From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #59 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Tues, 30 Jan 2001 Vol 08 : Num 059 In this issue: eskrima: Grips, kid tips, and Vikings, Tuhon Bill eskrima: reading eskrima: Heart and electricity eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #58 eskrima: Grips eskrima: Fichigan and Origins of Eskrima ;-) eskrima: Up the street from where I live eskrima: Back from Sweden... eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rocpas@ameritech.net Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:25:18 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Grips, kid tips, and Vikings, Tuhon Bill The knife grip is one of those little things in MA that seems all too often to be broken down to far. I have always thought of a grip as something similar to a Karate Stance, in that they are transitional, you never know what stance/grip you'll be using when its time to Roll. I would have to say that on this one I agree with Animal, trust me I have been here you'll be damn lucky if you can keep from wetting yourself in a knife fight. The problem is most people who think they have been in a knife fight really haven't. Having a knife pulled on you say in a robbery or by a punk trying to intimidate you is far from being in a knife fight!! Don't ever think that your knife disarms will work in real time real fighting, especially the ones that teach grabbing, your opponents wrist, or striking his knife hand in a particular spot depending on his grip. It just doesn't work. I have a little knife called Tommy " Tommy the Truth Teller" He's a cute little guy about 7 in. of rattan with about .25 in. of very sharp and pointed steel sticking out the end. Not enough to penetrate any thing vital, except maybe the jugular or eye or something. But for the most part just enough to hurt you, I use it for those that need a reality check on their so called knife defense techniques, its a real eye opener!! Granted knife defenses need to be worked, but only ever used as a last, last resort. On Marc's, ramblings on Child guidance, Once again, I have to admit I agree with you bud. As a father of a 2.5 year old baby girl and a soon to be father of a baby boy, its my responsibility to help guide them through life, and teach them what's right and what's wrong. This I believe is the biggest problem in America today, their is no right or wrong any more just shades of gray. And the fact is their are certain things that are right and will always be and certain things that are wrong and will always be, this goes for things that are natural and un-natural as well. Parenting is the ultimate test of yin and yang. I want my daughter to be strong minded, well directed and have the ability to handle her self as best as possible. I want her to know that her ability to deal with the opposite gender in a physical confrontation is going to rely more on her wits than her physical traits. ( that is god willing that she grows up to be like her mother, a petite, cutie, and not a member of the old East German women's olympic team, DOAH!!!) I also hope that by proper guidance from us she will as Marc so gracefully put it, be able to stay clear of the bums and land a man that wants to be her partner and equal along with her protector from the scum of the earth, when daddy may no longer be able to do so. Feminine yet strong, Yin yet Yang. As a father I have adapted in the past 3 years to playing doll house with my daughter ( a big switch for me, my ideal of a doll house use to be a hooter bar ) anyways we have father and daughter days and do other little girl things together when mama's not available . Don't get me wrong Marc, you and I won't be picking out curtains in the near future ;-) its just part of my being a well rounded father and adapting to her needs, just as my wife will teach my son how to toss a baseball when I am not available. I totally agree that guiding does not mean shoving things down your kids throat. And while yes it is true that we are all human beings, there is a differance in some ares between men and women, I know the feme-nazis don't like to here that, and of course from looking at some of them its hard to beleave, but nonetheless thats what nature gave us and that's what we have to deal with. You can't undo in 20 or 30 years what has take'n nature hundreds of thousands of years to develope, god knows some groups are trying, but it just will never work. And, its not the schools job, the governments, societies, or anyone else's job to guide our children though life its ours the parents. By the way Dana ( my daughter ) has the first CDM flow drill down 3 kicks and half of a Karate form, this is way cooler than I thought it would be!! And the thing on the T.V bit, man Marc you hit that right on the head. On the viking thing, on my many travels to Sweden I got the impression that the Vikings kind of, Well screwed them selves out of existence. They would quite often absorb members of a conquered village into their own thus mating and altering their genetic traits, after a while you conquer so many people you mate yourself out of existence. Kind of the Warren Battie, quote from Bullworth, lets just all F*^&^* each other till we're all one color. And being of Ukrainian and Russian heritage, I have quite often heard that we may have a Viking blood line. But have never seen anything documented if anyone has any literature I would be deeply grateful for your info. Congradulations Tuhon (Big Daddy) Bill!