From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #61 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 31 Jan 2001 Vol 08 : Num 061 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #59 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #60 eskrima: RE: Kino Mutai eskrima: RE: a bite is just a bite eskrima: Playing with fire eskrima: Fw: saber Grip and the Saber eskrima: Re: Ramon-Balintawak Arnis/Eskrima eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #60 eskrima: Re: those darned lefties eskrima: Arnis Summercamp in Germany Subject: eskrima: Animal's post eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #60 eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bladewerkr@aol.com Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:31:39 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #59 In Louisiana, we passed a law a few years ago that gives a person the right to use deadly force to prevent carjacking. That law, along with the ccw permits, have, drastically reduced the chances of you getting carjacked in our state. Of course the liberal media had a field day with it, calling it barbaric, etc., etc. Sort of like they are doing now with the South Carolina Attorney Generals statement "invade a home, catch a bullet." It seems that the people "reporting" the news are more concerned with the fact that some poor misunderstood criminal might not be able to cost the taxpayers thousands of dollars a year (IF he is caught and convicted) than the fact that innocent people get hurt, raped, and killed. With some things there is a discretionary factor, others like home invasion and carjacking its pretty cut and dried and in these cases gun control should mean hitting your target. Running toward safety is wonderful and to be done if at all possible, but as this lady found out sometimes that just ain't enough. I am not sure of the statistics nationwide but in Louisiana 9 out of 10 carjack victims suffered serious injury 3 out of 10 were simply shot so they couldn't identify the perp. Be well, Bear ------------------------------ From: Georgios Christou Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 07:41:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #60 Paul wrote: > > >Marc wrote:I cannot tell you how many times I have > heard these people negate or ignore serious danger > signs about the people they "party" with. > They stick their head in the lion's mouth and then > whine when they get bit. I can only speculate that > the motivation for this behavior is that they > themselves are having fun playing "adult and > relishing the joys of indulging forbidden fruit. > (Although it is often glossed over, ever wonder > about the drug/alcohol stats of 90% in rapes? > Especially pertaining to underage victims? > > I know that you seek to bring awareness to this > issue, your website is a fantastic source. This post > is a bit disturbing. Carried to its illogical > extreme this idea would lend vindication to those > who extrapolate consent from lack of refusal. I > understand that women often put themselves in > dangerous situations. Lack of awareness, however, > should never be punished with rape. This type of > mentality is what causes the shame to be placed on > victims of sexual assault and may be why so many > rapes go unreported. When children are molested they > will often blame themselves. The affection that may > have preceeded the assault may have been pleasant. > So, if the child enjoyed the hug or the candy, or > whatever bait the assailant used, they will often > feel that they contributed to the incident. A drunk > woman, a teenager under the influence of rophynol > and a child have one thing in common, a diminished > capacity to make an informed decision. The childs > welfare deserves protection by virtue of their > innocence, as does the stupid girl's who partied > with the wrong people. If someone victimizes your > child by luring them into a car with a picture of a > lost puppy, the last thing they need to hear at the > hospital is, "See, I told you so." > > Martial Arts resource Eugene, Oregon > http://www.fighting.org I think that you're missing the jist of Animal's post. I have actually met people that would go out and do things because they thought it was their right to do these things, without thinking about any repurcussions or if they were hurting or stepping on some guy's toes. These are the people that I think Animal is referring to. Luring someone or making someone do something against their better judgement is another issue. The people that Marc is talking about go out there and present themselves as bait. For example, the Feme-Nazis will go out and be openly provocative to men, and when someone smacks them in the face they start screaming about the things that men do! Think about the guy in the dojo who thinks he's invincible. He might go out and pick a fight just to prove to himself and his non-existent self-esteem that he is indeed something! These are the people that will be caught into something really bad, and it really does not matter if they are men or women. If you're asking for it, then you shouldn't be complaining when it finds