From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #54 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sun, 28 Jan 2001 Vol 08 : Num 054 In this issue: eskrima: Re. Saber grip eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #53 eskrima: The Saber Grip Question eskrima: FMA? eskrima: subnormal :-) eskrima: Re: Chi eskrima: Finally, no mo chi from me eskrima: Re: Saber Grip Re: eskrima: FMA? eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rudolf@kimbel.net Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 03:26:40 +0100 Subject: eskrima: Re. Saber grip Ray wrote: >In it he describes why, as we know, the saber grip gives one a suboptimal >grip on the knife (or the stick). Pressure against the outside of the blade >or stick can easily cause a loss of grip integrity. >Yet in Hock Hochheim's Knife Fighting Encylcopedia he seems to favor this >grip, even going so far as to term it the Filipino Grip. Now, it seems to >me (and Kasper) that the Saber Grip is not really all that great for those >up-n-close interpersonal encounters... Comments? I don't have any Hochheim books, but Janich in "Knife Fighting, A Practical Course", Paladin 1993 claims his "Filipino Grip" to be different and superior to the sabre grip. I don't expect any FMA people hold their stick in either grip. I would hold a knife in exactly the same way I hold the stick, in hammer grip. All this sabre and "Filipino" grip stuff only looks like brand new snake oil. You can only train one thing, and having a good grip of your weapon should be part of it. As to loosing your knife in a knife duell, why not also consider loosing your blood and other important aspects of your anatomy :( Rudolf. ------------------------------ From: Powrscrol@aol.com Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 22:40:30 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #53 In a message dated 1/27/01 5:25:13 PM Pacific Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I am sure we are all saturated with the subject but I couldn't help myself. >> Glad you couldn't; it was a great post! Hey, I didn't add anything new; so, I wasn't lying when I said I'd posted my last! (8^>) Steve W. Empty Hands Can Do http://www.powrscrol.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Scott Kinney" Date: Sun, 28 Jan 01 09:56:20 +0000 Subject: eskrima: The Saber Grip Question Ray, I'll have to go read Bob Kasper's column to see what he's saying, but I think you're misreading Hock's chapter on grips. First of all, in the chapter itself, and in just about every seminar I've ever had with him, Hock's attitude is that each grip is a tool for a particular job with its own particular strengths and weaknesses. To that end, he often stresses practice with various grips and switching grips. Second, the "Filipino" grip is shown as one of four different approaches to the saber grip, not as the umbrella term for the saber. In his discussion of the 'thumb on top' (Filipino) saber grip Hock mentions the vulnerability of that grip to various kinds of lateral impacts and disarms. At the same time, he points out that the 'thumb wrapped around' (hammer) saber grip solves those problems, but limits the range of motion in the wrist and forearm. Fortunately, it's easy to swtich (ie adjust the position of your thumb) between these two approaches. Personally, when knife sparring, I find myself adjusting my grip between the two based on the range I'm in and the amount of power I want to generate. The hammer grip does allow for more power, while the Filipino grip allows for more speed and freedom of movement IMHO. Well, as you said --- Comments?    - -------------------------------------------------- Scott Kinney Project Manager sakinney@ix.netcom.com - -------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ From: kalkiusa@netscape.net (Mikal Keenan) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 11:12:12 -0500 Subject: eskrima: FMA? We're getting way out here ... but just for the heck of it, the Greek "pneuma" is related the "Num" of the Kung peoples of Africa. Yah, yah, c'mon ... even the Russians have acknowledged that their ancestors were African, i.e., the human history in Russia begins with Africans (reported last year). The Greeks knew Ethiopia ... and Subsaharan Africa was regularly visited by people who studied there (Caravanserai). Don't believe me, check it out for yourself. A tangent perhaps, but Nubia had script-writing (like modern languages) while Egypt was drawing pictographs (heiroglyphics). They were not the first organized nations on the continent. There were megastates around before either existed, large cities recently found by a German researcher who says he is "looking for [him]self, lloking for man." According to him lore ancient cities will be found beneath what he has discovered already related to Nubia ... which is older than anything else found so far. So this stuff has ! been around for awhile :-) Oh yeah, geologically speaking it's accepted that India used to be part of Africa. It broke off and collided with Asia, hence the Himalayas. Links, connections, aiya ... undecipherable. The Kung train people from youth to use Num for healing. Characteristic expression of Num is intense heat. "Num" is pronounced like "Pneum" of pneumatic. I ain't even gonna touch the topic of "spirit" :-) Be careful what you mix ... basic sanity (fundamental to what the historical Buddha taught) may be more valuable than making sparks shoot out your fingers or sumthin :-) Chasing after tricks and "neat stuff" ain't necessarily "where it's at." Remember Mickey in Fantasia (Sorcerer's Apprentice). Old sailor type once told me: "Get your lessons from the horse's mouth, not from his rear end." In other words, seek out clear sources, clear authorities, instead of rehashed, possibly confused/distorted/"reinvented" stuff. __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ From: kalkiusa@netscape.net (Mikal Keenan) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 11:23:39 -0500 Subject: eskrima: subnormal :-) > most people are subnormal :-) Whoa, most people probably wouldn't wanna hear that! Maybe we should interpret this as meaning "below average" eh? We can probably assume that the writer was thinking in terms of the generally accepted characterizations of things as (use level of fitness as an example) Poor, Below Average, Average, Above Average, or Superior. Most people, statistically speaking are by definition -average-. When we measure any phenomena in the universe, they tend to fall into ranges like this. Approximately (approxiamately!) 