From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #52 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sat, 27 Jan 2001 Vol 08 : Num 052 In this issue: eskrima: Mime-Version: 1.0 eskrima: There is no spoon eskrima: From: content of this website eskrima: Earth Punch eskrima: Ling Chi eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #51 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #51 eskrima: Re: Chi eskrima: Fwd: Ken's Travel Log, Vol II. No. 5= Filipino Masters eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Luis Pellicer III Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 11:38:17 +0800 Subject: eskrima: Mime-Version: 1.0 >...And so, the poor, naive trusting Filipino voter trusted Joseph Estrada >alias Kumander Alibasbas alias Batang Tondo, etc. to perform in real life as >he did in reel life, only to discover he really was the "contrabida" >(villain) in the story. > I object, your honor. (With all the kulokoy and legal gobbledygoock I can muster) To his numerous mistresses with thier multi-million dollar mansions, he is the hero. ------------------------------ From: Scytale Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 20:01:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: There is no spoon Did you know that 90% of the people who quote statistics make them up? (just joking) Seriously, just because certain techniques are widely used doesn't make them effective. A look back at some of the widely used medical practices in the dark ages will show us that. The difference between chi/ki and scientific medical practices is that I can go to a nearby college medical center and they can show me chemically and experimentally why modern medicines work. Do they always work? No, but there are explainable reasons for that too. I'm not saying chi/ki doesn't exist, I'm just saying "show me in a reproduceable manner." One of my friends believes in ghosts. But I have yet to see him produce one reliably. Back on topic, how do you guys help your students make the transition from single to double stick? Or do you start out with double stick? I'm left handed but in my Kali class we used the right hand so now I'm playing catch-up with the left during my solo training. That leaves me looking for how best to transition to two sticks. Any ideas? Thanks and train well. Bryan Creel >From: "Johnaleen" >Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 19:25:27 -0500 >Subject: eskrima: RE: fem-nazi-Universal energy-chad > >now jester.... some facts for you... In 1995, 41% if the population of the >USA used one or more of the alternative healing methods to either complement >or substitute for traditional medical techniques. That hands-on touch >modalities are used by more that 30,000 nurses in hospitals each year, and >that the procedures are documented as legitimate medical techniques. That >there are teams of medical doctors and nurses combining medical skills WITH >hands-on and energy techniques in MOST major cities of the United States and >or most of the hands on touch modules are based on Universal >energy-chi-que-pruna-ki-reiki- and so on..... tell me how do you argue with >that..... again the balance we now have both the scientific and the bases of >Universal energy.....i have phone numbers of Medical doctors that use this >kind of healing for cancer patients with documented cases of people >cured..... do you want there findings? i can even send you there phone >numbers... > >heheh years of research kids....... > >Ms. J....... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Johnaleen" Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 23:05:18 -0500 Subject: eskrima: From: content of this website ******From: T2J2M2@cs.com Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 20:47:15 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #49 mindboxing It seems to me that we, on this digest, have lost sight the the original question, does the website mindboxing.com promote a legitimate martial arts website? I would respectfully request that we drop the question of whether chi exists, and start concentrating on the content of this website. In my opinion, the answer is no, it feeds on half-truths and fantasy martial arts practice.******** - ------------------------------ To: T2J2M2 I have received over 15 letters from members of this digest asking me to post more on the subject here...... its your closed mindset that causes people to find the concepts of what we do un-excitable and UE-chi-pruna-ki-que-reiki is a totally valid part of the art...and in turn the content of this digest... without the UE there is no art.... its the balance and the majority of the concepts that are based in all the arts.... its the yin and the yang... so how is it that it is not relevant to this digest? tell me do you just do your moves mechanically? do you ever feel like the wind when your training lost too it and feeling the love that it fills you with? the power when your doing your exercises ? without the UE or flow there is no art and that flow my friend is UE... again it maybe that you feel nothing when you do what ever it is you do with your shehshs i cant even call it a Martial Art based on your comments.... Ms J. Castro CEO/F.A.T.E. Facilitating Awareness Through Empowerment 1-888-526-4626 FATE@f-a-t-e.org www.f-a-t-e.org ------------------------------ From: kalkiusa@netscape.net (Mikal Keenan) Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 23:41:41 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Earth Punch > Qi may provide the practitioner with the ability > to conceal their own moves while anticipating > those of your opponent, possibly to the point of > psychically disabling them. Is this a quote from a book, a communication of experience, or wishful thinking/religion/beleif? No offense intended ... I've been around the block a few times and on one