From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #60 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 31 Jan 2001 Vol 08 : Num 060 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #56 eskrima: Kino Mutai eskrima: Animal's post eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #52 eskrima: Upcoming Seminar of GM "Esing" Atillo--Balintawak Arnis/Eskrima eskrima: Knife grips eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marco S. Subias" Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:26:56 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #56 Bear said... The post I sent about the sabre grip and the Bowie was from a historical viewpoint. The Bowie was taught as a form of dueling and as such had rules, etc., with the books that came out around W.W.II, most of the "knife fighting" was still based on dueling, where you and your opponent square off and go for it. Be well, Bear Can you give any actual historical sources from the time when Bowie knifes were supposedly used for dueling that actually document how Bowies were used in close combat and/ or what sort of Bowie knife training was actually practiced? I have asked this sort of question of a few people on the internet who claimed that Bowie knife fighting was taught as what we would think of as a martial art during the nineteenth century. Two sort of waffled when I asked for historical sources; of these, one of them simply stopped responding to my questions and another admitted that he knew of no historical documents that actually supported his position. In another instance I communicated with someone who makes money off of teaching what he claims are historical Bowie knife techniques based on genuine historical training methods, but when I (politely) asked for actual historical sources from the period Bowie training was supposedly common he responded with anger and personal attacks and threw me of his forum. My requests were as polite as this one. I have Clifford Hopwell's James Bowie Bio which includes a bibliography that does draw from period sources, including Bowie family records. While Hopwell's work leads one to believe that James Bowie was very brave, extremely tough, and possessed an incredibly strong killer instinct, there is little there that would lead one to think James Bowie was actually a _skillful_ fighter, or that he had any sort of methodical training in using a blade. Hopwell's book says nothing that would indicate _anyone_ studied Bowie knife fighting in any sort of methodical manner in the nineteenth century United States or its territories. I should stress that Hopwell is very sympathetic to James Bowie, and repeat that he cites letters and other documentation which now belong to Jame Bowie's descendants. So, do any historical sources about nineteenth century Bowie knife use/ training/ martial arts/ etc., actually exist, and if so, what are they? Marco ------------------------------ From: T2J2M2@cs.com Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:47:45 EST Subject: eskrima: Kino Mutai In the March 2001 issue of Black Belt, Paul Vulnak discusses his style of biting in a fight called Kino Mutai. I personally have some problems with this idea. First, there is not that much to learn about biting. It is relatively simple, latch on and chomp. You don't need to spend time on learning to bite. You were doing it since you were born. Second, human blood, especially of the "street" kind (drug addict, ex-con) is loaded with good stuff like HIV, all the 6 or 7 types of hepatitis, syphilis, and so forth. You'll win the fight but lose the war, so to speak. Third, he recommends using raw beef in order to train. Apparently, he has not heard of food poisoning. Forth, I know of no way to avoid of hiring a good lawyer. It seems that the police, prosecutor, judge and jury might look down on someone who literally takes a bite out of his opponent. You will leave teeth marks in your opponent which can be traced back to you with forsenic dentistry. Not a brilliant maneuver. You can probably face a lawsuit for mutilating you opponent, and prison time for mayhem. He does state that this should be done only in the gravest emergency, but if the prosecutor of civil lawyer learns that you were specifically learning to bite someone, it will sound like you were looking for a chance to bite someone. It would be hard enough to explain why you train with weapons without the added biting training. You could lie about it, but if you swear on a legal deposition that you never trained to bite someone, and they find out you have, its perjury time. Part of self-defense training falls into the LEGAL realm, and biting is just too hard (for the most part) to deliberately train in it. ------------------------------ From: Paul Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:20:33 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Animal's post >Marc wrote:I cannot tell you how many times I have heard these people negate or ignore serious danger signs about the people they "party" with. They stick their head in the lion's mouth and then whine when they get bit. I can only speculate that the motivation for this behavior is that they themselves are having fun playing "adult and relishing the joys of indulging forbidden fruit. (Although it is often glossed over, ever wonder about the drug/alcohol stats of 90% in rapes? Especially pertaining to underage victims? I know that you seek to bring awareness to this issue, your website is a fantastic source. This post is a bit disturbing. Carried to its illogical extreme this idea would lend vindication to those who extrapolate consent from lack of refusal. I understand that women often put themselves in dangerous situations. Lack of awareness, however, should never be punished