you... Take care, George __________________________________________________ Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Jeremy Bays" Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:34:05 -0500 Subject: eskrima: RE: Kino Mutai This is funny, I was just speaking with my teacher last night about this same thing. He says that the biting ans such came about as a counter to the jiu-jitsu and grappling movements. Thanks, Jeremy Bays - ---------------------- In the March 2001 issue of Black Belt, Paul Vulnak discusses his style of biting in a fight called Kino Mutai. I personally have some problems with this idea. ------------------------------ From: Patrick Davies Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:26:20 -0000 Subject: eskrima: RE: a bite is just a bite From: T2J2M2@cs.com In the March 2001 issue of Black Belt, Paul Vulnak discusses his style of biting in a fight called Kino Mutai. I personally have some problems with this idea. First, there is not that much to learn about biting. Phil Dunlap did a piece on biting on submission fighting forum on Kachin System of Burmese Groundfighting In fact I think that while a bite is just a bite, in fact a bite is more than just a bite, before it returns to being just a bite! ; ) I heard that Phils art was so clever that it beggars belief. Never seen it but heres a bit (ho ho) and I hope he doesn't mind: Biting Before I go over offensive biting I was going to touch on the basic ideas and concepts of the bite. Remember this is in description of Kachin groundfighting so I will stick with the biting while on the ground. Several things that are very important and can be experimented with when are defending the bite. The first is that at all times you must be maintaining contact with the neck and head or have your body weight on his jawline so he can not create the space to bite the other is if he does get his open mouth on you. You must force the bodypart deeper into his mouth and at the same time exert pressure on the back of the skull so that you are forcing the skull forward toward the bodypart this way you are making it so that he can not close his mouth. Biting will not necessarily terminate the fight but will definitely elicit a response. The difference between defending the bite properly and not defending it can be huge. I am going to share info about two of my students who were bitten in fights. The first guy came from a sport Bjj background and even when he trained his focus was always more straight sport based submission grappling and less self defence oriented he was a fairly good grappler. He got in a fight with a bigger stronger guy outside a bar in Jersey City and it was one of those stupid ego based fights. He did not like to consider biting or striking in his ground training and paid the price. This is from his and his girlfriends description "He took his opponent down and was in guard reversed and got mount the opponent did not get off a strike that landed. Opponent rolled to stomach alex put the hoks in and went for rear naked his opponent bit his foream alex panicked and opponent started to gat up . He took the guy back down and got side ride. now the guy turns into him and bites his abdomen really good. now alex pops him a couple times and the guy rolls over again this time alex puts the hooks in and is more careful with the rear naked and chokes the guy unconscous and gets up leavin him their." Because of Alex's not wanting to train for real life he not only gets bit once but also a second time the bites did not end the fight but definitely created opportunities that the other guy could have capitalised on. The next one is the story of a guy who is a cop and loves to train for reality. Pat is a persons worst nightmare.5'11" 250 lbs former powerlifter/bodybuilder probably the most useable strength of anyone I have ever met, guy has unreal endurance and the heart of a lion. He is making an arrest on a guy 6'0"tall and 210 or so and the guy is on crack .Pat tries to get the guy to go with him calmly and the guy attacks him . Pat takes him down right into a rear mount with the hooks in and starts to go for a sloppy rear naked thinking that he just wants to control the guy and cuff him not hurt him. The guy starts to bite Pat's hand at the base of the thumb. Pat immediately counters the bite driving the hand further into the mouth and shifts into a neck crank the guy stops fighting and is cuffed and taken away. By learning proper counters to the bite pat avoided a messy situation and by ignoring the bite Alex has 2 really nice scars to show for it He still won which is important but he paid a price. Both guys needed treatment for their bites but due to Pat countering his he sustained much less damage. First thing to remember when biting is the idea you are going to have a warm salty taste in your mouth and when biting something like the nose you may have a hunk of flesh in your mouth. It is important to visualise this when practising so you do not panic when it happens. You also need to get over the psychological revulsion to biting I generally tell my students to spit anything that comes off at your opponent as it lets him know