From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #47 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Thur, 25 Jan 2001 Vol 08 : Num 047 In this issue: eskrima: Reception eskrima: Ex-pres estrada eskrima: superstitions vs. Science eskrima: Introvert vs. Extrovert eskrima: Kamagond daggers? eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #45 eskrima: Re: BJJ/rape/guard eskrima: Femi-nazis and the boy-man. eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Elite Self Defense Centers" Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 11:07:54 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Reception The ELITE SELF DEFENSE CENTERS, in Wisconsin, is proud to announce that they will be hosting an Open House and Reception for Suro Jason Inay. Suro Jason Inay assumed the top leadership position of the Inayan System of Eskrima after the passing of Mangisursuro Mike Inay in September 2000. Since then, Suro Jason Inay has been working very hard to continue the work and dreams of his father. He has been fulfilling all the training obligations of the organization and trying to meet as many instructors and students, of Inayan Eskrima as possible, in order to determine how he can best serve them. He has recently returned from a trip from Europe, where he was welcomed with great warmth and enthusiasm. Everyone was pleased and impressed with his leadership and skill level and are eagerly awaiting his return. This reception is a chance to meet Suro Jason Inay in an informal gathering where he will present information such as: - History of the Inayan System of Eskrima; - Plans for the future of the Inayan System of Eskrima; and - Answer questions. Location of Reception: ELITE SELF DEFENSE CENTERS 110 4th Ave Baraboo, Wisconsin Date/Time: January 30th at 6:30 - 8:30 PM Cost: FREE FREE FREE Everyone is welcome to attend, hope to see you there. Contact: Tom Lopez (608) 846-4895 or (608) 643-3048 ------------------------------ From: Danny Alvendia Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 10:02:41 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Ex-pres estrada Ray, estrada portrayed the poor, oppressed, abused and ganged-up, beaten, person who rises to the occassion to save the day. In real life he portrayed the villain to the people and quite the opposite of his roles. The limp must be due to health reasons ... gout maybe ... ====================== Danny Alvendia dannya@mayannetworks.com From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 19:15:07 PST Subject: eskrima: Action star ? Former RP President Estrada was a former action movie star? What type of action movies did he do? He seems to walk with a bad limp... an accident from stunt work? Just curious. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Kendal Coats Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 10:34:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: superstitions vs. Science Let me begin to say that IMHO the chi debate is as fruitless as the argument over the existance of God or which religion has rights to the "one true God". That being said, Science has always chased what spiritualist and mystics have practiced since its inception. Science looks to explain all facets of nature and the Universe using logic mathmatics and the scientific method. Unfortunately for science, its very slow to change. History teaches that accepted scientific theory once placed the Earth as the center of the solar system with the sun, moon and planets rotating around the earth, and the Earth being flat. Western science once subscribed to the 5 element theory, until molecular and atomic compositions were discovered. It was once argued that the atom was the smallest particle in existance, then we discovered the existance of subatomic particles. I digress, but I bet you can follow. What about those things that science does not understand yet. Those things man has yet to build a machine capable of measuring. Once the X-ray was thought speculative and superstitious but now its a common practice, and even more we can use magnetic imaging to take snapshots inside a human without cutting them open. We are surrounded by many things that only a few years ago was thought of as fiction, or fantasy. One would be a FOOL if they thought science was complete or made statements that all that is to be known is known. (A famous politition once said that the pattent office was no longer needed as man has invented all that there was to invent circa 1910) As to the existance of Chi, 5000 years of Oriental Medicine has been bassed on its laws, fact is accupuncture works, meridian theories work, whether you feel western medicine is better is up to you. Many cultures other than Chinese also have an understanding of these things. So please do not discount them as uninformed, closed minded or superstitious. Someone here stated that they could not explain electricity, but we still use it everyday. Chi is like that, we cannot easily explain it, yet is a part of us and the world around us. Ulitmately your beliefs are yours, but do not judge me for mine. There are many things in the Universe that I cant explain, but that does not mean I am ignorant. One day science will catch up, or man will learn to except things on faith and move on. As for me, I shall not waste any more of my time on arguments. Peace Out __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Loki Jorgenson Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 12:21:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Introvert vs. Extrovert :: ::From: "Marc Denny" ::Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:34:30 -0800 :: ::1) Concerning Men and Women's thought processes: Men think, then talk, ::Women talk to discover what they think. :: Usually I would attribute that characterization to the distinction between introverts and extroverts. Dialogue, internal (introverts) or external (extroverts), is essential to organizing our thoughts from our feelings, perceptions and impressions. In