From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #48 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Fri, 26 Jan 2001 Vol 08 : Num 048 In this issue: eskrima: Re: On that Ki/Qi/Chi thang... eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #47 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #47 "Mindboxing/chi" eskrima: Re: Action Star eskrima: Living Longer eskrima: Gender Differences eskrima: KunTao-Silat deThouars Seminar - Florida eskrima: Greetings from Cebu City, PI eskrima: Interesting point eskrima: Important: Seminar Update eskrima: Accept on Faith eskrima: kamagong dagas eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse Greenawalt" Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 19:50:25 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Re: On that Ki/Qi/Chi thang... There are certainly unexplained phenomena extant, that in the fullness of time will be explained. There are also charlatans making $$ faking these. I have never experienced a manifestation of Ki that I couldn't explain by other means, but my experience is limited; I certainly don't live in a hotbed of MA (or anything else, for that matter). There are 2 things that keep me skeptical: 1) The power of suggestion. There are still people out there swearing to me that things are a CERTAIN WAY because they've experienced them that have no knowledge of the placebo effect or the power of suggestion. I tend to discount these as easily as I discount the chiropractors still preaching subluxation theory. 2) Although impossible to disprove, it should be easy enough to prove the existence of Ki through empirical evidence, and it hasn't happened. Randi has offered BIG bucks to anyone who can demonstrate this. You'd think there'd be ONE. People have had issues with Randi's fine print. OK. But it seems to me that someone that can REALLY do the "big claims" and prove it would be an instant celebrity and quickly rich in any case. Much more likely, IMO, that people become rich/famous on a smaller scale like old time snake oil salesmen (or modern day psychics). Will I believe if presented with personal evidence? Sure! In fact, that would be great - being a cynical ba$tard is no fun in this society. But I'm more inclined to think people attribute effects to Ki that are not. jester ___________________ www.kicksandstix.com Gemberling's Martial Arts Tae Kwon Do & Arnis ------------------------------ From: Chad Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 18:22:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #47 WOODEN DAGGERS I&I Sports sells a flat stick kamagong that is approxiamtely 28 inche3s or so. The first time I ordered they sent me one with a huge knot in the center, so I cut it and made to really nice daggers for what you are talking about. Or contact Michael Enad, hes on the list for some daggers that he hand-makes. Excellent work, though not Kamagong, the cocobolo peices that he made for me are excellent. Replicas of what Floro Villabrille used in some of his death matches. KI, CHI The Japanes say they have the ki. The chinese say they have the chi. The Filipinos have the double L. (L L) ??? Well when we have the knife, we KIll you and you CHIll. Crafty, is that the quote from Tuhon Gaje? Or something like that. I don't believe that ki/chi is mystic, and I think they can be scientifically studied and logically discussed. I have some thoughts here, but they go out pretty far from FMA. We breathe in oxygen(good energy, so to speak)...what we breathe out is no good to us(bad energy), which the tree takes in, and breathes out what is not good to it(oxygen which is good for us) I believe that there is a connection here, but I woun't go into detail, as I am in the midst of moving, but feel free to ponder, agree, or disagree. I think the chi/ki secret is how we(our bodies) utilize what is in the air. Chi levels are highest in clean air, where trees are, near running rivers, all areas where air/oxygen is abundant and air pollution is low to none. Of course, there are alot of points to be looked at and made, but I am moving and don't have the time to go into what I think about that right now. Plus we'd end up writing a book about the whole discussion, I've talked with people for hours on the subject and wouldn't know where to start typing the first word. KONRAD LORENZ I picked up a book "On Aggression" by Konrad Lorenz at Crafty's referral some time back as recommended reading. At first, I'm thinking WTF...Crafty must be a really smart guy ;), but seriously, if anyone here is interested in the human/or animal behaviors and patterns of interaction, Konrad Lorenz is definetly something to pick up. Check out his books at Borders or something before you order them at Amazon, though, his reading may be over some people's head...sometimes its over mine. But all in all, the over picture that Lorenz paints is one that makes sense when thought about and looked at after reading. Kind of like a Vicent Van Gough piece. FIGHTING WOMAN http://www.angelfire.com/az2/grapplegirl/ is the web site of the woman that I asked the question to. Please don't bombard her with e-mails telling her that she doesn't know what she is talking about if anyone feels that way about her statement. I asked her what her opinion was, and she made it clear that it was her outlook. The thread where I asked her is on the http://defend.net BJJ/MMA forum, try reading and replying there, she is vvery helpful...oh, and tell her Chad sent you. Anyway, Ms. J, maybe she can put in some input with you for F.A.T.E. her credentials in competitions are fairly long and longer than most men that are teaching self-defense. Hope it helps some. Oh, and turn the volume up when you check out her site. ===== Chad chad@fullcontacthi.com Full Contact Stickfighting Hawaii http://www.fullcontacthi.com http://www.egroups.com/group/stickfighting __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: T2J2M2@cs.com Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 21:27:27 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #47 "Mindboxing/chi" I feel compelled to say that, while I strongly doubt the existence of chi in the traditional Zen/meridian way, I did not say that the mind cannot do amazing things. I have seen documentaries where Tibetan monks are draped in cold wet sheets in