he lost a body part. If you have blood in your mouth spray it at him. You want to maximise the shock value of having bit him. I was raised to believe that biting was just another technique like a punch or kick so as I describe biting please remember that. Facial biting The first area we will cover is the biting the face area and neck this is generally the most devastating are of the body to bite for several reasons. The head and neck area give a tremendous amount of control, it is psychologically overwhelming due ti increasing fear, many nerve endings increasing pain, more potential for severe damage. The ears and nose are two of the easier body parts to remove, as there is no bony structure to grind through. When biting this area it is very important not to panic and swallow if you have severed something, as it is easy to choke on. From experience I can vouch for the fact that when biting an ear the volume of blood is incredible, I have been told with the nose it is even worse. Remember when having bit these areas your opponent is at a serious disadvantage if he wished to continue the fight as he is bleeding profusely. Other than the typical revulsion and panic at the thought of having been bit the initial reaction to the bite will be to try and pull away from it and move his hands toward the area. when biting the nose you will have the added advantage of both affecting his breathing and vision. Biting of other facial and neck areas. Biting the lips The lips will be less painful than the nose and cheek but more painful than the ears. ... Remember you are not counting on these to be fight-enders merely set ups for other things we will concentrate on the torso above the waistline. Your first target of opportunity is the trap muscle area. This is an area for a deep bite your opponent is will curl into it and temporarily have difficulty using that arm excellent for setting arm submissions and escaping. Very good from both bottom ride and mount. Next is the nipple wich causes extreme pain your opponent will both push you and try to wiggle away this may be the single best bite to set up escapes from the bottom and arm locks from the side. Next up is the pec muscle itself wich is less painfull than th niplll and your opponent will try and push you away this becomes interchangeable with the nipple positional and for similar set-ups. these are all deep bites and are excellent set-ups. I just realised I am starting to go a little far into the biting aspect. - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- Ken and Mike came by the house for a private and asked the magic question about biting. Ask and ye shall receive. I am not sure what freaked him more being bitten or the jaw locks when he bit me. One my students had to explain my teeth marks on his pec to his girlfriend for real. By the way to anyone reading this I have practised biting a lot and have enough experience I can do it without breaking the skin so I do not take hunks out of the flesh of students - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - ---- "To add to the conversation for the people reading this when Phil goes over the biting it really can be an eye opening experience. Most people say things like oh I would bite him or gouge his eyes all I can say is this system has an almost scientific approach to biting. I was rolling with him one time and he pt his mouth over my nose and blew air forcefully into me causing absolute panic. Until you experience some of this stuff you don't understand the effectiveness. As to the grappling It has a very different spacial relationship than BJJ and I have always felt the positioning has a much heavier feel. When rolling with Phil he feels like a 300 lb snake wrapped around you. If he gets mount your breath is sucked away it is tough to describe." MS - ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- I believe he does videos of his seminars real cheap Pat "the chew" Davies Aberdeen Martial Arts Group ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:34:30 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Playing with fire A Howl of Greeting to All > From: T2J2M2@cs.com > Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:47:45 EST > Subject: eskrima: Kino Mutai > > In the March 2001 issue of Black Belt, Paul Vulnak discusses his style of > biting in a fight called Kino Mutai. Its not his style, its a FMA style which he is blending with BJJ. >I personally have some problems with > this idea. First, there is not that much to learn about biting. It is > relatively simple, latch on and chomp. You don't need to spend time on > learning to bite. You were doing it since you were born. Disagree. Dr. Gyi shared some aspects of this with me when I was in Ohio. >Second, human blood, > especially of the "street" kind (drug addict, ex-con) is loaded with good > stuff like HIV, all the 6 or 7 types of hepatitis, syphilis, and so forth. > You'll win the fight but lose the war, so to speak. , , , He does state that this should be done only in the gravest emergency. So what's the problem? >Third, he recommends > using raw beef in order to train. Apparently, he has not heard of food > poisoning. A