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Rocky Founder of Cuentada De Mano Chief Instructor Anciong Bacon's Original Balintawak ------------------------------ From: "mcferreng001" Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 18:22:12 -1000 Subject: eskrima: reading Sorry to say I haven't even got threw the last 6 issues of the ED .. what has happened? you all are Killen me.. I will try to stomach my way threw and a respond ( not that anyone cares).. and btw pls. don't talk about TEAMS at all unless you are a member, your just passing bad info. Greg ( Flame at will) off line PS I had a friend who knew a guy who had a PH.D who knew a guy that was abducted by aliens, who met a guy in China, who saw a guy who had Chi.. and can prove it!!!!, but not in the ring :( True storie ------------------------------ From: "Michael Koblic" Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 20:50:44 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Heart and electricity "Why does electric shock work to bring someone back to life? (start their heart beating again)." Actually, it stops it. The heart starts up on its own (with a little bit of luck). That's why I hate to see them shock flatliners on TV (Medicine on TV = as bad as MA on TV). Mike Koblic, Quesnel BC ------------------------------ From: Kendal Coats Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 06:35:04 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #58 Dear Mr Terry, Please excuse Kendal from talking about escrima today, he has a learnind disorder that requires him to pump his ego at least twice a day. Signed Kendal's Mother Ok all homage to Arnold Horshach aside, one last thought. Many out there are mistaken when we think that there is some origional thought going on here. Fact is Man likes to debate, and has done so for eons. We here are only able to pull our opinions from eadh of our knowledge base. The subject of human evolution, creation, has been debated for over a cuntury and even predates Darwin. Fact is that we just dont know. The supercontinent all from Africa is a good one but we would have to look at geologic movement in quite different ways to explain present day differences in man. My particular problem with these theories is that they do not take into account any of the mythology of Native Peoples on the American Continent and others. I'm not saying that any theory has more creedance than another but that there are many posibilities to account for the varied presenance of humas across this world. We dont all have to share the same ancestor, and I suspect that there is some fact in all the theories. As for me, I like many theories but try to integrate Spirit into them, and I suspect that the answer lies somewhere in the middle. Peace __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: kalkiusa@netscape.net (Mikal Keenan) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:00:39 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Grips My first exposure to stick fighting was Chinese Short Staff. The grip used to bug me, extending the thumb along the stick ... seemed to me a quick way to lose a thumb. Then there are the grip variations which emphasize never releasing the index finger, or never releasing the "pinky" finger, and/or always leaving the index finger out of the gripping action as in some Indian weapon methods (Japanese and Korean too I think). Comments? > But Eskrima was first created in Africa, didn't you know... :) No jive man??? Wow!!!:-) Ray, thanks for your tolerance. Be well, Mik __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ From: kalkiusa@netscape.net (Mikal Keenan) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:15:26 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Fichigan and Origins of Eskrima ;-) 'ey Ray, should we include Huck Fayama, Kuck Fanagawa, and/or Juck Fapan too?:-) That UM work on human evolution involved a Japanese/Korean connection too, i.e., . . . Lee, Sang-Hee, Department of Biosystems Science, Graduate University for Advanced Studies, Hayama, Kanagawa, Japan Eskrima invented in Africa? Dim Sum invented in Italy maybe! No, ravioli was invented in China!:-) Seriously though, in absence of cooperation conflict is inevitable. In the presence of numbers and repeated experiences there is a need for organization. Organized conflict results in refinement of methods to promote success. Orderly approaches to conflict have probably existed as long as orderly groupings of humans have existed and competed for resources no matter where they were ... and used whatever tools were at hand. Saw a documentary once re: African dueling using a sharp thumb-weapon ... the fight was all witik (bashed some heads) ... winners were allowed to mate with their choice of the girls that night (the girls all danced around them so that they could choose). Not long ago I posted some info from a Capoeira site citing the Bantu fighting/warring methods as Capoeira's origins. Did they use sticks, spears, bows/arrows, etc.? Probably. Did they call it "Eskrim! a"? Probably not. Can we broaden the view? Pipples izz pipples. Has anyone here checked out Kalindi Iiyi (spelling?)