From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #53 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sat, 27 Jan 2001 Vol 08 : Num 053 In this issue: eskrima: Who me? eskrima: Use of UE and the stats eskrima: Re: My last post on Chi (kinda long) eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #52 eskrima: Saber grip eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 8:17:16 PST Subject: eskrima: Who me? > Given the subtlety of this form of health/healing (how the hell can he > tell when I have the farts from taking my pulse?!?) Ummmmm, maybe his nose and ears were working just fine... :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Johnaleen" Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 15:32:46 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Use of UE and the stats Just a note here kids..... I do not use stats like that unless i have gotten them on my own... both by the government and health agency's here locally and nationally.... also by my personal experiences and healing with UE... i will cut them down in a chunk like that because the data is huge that i have been collecting... the point is the information is there for you to do with as you like individually..... its there as options in training and healing ... you look at it and try and decide what is done and best suited for you each individually... dose not mean its right for each or that the path will lead them where it is expected too... keeping our minds open is important as much as the stats are for me.. very important how do you think FATE org is getting grants to pay for things like this that will be offered as Options to Victims in healing? its because i have had to be sure to cover all the different choices and perspectives from both sides of the community's... making sure that the states came from the government and so on and that there are bases for healing and training modules this way already instituted in government operations at different time and places... this is the one real reason that it even gives most of it any kind of validation.. validation is just a word that gives you reason to explore something and learn... there facts that are gathered for each too look at individually..... all there for you as options.... for people to have when they are looking.... " Johnaleen.... "I find the great thing in this world is not so much where we stand as in what direction we are moving." F.A.T.E. Facilitating Awareness Through Empowerment 1-888-526-4626 FATE@f-a-t-e.org www.f-a-t-e.org ------------------------------ From: Powrscrol@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 16:59:44 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: My last post on Chi (kinda long) This is my last post on the subject. I left a list a few months ago because of a stupid flamewar over chi. Here are some observations: On the Kung Fu list, chi's existence is a given. Why? Because many people work with it. On the Judo list, very few believe it exists. Why? Because hardly anyone works with it (or they don't realize they do). This is understandable when you consider the art sources. Kung Fu has a long history of chi practice, while the sport of Judo has none. If you go back to Judo's mother art, Jujitsu (a combat art), however, you find a lot of ki work in certain styles. When you give something a title, many times you're inferring what it isn't, rather than what it is. Why? Because titles usually infer limited definitions. On the other hand, "chi" (ki, qi, prana, etc.) has also become a collective, generic term for anything regarding energy which we don't fully understand. This is just as bad. generalization vs. limited definition. Whenever I mention "chi", people invariably read in their own suppositions, and put words into my mouth. They jump to a lot of conclusions that have nothing at all to do with my position. They insist on doing that, even though they're not open-minded enough to read my material to see what I'm actually saying. Some people are very insecure, and feel threatened when their belief systems (whether or not they're based on anything tangible) are threatened. Some are affraid to admit that someone may know a little more about a given topic than they do. Some are stuck in propaganda vehicles. I prefer applying the science of logic to research & experience, and can't understand why so many people resist this process; closed-mindedness can be just as bad as superstition. But, what really offends me is people making judgements about my work without even having read it. If I didn't think I had something to offer, I wouldn't put it out there. I thought, "Certain things should be said about it; but, nobody's doing it; so, I will. Maybe I can offer some demystification & clarity". Now, someone criticizing after reading -- that's different; I welcome that. That's what honest, intelligent discussions are all about -- on an email list, or anywhere else. But, prejudice is not constructive -- in any arena. Chi is energy -- pure & simple. When you say, "That's not chi", to which MODE of chi are you referring? EVERYTHING is energy; therefore, EVERYTHING is chi. Be specific. Regarding the supernatural aspect, when you talk about that area, you're talking about the spiritual realm. Not all spiritual energies are positive; some are negative; and, some are deceptive. Unless you're able to discern the energy, you're taking a BIG chance by working with it. Again, speaking from experience. Miracles do exist; but, so does magic. Your belief or non-belief in something doesn't alter its existence -- it only affects your awareness & understanding of it. When someone speaks from relative experience, and another speaks from a lack of, which has more credence? You talk about proving &/or experiencing chi. Alright, I've said a couple times that my book contains exercises (Acutration) for instant hand chi activation/projection. Prove it for yourself. Any takers? This deals with a specific chi mode. It's not mystical; it's natural & very explainable. I call the technique a "trick" because it's so simple & easy. But, I haven't run into anyone outside my school who knows about it (unless they've read my book). Acutration concerns "peripheral" chiflow (as opposed to "central"). The peripheral flows through the limbs & extremities; the hands are extremely easy to activate, if you know how. The "central" purportedly flows from the tantien -- but now, you're getting into metaphysics, etc. Whether or not the central current