excursion ran into a self-proclaimed Tai Chi "master" who claimed that when he punched the power of the entire earth was behind his punch. He also made claims to exactly what is described in the text that I included above: he would know what I was going to do next, cloud my mind and hit me at will, blah-blah-blah. We were both looking foor a training partner at the time (he was actually looking for somebody to punch around :-) Went to work with him -once- ... openminded, like maybe I can learn sumthin from this guy. He tagged me a couple of times ... thumped me with a little more force than a friendly "let's see how you work" if you know what I mean. So, umble me settled in and slammed my shin into his gut. Guy doubled over, then with a look of shock on his face asked me: What are you USING!!??!!" M! y umble response: "Foot." :-) Purely intellectual comments and belief is no match for ability. In the short run, Grand Tuhon Gaje's commentary hits the mark if you ask me. Sorta like Buddha chiding one of his disciples for showing his "powers". It was forbidden by Buddha, so when other disciples reported that the impatient disciple had walked across a river to get to where Buddha was at the time Buddha asked him (loosely): "How did you get here? Had to cross the river right?" The disciple replied "Yes." Buddah continued: "How did you get across the river?" Disciple: "I walked." Buddha: "How long did it take you to cultivate this ability?" Disciple: [let's just say that the disciple said "5 years"]. Buddha: "How much does it cost to take the ferry across that river?" Disciple: [let's just say that the disciple said "5 cents"]. Buddha: "You mean to tell me that you spent 5 years of your life trainiing to do something that it only costs 5 cents to accomplish!!??!!" Be well, Mik __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ From: kalkiusa@netscape.net (Mikal Keenan) Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 00:03:19 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Ling Chi Ling Chi is chi manifestation/manipulation/use with regards to things supernatural. Health chi kung cultivates superior health (normal). Both Health chi kung and Martial chi kung can promote supernormal. Healing chi kung is related to Ling Chi. Some of these things are latent in every creature and in every human, expressed moreso through some than others. Ling chi as "supernatural" simply makes use of the term to connote the awareness that it is beyond our everyday experience of the dynamics of nature. Underlying all of its responsibility. The only danger is if you play with any of it, supernatural or not, hence the timeless warnings and advice re: training ethics/morality, composure, etc. Ain't nuthin new. Keep it simple. I'm nobody special ... no longer teach publicly but the couple of flyers that are up to let people know that I'm still around include a big bold line that reads "Morality First". All classes begin and end with a sign of respect ... respect for self and respect for the self in others. Other than that it's all business: Whatever is OK for A to do to B is OK for any C (including B) to do to A. I'd be careful listening to someone who claims to -know- what it's all about. As far as I'm concerned I'd tell you in a flash that I don't know a danged thing! We have working methods, subject to optimization, revision, and simplification for the sake of validity and productivity (efficient/effective). Always beginning, no end. Oops, I said no mo'chi from me! Be well, Mik __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ From: Powrscrol@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 00:05:15 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #51 In a message dated 1/26/01 7:17:55 PM Pacific Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I would like to compare notes with those on the digest experienced in the subject on the relationship of what is called "chi" .... the Native American tracking expert Tom Brown wrote that he believed that strength of a person's spirit was strongly related to the strength of their "wind" or endurance and so did running exercises to build up his spirit. "CHI" AND BREATHING: "Chi" is often translated as "inner strength" or "spiritual power" but the exercises to develop it are often exercises that develop either control of your breathing, good balance through leg strength or good posture. I'm told that the Chinese character for Chi could originally be translated as either "breath" or "wind" or "spirit". Most ancient languages have examples of this multiple translation of a single word. In Hebrew "Rhuach" can be translated as breath or wind or spirit. It is the Rhuach of Life that God breathed into Adam. In Greek it is Pneuma (from which we get words like pneumonia and pneumatic) also originally used for breath or wind. In Latin it is "Anima" (that which animates) also originally breath or wind or spirit. In Hawaiian the "Ha" in "Aloha" is also breath, wind ,or spirit. >> Good post, Bill. My 1st reaction is that when one mentions "spirit", he must define the term, as it has different meanings with different people & cultures. It can be very ambiguous. And again, there are different modes of chi. In my book, I base the concept of chi on Biblical Scripture, and open it up from there. Whether one is Christian or not, it still offers good food for thought, because there's a very good analysis. It reveals all the modes, if you know what to look for. God breathing the breath of life into Adam can be interpreted in several ways. But, physical breath is not the same as spirit -- although they are connected. While man resides inside his human body, he needs both. Take either away and he expires. Take the breath away, and the spirit leaves; take the spirit away, and the breath ceases. But once the spirit leaves the body, although the body dies, the spirit