? I've wondered what his "Tammerian" fighting methods were like ... any similarities to FMA or other MAs? I've heard that the triangular footwork of Capoeira is similar to the footwork of the tribal/traditional Tae Kyon of Korea. Looking at advanced Capoeira I can see easy crossover btwn its kicking methods and those of N. Shaolin, Tae Kyon/TKD/HWD/etc. What did Burton Richardson study in Africa? ALSO: Congrats to Tuhon McGrath. Health, Longevity, Wisdom and Good Fortune to you and your family. Tuhon McGrath, if you would, please comment on Madagascar stick fighting. what do they call it there ... how similar is it to FMA or other fighting methods? Be well, Mik __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:25:38 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Up the street from where I live Woof: This today from up the street from where I live. Crafty - ----------------------------------------- Woman stabbed to death at busy mall, witnesses say REDONDO BEACH, Jan. 29 - A 67-year-old Los Angeles woman was fatally stabbed today outside the Galleria at South Bay, by a carjacker witnesses said apparently was enraged because the victim did not "cooperate." Redondo Beach police were called to the front of the Red Robin restaurant at 1815 Hawthorne Blvd. about 11:30 p.m., said Capt. Jeff Cameron, where the woman had been stabbed repeatedly and left in the roadway, a few yards from her white 1998 Mercedes-Benz sport utility vehicle. "We don't know exactly where (the carjacker) got in the car," Cameron said. "Witnesses saw her flee from the car and the suspect got out of the car and attacked her with a knife about 50 feet to the rear of the car. His demeanor was described as enraged, and after stabbing her many times, he simply walked away, leaving the woman and the knife." "As far as we know, there was no connection between the victim and the suspect," Cameron said. As soon as the man dropped the knife, several people screamed, "Get him! Get him!" said sign repairman Greg McCorkell, who with Jason Campbell was just checking in for work at the Red Robin. The two of them went after a man later identified as Joshua Daniel Lee, 22, of Hawthorne. "Me and my partner run after him," McCorkell told reporters, and "I tackle him. He's on the ground and not even saying a word." But the man eventually did start talking, telling anyone who listened - including police apparently - that the woman did not cooperate. Campbell said he and McCorkell had seen the man sitting in front of a nearby Nordstrom store, apparently "scoping out" potential victims. McCorkell said as the man stabbed the woman, "nobody was doing nothing, nobody." The woman was taken to County-Harbor UCLA Medical Center in Torrance, where she was pronounced dead, Cameron said. Referring to Lee, Cameron said, "He's a character that shouldn't be on the streets. He's in custody now at the Redondo Beach jail. We'll be filing murder charges against him." ------------------------------ From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:50:51 EST Subject: eskrima: Back from Sweden... From Marc Animal MacYoung Howdy folks. I'm back from a weeklong run of thumping on Swedish cops, bodyguards and bouncers. I'm trying to find my nervous system which is, as near as I can tell, not in sync with any known place on this planet. While this isn't really different than normal, jetlag just makes it a little more obvious :D Anyway as to some of the posts that were done while I was drinking beer and eating schinztel...errr...working so hard... >Knife grip... Yes I am a big advocate on using whatwhater you have. Something about being in a position where you are legally allowed to use a knife (lethal force) on another human being kind of implies "immediate" threat. Which last time I checked means the S.O.B. is himself in the middle of atttempting to kill you. This is no time to be fussy. More importantly I have found that unless you are in a place where blades are openly worn and easily accessible it is all sort of academic anyway...because when the guy is lunging at you with intent to kill you, seconds count. And wasting seconds trying to get yours out is usually a fatal mistake. BTW, speed is a large part of the reason I accepted and faced the social stigma of openly wearing a fixed blade, sheath knife on my hip. I was faster on the draw with that rig. And even then, of all my knife incidents I was only able to successfully draw it once during an attack by another knifer. >how many of you teachers out there advocate one way of getting him to stop for a minuet, without pissing him off is too tell him to be sure to use a condom because you have a venereal disease? the first time i said i had VD the other time i said i had aids...... and again both times it saved my young silly butt.... I was 17 and then 22 when these instances happened..... its one of the things i tell my young dating women to consider when there >with a date and its gone too far...... So you are saying that not once, but twice, your successful strategy was through thinking, awareness and empathy...not raw aggression. Not kicking ass and taking names? Brava. You will find that tactic is far more successful than many others espoused by many WSD instructors. >small things like this are again part of what should be taught... including what too do physically once you have the dude stopped for a min and have that min to do something.... again i will say this...... we need to really