exists, what it is, etc., makes no difference, if you want to experience the peripheral and feel its current. Many people practice chi kung (for central flow) for years and experience nothing; the peripheral can be felt by anyone the 1st day. This used to be "inner circle" material in my school; I decided to put it out for health/performance purposes (among other reasons). But, I don't enjoy "throwing pearls to swine", either. Not calling anyone names -- just saying that if an audience isn't receptive, they don't deserve the info. Comprende? This stuff really is simpler than most people think. Nobody knows everything (and, I never claimed to); but, to assume that certain info. is faulty without 1st investigating it -- well, to me, that represents a bad attitude. After all, a mystery is only a mystery until it's revealed. There are always going to be people who receive knowledge before others. Does that mean the knowledge is false, or the 1st people are charlatans? Sometimes, but not always. Your mind is like a parachute; it doesn't work unless it's open -- trite, but true. Walk, then talk about it. Nuff said. Steve W. Empty Hands Can Do http://www.powrscrol.com/ ------------------------------ From: GHSoto@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 18:59:19 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #52 I am sure we are all saturated with the subject but I couldn't help myself. Qi/Chi/Ki/Prana is an essential part of some of the oldest cultures and civilizations. Yet the self centered important center of the universe person that I am feels self righteous enough to say if you can't show me and prove it scientifically then it ain't so. Thousands of years of research, development, etc., don't mean a thing because it can't be "proven in the western world scientific model" which in itself is flawed. But if you can't prove it to me, it ain't so. Hey I can't see love, oh sure I can see it manifestations and I certainly can feel it..........but it sure is out there and in here. But if someone never felt love then you can bet that for them it is just a hoax. Just some charlatans selling quacky mushy stuff. Many very enlightened and brilliant people say that what is seen is a very small part of what is. Two people go see a Qi demonstration. One is open and available, one isn't. So what do we get, one person who has an experience of feeling Qi and one doesn't. What does that "prove"? Probably something like how important one's mind and believe system is to one's experience. I don't know how many people remember the great Japanese film "Roshomon?" Basically it dealt with a murder witnessed by maybe six or eight people. The story then unfolds as each person has a different account of the murder and murderer. Everybody saw the same thing but each perceived it differently based on who they were...........our life experiences, parents, family, culture, education, religion or not, ethnicity, etc., all feed in to shape how we experience life and it's manifestations. But if your experience tells you one thing and mine tells me something different from God Bless both of us. That is what makes life so interesting, just don't tell me my experience is invalid cause it doesn't fit your "scientific model" of what makes something real. I'd like to finish sharing a short prose from Sogyal Rinpoche's "Glimpse after Glimpse": "Doubts demand from us a real skillfulness in dealing with them, and I notice how few people have any idea how to pursue doubts or to use them. It seems ironic that in a civilization that so worships the power of deflation and doubt, hardly anyone has the courage to deflate the claims of doubt itself---to do as one Hindu master said: turn the dogs of doubt on doubt itself, to unmask cynicism, and to to uncover what fear, despair, hopelessness, and tired conditioning it springs from. Then doubt would no oonger be an obstacle, but a door to realization, and whenever doubt appeared in the mind, a seeker would welcome it as a means of going deeper into the truth." Now this doesn't mean we shouldn't question things. It means we need to look behind our thoughts and impulses as well. May we all grow in tolerance and acceptance of each other. Soto ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:40:22 PST Subject: eskrima: Saber grip In an attempt to get off this ki thread (give me the ole Double L) and onto something more FMA related... There is an interesting column by the infamous Bob Kasper in the March 2001 issue of Tactical Knives magazine. The column describes "... why the saber grip is a flawed approach to executing snap cuts and thrusts in knife combat." In it he describes why, as we know, the saber grip gives one a suboptimal grip on the knife (or the stick). Pressure against the outside of the blade or stick can easily cause a loss of grip integrity. Yet in Hock Hochheim's Knife Fighting Encylcopedia he seems to favor this grip, even going so far as to term it the Filipino Grip. Now, it seems to me (and Kasper) that the Saber Grip is not really all that great for those up-n-close interpersonal encounters... Comments? Also, in the same issue is an article on what is now my favorite opening mechanism for pocket folders, the semi-automatic or assisted opening. Both my liner locking Kershaw "Ken Onion" Whirlwind and my Timberline with VDL (Vallotton Discovery Lock) are semi-autos, i.e. not switch-blades, but close. The assisted opening of the Timberline is better/different in that it has a coil tension spring that pulls the blade completely open once you get it started via the thumb stub. On Onion's mechanism a spring kicks the blade for just a short bit counting on inertia to open the blade the remainder of the way. I like and can recommend either one, but I really like the functionality of the Timberline VDL, especially as a backup folder. The double thumb stud makes it easy to open with either the left or right hand and the strong assisted opening mechanism comes in handy when use of the weak (or an injured) hand is required. Tactical Knives noted "The VDL is a sweet knife that is good looking, extremely clever in design, and functions flawlessly. It has a suggested retail price of $89.95, which is a bargain. I firmly believe that this is the best folding knife design to surface in the last year". Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 17:48:37 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #53 *************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.