t-shirt is worn over the beef. > Forth, I know of no way to avoid of hiring a good lawyer. It seems > that the police, prosecutor, judge and jury might look down on someone who > literally takes a bite out of his opponent. You will leave teeth marks in > your opponent which can be traced back to you with forsenic dentistry. Not a > brilliant maneuver. You can probably face a lawsuit for mutilating you > opponent, and prison time for mayhem. > He does state that this should be done only in the gravest emergency, >but > if the prosecutor of civil lawyer learns that you were specifically learning > to bite someone, it will sound like you were looking for a chance to bite > someone. It would be hard enough to explain why you train with weapons > without the added biting training. You could lie about it, but if you swear > on a legal deposition that you never trained to bite someone, and they find > out you have, its perjury time. Part of self-defense training falls into the > LEGAL realm, and biting is just too hard (for the most part) to deliberately > train in it. Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6. > > From: Paul > Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:20:33 -0800 > Subject: eskrima: Animal's post > > >Marc wrote:I cannot tell you how many times I have heard these people > negate or ignore serious danger signs about the people they "party" with. > They stick their head in the lion's mouth and then whine when they get bit. > I can only speculate that the motivation for this behavior is that they > themselves are having fun playing "adult and relishing the joys of > indulging forbidden fruit. (Although it is often glossed over, ever wonder > about the drug/alcohol stats of 90% in rapes? Especially pertaining to > underage victims? > > I know that you seek to bring awareness to this issue, your website is a > fantastic source. This post is a bit disturbing. Carried to its illogical > extreme this idea would lend vindication to those who extrapolate consent > from lack of refusal. I understand that women often put themselves in > dangerous situations. Lack of awareness, however, should never be punished > with rape. This type of mentality is what causes the shame to be placed on > victims of sexual assault and may be why so many rapes go unreported. > > When children are molested they will often blame themselves. The affection > that may have preceeded the assault may have been pleasant. So, if the > child enjoyed the hug or the candy, or whatever bait the assailant used, > they will often feel that they contributed to the incident. A drunk woman, > a teenager under the influence of rophynol and a child have one thing in > common, a diminished capacity to make an informed decision. The childs > welfare deserves protection by virtue of their innocence, as does the > stupid girl's who partied with the wrong people. If someone victimizes your > child by luring them into a car with a picture of a lost puppy, the last > thing they need to hear at the hospital is, "See, I told you so." > > Martial Arts resource Eugene, Oregon > http://www.fighting.org A couple of years ago, a couple in fine evening attire (tux and the female equivalent) were horribly attacked in NYC's central park one night. By all means lock the guilty up, but that doesn't change the fact that the couple was a pair of idiots. If I had led a woman into danger as stupidly as that man did, I would feel ashamed. The same concept applies whether one is male or female. Sometimes, just like some men, some women do foolish things. To call what Animal is describing a "lack of awareness" is, no offense intended, silly. He's NOT talking about a child taking candy from a stranger, he's talking about a sexually mature female , , , , ummm, , , , exploring the power of her sexuality. Crafty Dog ------------------------------ From: "Johnaleen" Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:07:20 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Fw: saber Grip and the Saber > I have read Hochheim books and have them here in our Library... but i use > the hammer grip as well as the saber when training, hammer mostly for out and out knife tactics and > knife defense, I also tend to use a lot of what the Seal teams and the > military/ police use in there hand to hand combat in self defense of knife tactics, > for me at least There are a lot of other ways to hold the knife though different depending > on what i am doing in practice, saber grip comes into play more with the espada ya > daga forms and so on....