with rape. This type of mentality is what causes the shame to be placed on victims of sexual assault and may be why so many rapes go unreported. When children are molested they will often blame themselves. The affection that may have preceeded the assault may have been pleasant. So, if the child enjoyed the hug or the candy, or whatever bait the assailant used, they will often feel that they contributed to the incident. A drunk woman, a teenager under the influence of rophynol and a child have one thing in common, a diminished capacity to make an informed decision. The childs welfare deserves protection by virtue of their innocence, as does the stupid girl's who partied with the wrong people. If someone victimizes your child by luring them into a car with a picture of a lost puppy, the last thing they need to hear at the hospital is, "See, I told you so." Martial Arts resource Eugene, Oregon http://www.fighting.org ------------------------------ From: Jesse Manibusan Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 19:04:44 -1000 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #52 > Back on topic, how do you guys help your students make the transition from > single to double stick? I think the basic advice works well here: start off slow, perhaps even work with a shorter stick so its easier for the odd-hand to handle it. The Sinawali drills, while frustrating for the beginner, are very effective in teaching the kind of skill required for double-stick work. Espada Y Daga techniques could work well for teaching the beginner but you may run the risk of over-emphasizing the assymetry of the long forward-hand weapon and the short rear-hand weapon too early in the training. After all, Espada Y Daga is a technique all its own, its not Duplicada/Sinawali with a shorter stick. So your student would have to be mindful that even though he/she could "get the hang" of Espada Y Daga more quickly than Duplicada, you can't always translate everything from Espada to Duplicada. I hope that makes sense. > Or do you start out with double stick? I think most people start out with single stick first. > I'm left > handed but in my Kali class we used the right hand so now I'm playing catch-up > with the left during my solo training. That leaves me looking for how best to > transition to two sticks. Any ideas? > > Thanks and train well. > > Bryan Creel First thing: You are LUCKY you are left-handed. Think of it this way: SouthPaws are rare, right-handers are common. SouthPaws frequently fight right-handed fighters. Right-handed fighters frequently fight right-handers. Neither SouthPaws nor right-handers fight SouthPaws often. Therefore when the SouthPaw fights the SouthPaw, he is at a loss (but so is the opponent SouthPaw). But when the SouthPaw fights the right-hander, the Southpaw is fighting a familiar fight, while the right-hander is at a loss. Make sense? Now then, playing catch up is tough. I am not left-handed, but there is a reader on this post who is a left-handed Eskrimador (who I haven't had the good fortune of training with in a long time). He and I would run into each other's sticks because we didn't quite "match-up" the way the drills are meant: one lunges, the other feints, and then switch steps, like a dance. He probably had the same frustrations you did. Your frustration stems from the fact that you are likely partnering up with a right-handed person whose steps do not mirror yours, even though that is what is supposed to happen. If you were to train with another lefty, you may have less problems. But my advice to you is to relish your "different-ness". And practice being that strange fighter that people can't quite figure out. _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Ramon Rubia Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 23:16:33 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Upcoming Seminar of GM "Esing" Atillo--Balintawak Arnis/Eskrima First time in the United States and Southern California(Los Angeles Area), GM Atillo will conduct his methods of Balintawak Eskrima/Arnis that he learned from his father GM Vicente Atillo (member Doce Pares and original member of Balintawak Self Defence Club of GM "Anciong" Bacon plus the legendary Doce Pares fighter Teodoro "Doring" Saavedra (father's training partner) and others. GM Atillo is one of a handful of legendary eskrimadors from Cebu, Philippines that had actual real contact stickfighting matches that are well known in Cebu. He is currently featured in the Filipino Martial Arts Magazine based in New York. Anyone interested e-mail privately. I will be posting the time, place, fees, and date in the next few days.Thanks. Ramon Rubia---Doce Pares International, California Chapter ________________________________________________________________ GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno today! For your FREE software, visit: http://dl.www.juno.com/get/tagj. ------------------------------ From: "jon broster" Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 04:48:38 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Knife grips Hi I always feel that something like choosing which grip to use in a knife fight is like deciding which football boots to wear. In the end it's personal preference. BUT training forms habits, so choose the grip that suits you best and work it until it feels like the blade is part of you. There is some interesting stuff on "Heartless Monkey Knife" by Steve Gartin on his Kuntao site (including his prefered grip!) at: http://www.kuntaosilat.com Mabuhay Jon http://www.geocities.com/jonbroster ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 7:39:05 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #60 *************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.