the case of introverts, that emotional dialogue is not visible - but one shouldn't assume it doesn't take place. We either talk to ourselves or to others. So the process is essentially the same for both types (IMHO). - -- 'gards, /\ Pekiti-Tirsia kali / \ silat Jati Wisesa Loki Jorgenson < MANOyBASTON Martial Arts > / __ \ Dog Brothers MA loki@pekiti-tirsia.org (604) 254-0240 / _L \ Majapahit Empire www.pekiti-tirsia.org/ManoBaston/ /________\ (Inosanto-IMAIA) ------------------------------ From: "Michael Barnes" Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:17:21 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Kamagond daggers? Sorry to bother the digest with this but... Does anyone know where I can get Kamagong daggers that would be sufficient for lock and block drills. I've tried many web pages but the only wood I can find is bahi. Any suggestions....? Thank you... Michael Barnes ------------------------------ From: Powrscrol@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:38:14 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #45 In a message dated 1/24/01 9:12:58 PM Pacific Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I guess the whole point is that "something" is happening when the concept of chi is involved >> I have a section on chi in my book; you might want to check it out. Part is a little-known, instant hand chi activation/projection technique (Acutration); & part an examination of chi's constituents. Steve W. Empty Hands Can Do http://www.powrscrol.com/ ------------------------------ From: Chad Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:46:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Re: BJJ/rape/guard I asked a someon, who happens to be a girl, who also happens to train and fight in NHB/MMA fights about her take on self defense. I told her that I was interested in her opinion of the physical side and not so much the mental aspect, psychological, awareness, etc. I didn't tell her my stand on it, I just asked her opinion, this is what she said: >Chad I hope I do not offend you but I have some opinions on womens >self defense you might not agree on. #1 I dont like women taking a >self defense weekend seminar I think all these seminars do for one is >line the pocket of the instructor giving it and give the woman a false >sence of security!! lets face it being able to defend yourself takes >time to learn!!! you cant learn to fight in a weekend or from watching >some video. #2 I dont like men teaching self defense to women. A man >has no idea how a woman is going to react in any given situation. Plus >I have seen men be too soft on women in training just because she is a >woman she is given a little slack!!! that dont cut it with me. I dont >care if a woman crys or gives me the puppy dog sad eyes!!I think women >need to train right along the side of men and train with them, all my >sparring partners are men!! If you would like my opinions on what arts >are best for women to train for self defense I say Kick boxing and Jiu->Jitsu!!! the only reason I say Jiu-Jitsu is because it gets women use >to dealing with mens strength, not that I would ever want to see a >woman grapple a man for self defense but if she had too at least she >would be familiar with it. I hope I may have answered some of your >questions if you have anything else just ask I would be more than >happy to answer them if I could. To which I responded: Michelle, Actually, I agree with you 100%. The original discussion started with me stating that the guard could be a viable option for a women(hell, anyone) to learn in a rape self defense situation which the topic was about. Logic being that he wants to get between the legs, and once he is there, knowledge of the guard(triangle or arm bar to snap the elbow maybe) could be very useful while he post his hand and reaches down with the other to undo his pants. Of course, I don't think a woman would even want to go there, and theres all this awareness, etc., etc., but I feel exactly as you do. I don't think a seminar will teach self defense and a woman(or anyone) that wants to learn self defense should train hard. Also to mention the psycholigical game that a woman could talk to get the man into certain positions. "Here, put this leg on your shoulder...here, touch my left breast with my left hand, etc." I agree with you 100%, I feel that if some of these self defense instructors can teach "women" techniques effective enough to defend herself in a weekend seminar, then hell, why ain't it good for the rest of us??? I have to train my ass off hard everyday and wake up soar every morning. I do see though, how a seminar can be recorded and given to the individuals with some training methods and ideas on the tape so that the individuals can go home and work out. END Also, a quick point on my original post about this. I was stating that I think knowledge of the guard for a rape situation is as such: Men use the guard to put a man in there so that he doesn't get mounted, from there he tries to submit him, punch him, eye gouges, bites, sweeps, and kick him out into a long range guard. The difference with a rape situation is that a man is trying to stay between her legs. And even while men do punch women in this type of situation, he probably will not be doing a ground and pound. Now a woman that can train and handle a ground and pound *should* be able to deal with a ,measlyt slap, punch, or two. Its an interesting thread, and one that I am very much interested in. I have rolled with my mother BTW. ===== Chad chad@fullcontacthi.com Full Contact Stickfighting Hawaii http://www.fullcontacthi.com http://www.egroups.com/group/stickfighting __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 14:07:03 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Femi-nazis and the boy-man. A Howl of Greeting to All: > Crafty writes:<< In a sense my visceral reaction to the femi-nazi mindset is > because I see it is an ideology that seeks to have the theories of the mind > determine