> My hands need to be able too grip that knife for out and out fighting and > defense i don't want the chance of losing it there... i do use the saber > grip though in practice with double knife i tend to use one in saber grip > and one in Reverse Grip and switch them back and forth between the 2 in > practice... i practice almost the same with my Balisongs but adding the > opening's and closings.... > > i am also in the process of learning saber/fencing it is one of the arts i > am learning to have for teaching to Victims on top of the other things... > saber/fencing is a romantic sport and is there as an option for me... i have > 6 more privet lessons to go before i am certified to teach... Unguard > weeeeeeeeeee.... actually i mess with my poor teacher he is a master in tai > chi and the president of the So NJ fencing team and academy... the first > month of lessons every time he would turn his back and i would change hands > and move the saber to the left hand... he would look at me change hands and > do the exercises, he would stop and say are you left handed? no i would > say... he would go then why are you using your left hand as well as your > right? i said well if your right gets cut off or sliced what do you do walk > away and say good day? he said that we only train here with one hand... i > said yeah well maybe you should think about the long term benefits of > training both hands... I did this too him for the first month of classes.. > > he had no clue but the years of fma taught me how to use both hands... he is > now training with both hands and encourages it to his students... Fencing is > Wickedly easy for anyone that has done Eskirma for any time of course... > and i never told him i did any other art before i went there.... he never > asked... all he ever asked me is if i had ever taken formal fencing > classes.... he still to this day dose not believe me when i tell him i never > have.... Now if i can get him off my back about joining there team things > would be easer... Silly man...... I am way too old fat and slow for that > kind of competition in my life.... > > " The old, Fat and slow one... Ms. J bows deeply...." Ms. Johnaleen Castro CEO/F.A.T.E. 1-888-526-4626 Victims Program Facilitating Awareness Through Empowerment FATE@f-a-t-e.org www.f-a-t-e.org ------------------------------ From: "Johnaleen" Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 13:12:02 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Re: Ramon-Balintawak Arnis/Eskrima Yo Ramon' "Upcoming Seminar of GM "Esing" Atillo--Balintawak Arnis/Eskrima Hey didn't you tell me he was going to be here on the east coast as well? Please post the East coast information as well please... btw i should be back down your way feb... "Johnaleen..... Ms. Johnaleen Castro CEO/F.A.T.E. 1-888-526-4626 Victims Program Facilitating Awareness Through Empowerment FATE@f-a-t-e.org www.f-a-t-e.org ------------------------------ From: Bladewerkr@aol.com Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:55:55 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #60 Can you give any actual historical sources from the time when Bowie knifes were supposedly used for dueling that actually document how Bowies were used in close combat and/or what sort of Bowie knife training was actually practiced? Let me preface this by saying that the best one can usually do is advance a theory based on the documentation available. Having said that, I will not tie up the digest with a really in depth answer. I will give you one example. In his "New Orleans, the Crescent City," John T. Monroe, a noted Louisiana historian notes the following in his discussion of the famed "Dueling Oaks" in City Park. Senor Don Jose Llulla, more popularly known as "Pepe" Llulla, a fencing Master whose school was at the corner of what is now St. Philip and Burgundy, had the dubious honor of having killed so many men in duels that he had his own cemetery to bury his opponents. He was the South's greatest Sabre expert, and had proven himself so many times against those that would argue differently. He was also a crack shot and a "genius with the Bowie knife." Now we have certain facts: Senor Llulla was a Spanish fencing master, trained in Spain. He had a "Salon de Armes" or fencing school in New Orleans. His signature weapon was the sabre. When the Bowie knife became popular he became known for his proficiency with it. His was not theoretical knowledge alone, as his cemetery so gruesomely points out. These are, if we are to believe Mr. Monroe and other noted historians, facts. Now we come to the theory part. Did Senor Llulla adapt what he was best at to a weapon that has several of the same characteristics of his beloved sabre? Did he teach, if you will, modified sabre for the Bowie? I think this is an entirely plausible theory. Of course he might have met a nameless Bowie knife Guro, who secretly taught him an entirely different art, except I don't think that scenario was as prevalent in his time as it is in ours. There are numerous accounts of duels being fought with the Bowie knife, to name a few: Major Ned Burns and Colonel Twyman, who met at Point Chicot Arkansas the description of which is in the "Natchez Weekly Courier" March 26.1866. The duel (fought in the chambers of the Arkansas Assembly) between the Speaker of the House, Colonel John Wilson and Assemblyman Major J. J. Anthony in June of 1838 see "Biographical and Historical Memoirs of Northeast Arkansas" by W. A. Goodspeed. Dueling was a serious thing schools teaching swordsmanship and pistol craft were everywhere, and as the Bowie became a prominent weapon they went with the flow and taught Bowie also. There are, to my limited knowledge, no actual "take the Bowie in the right hand holding it thus, etc." descriptions