1/3 form the average range, based on standard deviations around the actual average (or "norm"). The other 2/3 will be either above or below average. This includes below and above average within the 2nd standard deviations, poor and superior within the 3rd. __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ From: szorn@webtv.net (S ZORN) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 11:39:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: eskrima: Re: Chi For anyone interested in chi, prana, mana, ki, etc. I would recommend contacting the infamous John (the speedman) La Tourrette. As him about his "Kahuna Warrior Mindsucking Secrets" video series. The first three videos of the series shows the viewer how to manipulate the energy field (chi) of an attacker / opponent. John describes how to do it and how to test to see if it actually works or not. You can then take this info and try it on your friends, family etc to see for yourselves that it actually works. I know that a few peple out there believe that John is a fraud but I can say from experience with this material that it's definately for real. I actually used these techniques on a friend and like most of you he still refused to believe it even after he felt it. Steve ------------------------------ From: kalkiusa@netscape.net (Mikal Keenan) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 11:56:25 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Finally, no mo chi from me > Many people practice chi kung (for central flow) for years > and experience nothing; the peripheral can be felt by anyone > the 1st day. - -Feeling- peripheral effects of these practices can be most beneficial as milestones, signs that what we are working with is real. It can also be a distraction because people get hung up on feeling something and like some get "chi silly" ... too busy chasing experience and not spending enough time cultivating the things that require more patience and deeper investment in training things like relaxation, composure, concentration, reasoning (don't forget the morality thang). Practicing something without feeling anything does not mean that nothing is happening. Deeper things may be happening which one may only realize -later-. In my own humble and limited experience, the most powerful expression was something that I did not feel. My witness felt "something like sticking your hand in a wall socket" ... I felt -absolutley nothing-. OTOH, I cannot describe what I have felt in the main central channel ... no words suffice, not lightning, electricity, no words suffice. That was! 25 years ago. That's all I'm gonna say about it. Now I really gotta shuddup!!!:-) I know teachers who turn their back on some communities of practitioners because they get silly with the chi thing ... they play. They become popular. A local of this type has students who went in to challenge some "no chi" types who think that Chinese and Filipino MAs are "soft". The chi fiends got slammed. They've been hyped on chi, etc., and have spent no time in learning how to fight. They can't "walk". Now the locals think they're invincible :-) It's not what we can feel that's most important. Getting stuck on sensation we can miss the opportunities to cultivate other accomplishments. Reminds me of someone who told me that they saw the color purple while meditating one day. I said: "So what?" After that experience this person always wanted to see purple, thinking that it was the most important thing. Then when they didn't have that visual experience they were disappointed, their practices faltered. My advice was to simply practice, forget about the experience and continue. The practice/training is not about experiences. Experiences become distractions. Distractions can cause diversion from goals which may go unrealized. People will often become infatuated with/distracted by novel experiences. When the novelty wears off they need a new fix. This can be problematic. OTOH, the novel experience can be taken as inspiration for continuing ... but we have to put down the novel in order to progress/evolve beyond! it. These are not criticisms of anyone ... just comments in passing. So don'nobodeh go gittin' defensive nah, what you know is what you know. What others know is what they know. ... and so it goes ... __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ From: szorn@webtv.net (S ZORN) Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 12:29:10 -0500 (EST) Subject: eskrima: Re: Saber Grip Being a student of W. Hock Hochheim I can say with little doubt that he doesn't favor one grip over another. He simply wants to fill the gap left by alot of instructors out there who make claims that one grip is superior to all others. Hock believes that we should be complete fighters and the saber grip ads to this completeness. Hock will tell his students that there isn't one superior technique, or grip in this case but he teaches the complete story and tells the student to make the choice as to whether or not the technique or grip will work for them. Having trained with both grips I can say that both grips have advantages and disadvantages. The key is to find when and where these grips have their place and then use them accordingly. Steve ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 11:25:36 PST Subject: Re: eskrima: FMA? > We're getting way out here ... but just for the heck of it, the Greek > "pneuma" is related the "Num" of the Kung peoples of Africa. Yah, yah, > c'mon ... even the Russians have acknowledged that their ancestors were > African, i.e., the human history in Russia begins with Africans As you say, this is in no way FMA related, but the Russ descend from the Vikings. Yes? I guess you're saying humankind started in Africa. Perhaps, perhaps not. I suspect that is one of those pre-history things we will never be able to know for sure, like where did civilization begin. Mostly likely the Near East, but given it is pre-history I suspect we'll never know. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to travel back in time? I've always thought if I could go back I would go back to just prior to the burning of the great library at Alexandria to try and stop that horrible destruction or to move the volumes elsewhere, somehow... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 11:32:46 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #54 *************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.