freezing tempitures, only to dry them with the power of the mind. I have read of yogis in India creating a tumor on his arm, only to remove it with the power of the mind. What some people can do under hypnosis is amazing, but it is not mystical. It means that they have much better control over their involuntary nervous system them what the Western mind can conceive. For the 6 people test, the 3 Chinese MIGHT have been more suggestible CULTURALLY for the test then the westerners. A subjective feeling that one feels heat is not proof of anything. It's called a self-fulfilling prophecy. As for the Mindboxing website, someone asked if it looked like a legitimate martial arts site. In my opinion, they use the "mystery" of most Eastern religious and philosophical beliefs and stories of what some people can do with the mind in order to make a dollar. It seems like a watered down cafeteria type of Eastern religious beliefs and slick advertising. In the 4 tests areas, they seem to violate the laws of physics. The basically promise invulnerability and superhuman powers, 2 things which do not exist. ------------------------------ From: "Jay de Leon" Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 18:29:12 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Action Star ...And so, the poor, naive trusting Filipino voter trusted Joseph Estrada alias Kumander Alibasbas alias Batang Tondo, etc. to perform in real life as he did in reel life, only to discover he really was the "contrabida" (villain) in the story. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 19:12:09 PST Subject: eskrima: Living Longer > The Filipinos have the double L. (L L) ??? Well when we have the > knife, we KIll you and you CHIll. Gaje's Double LL... If we fight and I kill you first, I will Live Longer (LL). Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: TaoArt@aol.com Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 23:21:34 EST Subject: eskrima: Gender Differences Ray - if you want to pull the plug on this for the digest, please forward this to Crafty and we can take it off list. Crafty writes: << As you note Meghan, contradicting the individual child's nature is not right, (and this is what I understand your point to be) but if men and women are on the whole different, then IMHO and no disrespect intended to your parenting, it is incomplete to say that the child decides, also the parent must guide. A pre-pubescent child lacks the hormones and experiences to understand the matters it will face as a sexually matured male or female. IMHO parents SHOULD educate in a way that is harmonious with the fact of sexual differences, but as I understand it, the ruling ideology says this belief is sexist/oppressive etc, so a hearty F.U. from me to the ruling ideology. >> I'm not willing to say that there are gender differences that are so drastic beyond society's imposition of it's own gender perceptions that a child needs to be guided in any particlular manner (regarding *gender*). It is my experience (and that of some I know) that when a child is taught how to be a good *human being* with no gender role attached, that they find their own definition of self. And when shown support and love and given proper discipline, a child will develop suitable self confidence for dealing with society's view of their "abnormal" traits. I think that all men and women have "feminine" and "masculine" traits within them. Some foster one side more than the other. As a parent, I can assist my children in gaining *control* of their traits such that they become more socially adept (eg teaching a child who cries at the drop of a hat how to prevent a melt down as well as teaching a child who is overly rough with other children how to prevent injuring another). But I'm not going to push my child to be more "girlie" because it will make her more socially acceptable or more available to men as a mate. There are many men who are very attracted to women who don't fit the classic gender roles. I was proposed to by 3 different men before I was 21. I think that the human creature is almost impossible to divide down to the individual according to gender traits. There are so many different elements that make up a person. Until science can (if ever) prove otherwise, I won't make the assumption that my daughters are to be a certain way simply due to their gender. I'd rather raise them to be self aware individuals - disciplined, responsible, strong, and compassionate. Meghan Gardner Guard Up, Inc. www.GuardUp.com "Always carry love in your heart and a knife in your pocket." me ------------------------------ From: "Jose & Elvira Moratalla" Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 00:02:05 -0500 Subject: eskrima: KunTao-Silat deThouars Seminar - Florida Kun Tao Family of Florida and Elite Martial Arts and Combat Sciences proudly presents a seminar on Kun Tao-Silat with BaPak Willem deThouars. BaPak Willem deThouars has over 50 years of experience in Chinese Kun Tao and Indonesian Silat. As the founder of Kun Tao-Silat deThouars, he is recognized around the world for his dynamic fighting and is considered by many to be one of the finest and most authentic teachers of Kun Tao-Silat. INSIDE KUNG FU Magazine describes him as "one of those rare members of a disappearing generation of old world practitioners". BLACK BELT Magazine describes him as "one of the few legitimate teachers of Pencak Silat in the United States ". Come and experience for yourself why BaPak Willem deThouars is respected and sought out by world renowned masters/teachers and International Martial Arts Organizations. BaPak deThouars will share with you his Universal principles and concepts, NOT JUST THEORY but PRACTICAL martial arts skill. Hear his life experiences as a Dutch Indonesian who learned real world survival skill 's during his years of hardship and torture during World War II and The Revolutionary War against the Dutch. " Uncle Bill", as he likes to be addressed, will share with you Chinese and Indonesian " tricks" which will allow you to make your own martial arts expressions functional. Date: Saturday, February 17 and Sunday February 18, 2001 Location: Elite Martial Arts Center,1730 Alt 19 S., Tarpon Springs, FL 34689 Registration: $120.00 (before February 2, 2001), $130.00 at the door. Please visit KunTao/Silat