of what was taught. But judging from the fact that most weapons Masters when handed a weapon they are unfamiliar with will use it as they use a weapon of similar design, I think that the "sabre to Bowie knife connection has some historical validity. This is of course MHO, based on the research that I have done. As to your mention of others, I am not them I only speak for myself. But what I say is as far as the facts go simple to ascertain. Not easy, as digging through old newspaper accounts and sometimes out of print books is never easy, but it is there if you look for it. ------------------------------ From: MdlAgdLftr@aol.com Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 16:51:21 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: those darned lefties In a message dated 1/31/01 7:16:52 AM Pacific Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << I'm left > handed but in my Kali class we used the right hand so now I'm playing catch-up > with the left during my solo training. That leaves me looking for how best to > transition to two sticks. Any ideas? > > Thanks and train well. > > Bryan Creel >> Hi Brian, I'm also a lefty, but was lucky enough to have trained with teachers who insisted that I not try to play right-handed, but rather use the hand that was naturally dominant for me. I have since learned how to play right handed (sort of), but that is only because I used to teach, and all of my students were right-handed (I needed to see the art from a righty's perspective, and I have only ever taught two other lefties, one being my brother). My advice to you would be to use the hand that is naturally dominant for you, and make the necessary adaptations. I have heard it said by a prominent Eskrimador that there is "no such thing as being 'left-handed' in Kali and Eskrima, that a good player can use each hand equally well." Good lip service, but I then saw the same man teach the entire seminar right handed, and geared all the material completely toward the right hander. A distinct advantage to being a lefty facing a righty is that I tend to immediately "close off" the opponent by being able to zone to the outside from the first engagement (the personification of the word "Serrada," my particular art). This is especially advantageous when facing an espada y daga player....seriously slows down the knife, held in their left hand, from the get-go. Righties have the same advantage when facing us, but by the time they orient themselves to the weird hits coming in at them from the left side, it is usually over. My advice, after all this verbiage, is to capitalize on your "left-handedness," and don't let anyone turn you around...as Mike Inay used to tell me, "keep that stick in your left hand, where it belongs." Kim Satterfield ------------------------------ From: abanico-video-knuettel@t-online.de (Dieter =?iso-8859-1?Q?Kn=FCttel?=) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:55:53 +0100 Subject: eskrima: Arnis Summercamp in Germany Hi, I would just like to inform you, that I have now the english (and of course the german) information about our 7th Arnis summercamp in Germany. It will take place from the 30th of July to the 5th of August 2001 in Furtwangen in the beautiful blackforest in Germany. If any of you is interested in a week of training and fun in a beautiful area in Germany, mail me privately to: dk@abanico.de and I will send you more detailed information. Would be nice to welcome some of you listmembers on the camp. Best regards from Germany Dieter Knüttel ABANICO Video Productions http://www.abanico.de European Modern Arnis Representative http://modern-arnis.de ------------------------------ From: "Johnaleen" Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:07:24 -0500 Subject: Subject: eskrima: Animal's post *****Marc wrote:I cannot tell you how many times I have heard these people negate or ignore serious danger signs about the people they "party" with. They stick their head in the lion's mouth and then whine when they get bit. I can only speculate that the motivation for this behavior is that they themselves are having fun playing "adult and relishing the joys of indulging forbidden fruit. (Although it is often glossed over, ever wonder about the drug/alcohol stats of 90% in rapes? Especially pertaining to underage victims?******* Marc what i don't get is... did you not read the statistics that were all over this digest recently on rape and abuse? or do you question there validity? Until we change the examples these woman have to go by how are they to know otherwise? and the over present acceptance that it was there fault by others just creates more victimization by society and un acceptance.. it is one of the reasons that so many of these date rapes go un reported... because society has told these young woman they asked for it... tell me something marc this is just a hypnotically situation: if you were in san Fran and you as a heterosexual man got raped would you report it? now your in san Francisco and your a dude and you should know better to be in the area... but dose that mean it was your fault because someone forced themselves and there sexual