consider what we teach to woman and how we teach it..... this is an overall package that should not be rushed and it should all be given too them in >hard copy so they can remember it latter.... While that may not be directly "poo-pooed" by many so-called WSD instructors, through sheer lack of emphasis -- at least in comparison to the "other options" they spend most of their time teaching (i.e. physical) -- you have just mentioned what is probably the second least stressed element of WSD. The first being "Show a little commonsense and don't associate with selfish violent people...no matter how much fun you have doing things that you know you shouldn't be doing in the first place" While they may act like victims afterwards, it wasn't being mousey that usually gets people in trouble, but rather cockiness. It's interesting to notice that most often, it is the teenager -- who thinks "she can take care of herself" -- who ends up putting herself into a situation where she can be successfully raped, who is *gasp* successfully assaulted. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard these people negate or ignore serious danger signs about the people they "party" with. They stick their head in the lion's mouth and then whine when they get bit. I can only speculate that the motivation for this behavior is that they themselves are having fun playing "adult" and relishing the joys of indulging forbidden fruit. (Although it is often glossed over, ever wonder about the drug/alcohol stats of 90% in rapes? Especially pertaining to underage victims? Isn't drinking a no-no under 21 in the States?). I haven't heard too much said in other WSD programs about showing common sense in the first place. A woman may theoretically have the right to walk naked into a biker bar and not be harrassed, but she is a fool if thinks that it will happen. And a WSD instructor -- in my not-so humble opinion -- is criminally negligent if they teach a philosophy that encourages such reckless disregard for reality. The reality is if she chooses to do so, then she will have to accept the responsibility of the repercussions ... including that she may have to take a human life to save hers from the extreme situation that she put herself in order to "prove her rights." All self-defense options are predicated on the fact that you screwed up and found yourself in a bad place to begin with. They are damage control, pure and simple. No matter what happens after that point -- damage has already been done. Now it is a matter of minimizing further damage. However, no damage control is ever as good as preventing the problem in the first place. To that end, any teaching that stress it is your "right" to hurt another person because you put yourself into a bad situation should be viewed skeptically. Because no matter how justified you may think you are...the truth is if it takes killing someone to get out of a situation that you could have avoided in the first place, you've just killed someone unnecessarily. It may technically not have been murder...but it's damn close. So don't expect kudos from society for being a killer. Also no matter how you rationalize it to yourself, don't be surprised when that little voice in the back of your head wakes you up in the middle of the night and keeps on reminding you that you are a murderer. Kinda takes the fun out of beating the drum over your right to do whatever you want don't it? >While we are at it: Men's violence agains women is roundly condemned. Is men's violence against men allright? What about women's violence against men? The general impression one gets from the media is that the latter is something acceptable or even to be encouraged for whatever reason. Better PR? >The last statistics I saw for Canada showed the most frequent victim of violent crime to be a young male age 15-25. The chance of a male being attacked was 4 times greater than female, 8 times in a rural area. >Reading Mr. MacYoung's recent post I suspect that he has a well defined view on this. Animal? Yeah I do...violence is wrong. No matter who is doing it. Or who it is being done to. Violence is no more wrong because it is being done to a woman, child, ethnic group or any other special interest group. I find that the idea that violence is more aborhent if it is being done to "us" (i.e. a special interest group) to be a demand for special treatment over others. In otherwords, I'm better than you are so it is worse if it happens to me. I personally find this kind of thinking at odds with the defintion of democratic thinking. Didn't George Orwell mention something about this in Animal Farm...some animals are more equal than others? For the record, this kind of attitude (and mentioning that in No-Nonsense Self-defense we make a difference between abuse and domestic violence -- one is indeed victimzation, the other is a team sport with equal participation) is why I wasn't invited back to the Denver Task Force on violence against women. On the other hand, the head of the statewide women's rape prevention program also asked me in shocked tones "How do you get so many people to attend your program?" hee heee heee...sometimes it's fun to swim against the tide Animal ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:52:51 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #59 *************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.