doesn't need physical breath to continue to exist. See what I mean? When God breathed the breath of life into Adam, He gave Adam both physical breath AND soul/spirit simultaneously. Steve W. Empty Hands Can Do http://www.powrscrol.com/ ------------------------------ From: Chad Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 02:42:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #51 >>I've been teaching introductory seminars for years now with very >>positive results. I believe that you are one of the good ones than. I also think that a person can learn from a seminar. I also think that a man can teach a women's self defense seminar. What better than to have a man attacking the women? I do not think alot of seminars are done in the right manner, though. I'm not thouroghly familiar with your program, but I would like to see seminars based on techniques and how to train them. I have only watched two live ones and some womens Karate class, and I saw only techniques, and no TRAINING support. You can teach someone a technique and they may or may bot remember it. But if you show them a technique and have them train it, then they should have a higher percentage success rate. Of course I feel this way about all of my training. Another thing that I would think, is that self defense for a woman may differ for a man because a man will most times go up-and-up or rush and attack to violently hurt another man, but most men will not be doing this to a female. Most attacks would be grabs, pushes, and the such. I know hitting happens as well, but I'm speaking of majority of attack types. ===== Chad chad@fullcontacthi.com Full Contact Stickfighting Hawaii http://www.fullcontacthi.com http://www.egroups.com/group/stickfighting __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Jesse Greenawalt" Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 06:39:11 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Re: Chi I realize that Chi is only very tangentially related to FMA, but one more post here, and I leave off. I mean no disrespect toward those who believe unconditionally (or conditionally for that matter), or those who don't wish to read this stuff. > From: "Johnaleen" > now jester.... some facts for you... In 1995, 41% if the population of the > USA used one or more of the alternative healing methods to either complement > or substitute for traditional medical techniques. That hands-on touch > modalities are used by more that 30,000 nurses in hospitals each year, and > that the procedures are documented as legitimate medical techniques. That > there are teams of medical doctors and nurses combining medical skills WITH > hands-on and energy techniques in MOST major cities of the United States and > or most of the hands on touch modules are based on Universal > energy-chi-que-pruna-ki-reiki- and so on..... tell me how do you argue with > that..... again the balance we now have both the scientific and the bases of > Universal energy.....i have phone numbers of Medical doctors that use this > kind of healing for cancer patients with documented cases of people > cured..... do you want there findings? i can even send you there phone I have no argument against that. Popularity is no indicator of truth. Diet books & pills are best sellers, and the most popular chiropractor in town sells the "subluxation theory" that is now disowned even by most of his own kind (as well as "preventative adjustments" for kids! ACH!). People have also died replacing medical techniques with alternative ones (not from application of the alternative, but from the lack of the traditional - say, an unchecked operable tumor...), so one must be careful. I am a believer in the healing power of touch. I just don't buy the attribution to "Chi". Touch is great psychologically, however antsy our society (USA) gets about it. And there are therapeutic effects on nerves, muscles, etc. that are easily shown & studied. I just don't put that in the "Chi" basket. That someone is a master at applying these techniques doesn't necessarily mean he understands the source of their power. I guess another hangup is the fact that the same force is used to explain these subtle effects as well as the more paranormal abilities that have been debunked. I realize that's my own issue. But where much of the healing aspects MAY or MAY NOT really be "chi", even though they work, some of these paranormal things would be a great example to me of "THIS is chi, and it works", since there would be no other explanation currently. Unfortunately, none of those have been proven. jester ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 05:18:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Fwd: Ken's Travel Log, Vol II. No. 5= Filipino Masters The following is passed along. It reflects a training session I had with two Arnis/Eskrima Masters today, 27 Jan 01. Along the rooftops, Cebu City, PI. McD... - --- Ken McDonough wrote: > Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 05:07:01 -0800 (PST) > > Date: 27 Jan 02 > Time: 9:24 pm > > Location: Cebu City, PI > > Comments: While the great Filipino Martial Artists were working out, my > wife called out to me, "The workers have stopped working and are watching." > > I gazed across the sub-division being built, the hard laborers sweating in > the heat. They had all stopped working. They were all lined up along the > roofs of the various housing developments. They were watching us practice. > They were watching the Filipino Masters pass along their art. > > This was a special moment. An awesome moment. This is what the martial > arts is all about. > > Ken McD... > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices. > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 8:13:57 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #52 *************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.