acceptability's for them on you? and that because you were there is it your fault as well that it happened? and would you report it? i know this is a wide example but its just an example and something for you to think about overall.. it is sometimes what we need to do to be able to see things in the wider perspective... " putting your feet in others shoes" don't do the norm here please and say well it would never happen to me because i am skilled in the arts... you do not know that especially if its a large group of people involved.. Yes awareness is very important and so is teaching our children what is right and what is wrong... but overall children grow up with the examples that are set for them... they take everything they learn very literally if you say one thing and do another well.... makes since that they do the same.. unfortunately this is a huge issue and society based... we have spent hundreds of years hiding child molestation and rape... and then blaming the young children and girls for it instead of being there to show them the proper example.. why because of what we might look like if it got out that it happened... we care nothing for the one that is involved if we did we would never have told them it was ok by giving them the examples that are allowed in society today... i will say something else here as well... some may think that i believe its all the dudes fault that we have the problems that we do with this whole issue of rape and abuse.... Actually i believe otherwise... i believe that the main responsibility for the negative way some men have turned out is based on the examples that are set at home wile growing up with there mothers... If a women lets her son see her treated like dirt then its going to be something that is acceptable behavior to him later in life when he becomes a man... if women let there daughters go out the door and not give them the right guidance before they go and make sure there awareness is there then again its there fault, as well as the men that they allow to set the negative examples by excepting the bad behavior or treatment they receive from men... again for both genders. Woman were given the roll to care for children and have been in the nurturing roll since time out of time... its the one of the main reasons a women will kill... its to protect there young and so forth so educating people overall will change the mind set... and understanding as woman that we are the ones that have the first 18 years of example to be set for not only the girls but more importantly the men and how they will treat woman once they grow up into men.. Its this kind of thinking and mind set that should be taught as part of woman's self defense as well or my perspective and the way i teach to be sure... again its just part of a whole that should be covered when teaching women's classes of any kind in the Martial arts or Self defense... as well as to the boys in your normal FMA classes... its part of what i teach my lads in class how to respect others by the example i set for them by doing the same in return... if i really want to be treated in a certain manner and i cant expect to be treated that way unless i treat them in the same way... My lads i teach FMA too are not scared of me because of my skill levels but they respect me because of the example i set overall in life and the way i treat them.. Johnaleen..... PS i am as well the mother of 2 boys one 15 year old and one 21 year old and both of them know how to treat women and respect others believe and boundary's. why? because i did not let the men in my life that either abused me or tried to walk away from the responsibility of there actions.. and showed them both strong examples of what should be acceptable and not acceptable in a relationships between men and woman. " In the Presence of Inner Harmony, Learning and Understanding are Easy. " Ms. Johnaleen Castro CEO/F.A.T.E. 1-888-526-4626 Victims Program Facilitating Awareness Through Empowerment FATE@f-a-t-e.org www.f-a-t-e.org ------------------------------ From: abanico-video-knuettel@t-online.de (Dieter =?iso-8859-1?Q?Kn=FCttel?=) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 23:41:09 +0100 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #60 Hi everybody, how about a week of arnis training and fun in Germany? For everybody who is interested, I have now the detailed information (also in english) about our 7th arnis summercamp from the 30th of July to the 5th of August 2001 in Furtwangen in the beautiful blackforest in Germany. Every 2 years 80 to 100 arnis enthusiasts come together to train and have fun for one week. If you may be interested, just e-mail me privatly to dk@abanico.de and I send you the detailed information. Don´t miss it, it´s fun. Would be really nice if we could welcome some of you listmembers on our camp. Best regards from Germany Dieter Knüttel European Modern Arnis Representative http://modern-arnis.de ABANICO Video Productions http://www.abanico.dee ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:31:32 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #61 *************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.