DeThouars website for more info. www.kuntaosilatdethouars.com Seminar includes an informal dinner Saturday night, demonstrations, and exhibitions. Other Masters will be in attendance. Instructors: Register five students and you attend free Contacts: Jose Moratalla (727) 786-7264 home / e-mail Moratalla@ij.net Andreas Mandelos (727) 944-3836 / School Miami: Steven Tarrago at (305) 725-7151 ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 22:35:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Greetings from Cebu City, PI Date: 26 Jan 01 Location: Cebu City, PI I recently had the honor and pleasure of meeting with GM Cacoy Canete. If any readers are familiar with other respected Arnis/Eskrima martial artists in Cebu please list here or hit me privately. I am not into the politics of which system over the other. More interested in meeting respective artists first for subsequent training possibilities. Thanks, Ken McDonough __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 00:31:21 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Interesting point A Howl etc: Tricky Dog wrote: > ::From: "Marc Denny" > ::Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2001 16:34:30 -0800 > :: > ::1) Concerning Men and Women's thought processes: Men think, then talk, > ::Women talk to discover what they think. > :: > Usually I would attribute that characterization to the > distinction between introverts and extroverts. Dialogue, > internal (introverts) or external (extroverts), is > essential to organizing our thoughts from our feelings, > perceptions and impressions. > > In the case of introverts, that emotional dialogue is > not visible - but one shouldn't assume it doesn't take > place. We either talk to ourselves or to others. > > So the process is essentially the same for both types (IMHO). My point was based upon a "Mars & Venus" perspective, and Loki's upon a psychological one. I think Loki's point also is quite valid and I will be looking to integrate it into my thinking. Off the top of my head I don't think that the two are contradictory. Woof, Crafty ------------------------------ From: "Dave & Heather Fulton" Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 06:25:57 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Important: Seminar Update My sincere apologies for such late notice! Due to circumstances beyond our control, the Seminar on full-contact fighting with mixed weapons that was to be taught tomorrow (Saturday, January 27th) will have to be rescheduled. I will advise everyone of the new date as soon as possible and in the mean time those who've already paid will have their choice of a full refund or they can apply the amount towards any future seminar. Please just let me know folks Thank you everyone! David Fulton Full Contact Martial Arts Association ------------------------------ From: kalkiusa@netscape.net (Mikal Keenan) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 09:32:45 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Accept on Faith As one holy man told me (and I continue to tell anyone who trains with me): "Don't believe me, test it." The major difference btwn superstition and science is that the intent of science is -knowing- ... similar to the way of the Gnostic in mysticism. The way of superstition is -belief- ... similar to the way of the Dogmatist in religion. The two are not mutually exclusive, moreso interactive and mutually supporting. Testing, which may lead to knowing, yields certainty ... which is very different from belief. Religion and science are very closely related in some ways ... there are belief-oriented activities in science just as much as there are certainty-based practices in some religions :-) Superstition, OTOH, links things together that may have no basis in reality, e.g., practices which grow from observance of a coincidence, leading to performance of some empty action that may manipulate a factor which the practitioner is unaware of. There is nothing superstitious about "chi" or "prana" ... no more so than a photons, electrons, or other subatomic particles. However, when a "scientist" speaks about such particles he/she can do so with a measure of certainty based on objective testing. So too, many practices which involve manipulation and use of things which go unseen (to most of us :-) are based on objective testing. With regards to internal training I like to tell people "The research has already been done." What we have in sciences based on "chi" manipulation (and related "stuff") is based on the level of understanding of whoever communicated their findings in the past. Sometimes it is obscure. Sometimes it is abstract, i.e., it was recorded in a way that made it inaccessible to the "uninitiated". Sometimes it's twisted by unproven belief(s). Later generations have to apply and test to verify and extend the knowledge ... no different from physical science (physics) and chemistry (Al-Kemi). It's al! l the same. Everything works that way, eh? One of our trials is to be able to hear different communications of human experience ... even if we know it all, which ain't likely the case. __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ From: Kendal Coats Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 06:36:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: kamagong dagas From: "Michael Barnes" Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:17:21 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Kamagond daggers? <<<<<<< Sorry to bother the digest with this but... Does anyone know where I can get Kamagong daggers that would be sufficient for lock and block drills. I've tried many web pages but the only wood I can find is bahi. Any suggestions....? Thank you... Michael Barnes >>>>>>>>>>> Michael, GM Ernesto Presas usually sells some very very nice kamagong dagas when he travels to the US. They are actually quite large (12") and come in both a drop point and a kris blade design. Since he is currently in PI, I'm not sure where to get them. I would email Alex France, ( Alex.France@kp.org ) who is also on this list, and ask him for info. Peace Kendal __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 7:39:26 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #48 *************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.