what we each of us is instead of celebrate it. >> > > I think, Crafty, that I understand where you are coming from. I utterly > disagree with *any* philosphy that demands that we must act or think in a > certain way - and that those women who are most comfortable with expressing > the classical "feminine" aspects should not be hung out to dry by certain > feminists. > > However, I think your exposure to feminism has been one of an extreme. , , , You have no idea! My mom co-chaired a committee in the local Democratic Party with Bella Abzug that met at our house every week. Betty Freidan was over at the house more than once. It gets worse from there. > So I call myself a Humanist. I am not seeking "equality" as in "everyone the > same"... I am seeking for everyone, regardless of race, gender or sexual > preference, to have the *opportunity* to be other than what society views as > "normal" for them without being persecuted. > > In essence, I'd like *more* diversity, not less. I'd like the _individual_ > to be able to determine what is right for them, not society as a whole. As one often seen as abnormal, I have no problem with this. , , , , , > I've got no problem with my 6 year old girl wearing pink frilly dresses and > wearing nail polish. But she also plays tackle soccer with her dad, has a > passion for kickboxing and wears basketball sneakers with that pink dress. > She decides who she is and what she likes. > > The hurdle isn't making women into killers. The hurdle is allowing them to > think of themselves in terms of the type of person they *want* to be verses > the type of person that they have been told they *should* be. > > Meghan Gardner Meghan, this is good as far as it goes BUT IMHO there is more: The fact is that although your formulation not address the point, the ruling ideology DOES portray statistical deviations from numerical parity between men and women as sexism, piggery, discrimination, oppression etc. IMHO this is madness. (There are exceptions BTW. I have yet to see a femi-nazi call for 50% of busboys to be women for example, but I digress) Even if it were possible to eliminate socialization and generalizations based upon sex, as best as I can tell the results would not be identical for men and women in myriad ways. The ruling femi-nazi ideology seeks to deny this. The f-ns seek to impose the theories of their minds over our lives through the coercive force of the State and to the extent that they succeed our freedom is lessened. The subtle thing about the human animal is that it is genetically programmed to receive culture/education just as it is programmed to receive language. This point is worthy of thought. As you note Meghan, contradicting the individual child's nature is not right, (and this is what I understand your point to be) but if men and women are on the whole different, then IMHO and no disrespect intended to your parenting, it is incomplete to say that the child decides, also the parent must guide. A pre-pubescent child lacks the hormones and experiences to understand the matters it will face as a sexually matured male or female. IMHO parents SHOULD educate in a way that is harmonious with the fact of sexual differences, but as I understand it, the ruling ideology says this belief is sexist/oppressive etc, so a hearty F.U. from me to the ruling ideology. This does drift pretty far afield from FMA, and I'm perfectly willing to let it drop (or keep it going for that matter :-) ) but it did touch upon the issue of WSD training. As for the point about men being willing to kill: Konrad Lorenz makes the point that the rapidity of technological evolution outstrips that of our genetic evolution with the net result that the human animal can now kill without being up close and personal. This endruns the evolutionary mechanisms, imperfect as they may be, where in the loser's offer of surrender triggers cessation of the aggressive discharge. Jane Goodall's extraordinary work with the chimpanzees in Tanzania offers a good idea of what I'm trying to communicate here. (This point may also explain why killing with a knife is said to trigger harsher treatment from the law-- an inchoate understanding of what it takes to do the deed with a knife is qualitatively different than with a gun.) Noted war historian John Keegan brings out the point the one of the most important changes in war was from "the horde" to "the phalanx". (This is my first time writing about this so please be tolerant of imprecisions in expression) The nature of the horde is actually pretty similar to the man-apes at the waterhole at the end of DB #3. Lots of noise and hooping and hollering until one sides runs away. So too with the horde-- once it feels that the odds are against it, it breaks form and runs away. It is with the Greeks innovation of the Phalanx that overcame the natural human aversion to closing by locking all members into a larger organism that war making shifted to another level. This is an important element of why the Romans were able to consistently to defeat larger numbers of barbarians. Another point, and this relates back to the previous point about the ontogeny of the individual, if one looks at traditional societies it is my understanding that ALL of them have some sort of initiation wherein the boy becomes a man-- and some boys fail. It is only in the modern world that the imparting of the male understanding has broken down. (I offer for consideration BTW that this is why there is so much rape) An uninitiated male is psychologically a boy. (Just look at our recently departed president: severely broken relation with his father, never served in the military, never held a job in the private sector.) Thus, I offer for consideration that an uninitiated male is less likely to have the balls to "do what it takes". Woof, Crafty Dog ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:55:34 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #47 *************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.