kali, Silat, JKD. ------------------------------ From: Terry Tippie Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 13:27:08 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: resume listing? yes or no 20 years ago when I entered the work force I was dealing with corporate cultures that still resembled the 1950s & 1960s in which the management wanted small round conformist thoughts in conformist minds to fit their conformist corporate work environment. I'm glad that most young people starting out today don't have to experience this type of corporate culture. If you are unfortunate enough to find yourself in that kind of environment I wouldn't mention artistic interests of any sort--especially if you are looking at a low-level position. In that environment wear a gray or dark blue suit, clean shoes and cut your hair. Speaking from the perspective of a hiring director/entrepeneur today in Silicon Valley the corporate cultures are quite different. I look for highly intelligent, talented and driven individuals. I don't care if they wear a suit or not. Hell, they can be pink with green stripes if they can design and implement high-speed optical internetworks. I believe successful people rarely have only one talent but usually have several. Artistic accomplishment in the context of overall professional success is desirable because it says that this person has self-motivation and discipline sufficient to succeed at a project over a long period of time. That can leave a very positive impression. I would probably be concerned with the contrary: a person with a high degree of technical skill but no other interests or achievements. The question that arises is: Does s/he have the people skills necessary to interact with customers? If an item like martial arts appears on your resume it will probably draw a question. Be prepared to speak positively--but briefly--about the role martial arts has played in your life. For example, "Martial arts really helped me develop the discipline and perseverence I needed to succeed in school and work," is a good answer. And if the interview is going well you can even throw in a joke, such as: "Yeah, it comes in handy when you have to ask for a raise." Answers that mention martial arts but also highlight a weakness like, "Martial arts helped me kick my heroin habit," may be positive and inspiring but, um, should be avoided. For most full-time or full-time+ positions a hiring manager will probably want reassurance that your extracurricular activities will take a lower priority than your work. If you're good they'll try to work with you to help you to succeed and around the other comittments in your life. A couple of examples: If you're going to work at a startup for 50,000 pre-IPO shares and have a chance at being a gazillionaire they will expect you to work with a 90 hour/week obsession towards creating share holder value. People like that should expect to see their martial arts career go on the shelves for a couple of years. At the same time your marital arts will probably provide you the inspiration to perservere and do battle against the competition. And that will gain you respect. If, however, you are working at a 50 hour/week job your martial arts hobby shouldn't be a problem. Alternate work environments do exist. A consulting job can provide you alot of flexibility in your work schedule such that you can, for example, go the Phillippines for one month per year and study. The general rule is to set expectations honestly and clearly with your employer up front. Bear in mind the purpose of a resume is to get you an interview. Once that has been accomplished the resume has served its function. Then its up to you to sell yourself. I've never mentioned any martial arts on my resume for three reasons: 1) Space: Because I have a lot of other information on my resume and am thus space constrained, 2) Relevance: Because personal information is not necessary for me to obtain an interview in my line of work, 3) Control: I like to size up my interviewer first and establish myself as a professional before I mention personal information. I want to subtly be in control of the interview and lead them in the direction I want to take them. It is just like controlling a fight, right? Regards, Terry Tippie Pacifica, CA USA ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 15:44:54 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #17 *************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.