From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #63 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Thur, 1 Feb 2001 Vol 08 : Num 063 In this issue: eskrima: Biting beef eskrima: Southpaws eskrima: re: Animal's post eskrima: Drive by commentary eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #62 - Man bites man eskrima: DDS biting response eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #62 eskrima: Leftish, Home Invaders+ eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Koblic" Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 20:08:05 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Biting beef "Third, he recommends using raw beef in order to train. Apparently, he has not heard of food poisoning. " Not to mention Mad Cow Disease! Mike Koblic, Quesnel BC ------------------------------ From: "Michael Koblic" Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 20:14:10 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Southpaws "But when the SouthPaw fights the right-hander, the Southpaw is fighting a familiar fight, while the right-hander is at a loss. Make sense?" There is lot to be said for training as a southpaw (NB Bruce Lee) or at least fighting with your strong side forward (not necessarily the same thing). I never understood it until my kickboxing coach pointed out to me that my defense was superior in a southpaw stance (having fought orthodox for-35 odd years). I then did a little survey: I watched as many boxing matches ending in a KO as possible on TV. I counted how many knock outs were effected with the leading hand and how many with the "power" (rear) hand. The count is so far approximately 2:1 to the leading hand! Mike Koblic, Quesnel BC ------------------------------ From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 00:32:13 EST Subject: eskrima: re: Animal's post Paul wrote << I know that you seek to bring awareness to this issue, your website is a fantastic source. This post is a bit disturbing. Carried to its illogical extreme this idea would lend vindication to those who extrapolate consent from lack of refusal. Okay, and by taking it to the illogical extreme you have compared apples and oranges. So let's pull it back into a more pragmatic point of view. And that is there is a significant difference between an innocent child and an a teenager who is willfully engaging in risky behaviors. While alarmists blur the boundaries to whip up emotional reactions, irrational debate and encourage lawmakers to pass unenforceable blanket solutions it doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize there is usually one hell of a big difference between a drunken frat boy and a pedophile. So let's confine our discussion to the issue at hand. (In other words, we give the straw man a coffee break from beatings) >I understand that women often put themselves in dangerous situations. Lack of awareness, however, should never be punished > with rape. Here's a hanky, you just should all over yourself. While that may sound like a flip comment, realize I have seen too much death, blood, pain, suffering, trauma and lives destroyed by violence to have much starry-eyed idealism left on the subject, no matter how good intentioned it is. Furthermore, I have seen enough to know that no matter how much "advocates" try to make it so, it is not a black and white issue. There is seldom a clearly defined "good guy/bad guy" in any violent encounter. A whole lot of this attitude has to do with the fact that I was often sitting there watching the whole problem develop rather than just listening to the victim's revisionist history after the fact. It kind of gives you a different viewpoint when you actually see situations develop, occur and then read how they are written up and explained later to sympathetic ears. And ohhhh boy is there a difference. With this in mind, let me clarify my opinion on this issue. NOBODY ever deserves to be raped, assaulted, murdered for their words or innocent actions. Having said that however, welcome to the real world...where it happens all the time. Call me unenlightened, but my concern isn't with what should be, but with what is. Ergo, "should" is a fantasy word often used by people who have a tendency to think that the world would be a better place if everyone just listened to and practiced their lofty ideals. (And Jim Jones would have formed a perfect world wouldn't he?). Unfortunately, there are people in this world who not only think differently, but act differently too. And when it is all laid out on the table people who use "should" a lot seem to have a tendency not to consider the validity of these other points of view. Should is a command word, granted it is a subtle one, but it is still trying to give commands to other people on how they are supposed to live their lives (i.e. do what you want them to do) However people are amazed when someone ignores it, fails to recognize it or just flat out runs over them for trying to order them around. In this light, can you see how your "Lack of awareness, however, should never be punished with rape." can be taken and used as a abrigation of personal responsibility for your own safety? What a carte blanche!!!! I can go out and with full knowledge, do any silly, stupid, selfish and dangerous act I want to and there will be no repercussions, backlashes or unpleasant results because I *should* be able to do these things. Babycakes, that is childish hope...not a reality. This is of course if you even accept the premise that rape is a deliberate and mandatory punishment for lack of awareness rather than just end result...but that is another argument altogether Now I don't know when the last time you looked into the eyes of someone who was coming at you with the idea of busting your jaw was, but you know what? That kind of person doesn't give a damn about your rights or what you think the world "should be" -- he's far more wrapped up in getting his way In other words, you are dealing with a person who has made a decision on how life should be and he is acting towards that goal. And dare I say it, but he's convinced that what he is doing is well within his rights. Bottomline is that "should" is a useless word that has absolutely NO value in a self-defense situation. The only thing "should" does is endangers a person into foolishly believing that a selfish ideal world is more real than the here-and-now that surrounds them. Not only is this kind of thinking more likely to put a person into a potentially dangerous situation, but it interfers with his/her ability to protect themselves against someone who is more self-centered, more extreme and more willing to escalate in order to "win" than they are. >This type of mentality is what causes the shame to be placed on >victims of sexual assault and may be why so many rapes go unreported. Just to spitball here...how about another possible explination? One that works more along the "I'm the center of the universe" attitude of the "Me" generation? I have seen many young people with delusions of invincibility charge headlong into situations that have me - as an old experienced dog - slamming on the brakes and saying "WHOA!" Furthermore... and you gotta laugh when this happens to an old, ex-LA street fighter named Animal...I am told that I am sounding like an "old granny" and that "It would never happen" or "so-and-so would never do that." The thing is I have met many women whose behavior I knew wasn't a matter of "If they would end up in deep shit...but rather when" They were totally convinced of their omnipotence. It would never happen to them because they were in control over others. Amazingly enough, afterwards they were utterly responsible for the actions of others. It was all their fault, they were totally to blame. Now call me cynical, but does anyone else in the place notice that both extremes claim total omnipotence? The details change, but not the belief of total power over others. Furthermore, both attitudes while apparently other oriented actually center entirely on ME. > When children are molested they will often blame themselves. The affection that may have preceeded the assault may have been pleasant. So, if the child enjoyed the hug or the candy, or whatever bait the assailant used, they will often feel that they contributed to the incident. Again a different dynamic. A different developmental stage. Apples and oranges >A drunk woman, a teenager under the influence of rophynol and a child have one thing in common, a diminished capacity to make an informed decision. Except, nobody held a gun to the woman's head to take the drink, much less get drunk. Furthermore, as was quoted in the Denver Post, coeds from Univ of CO testified before a senate judciary committee that they used "ruffies" for the same high as beer without the calories. Yep...they were taking it voluntarily to keep from getting fat. Other reports confirmed this had occurred nationally. So if they didn't take it themselves or they weren't caging free drinks that were spiked, it kind of comes down to the old rule of ...be careful of who you party with. Or is that awareness that we don't need to teach because no woman should be raped? While we are at it, how about saying it's okay to play russian roulette because the odds are in your favor? Nope...I'll stick with being considered a politically incorrect asshole for saying things like "The rapist is to blame for his actions. He is out of control. He is a run away train...now get off the f**king tracks" ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 21:54:20 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Drive by commentary A Howl etc: A series of drive-bys from the kid tonight: > Marc (this was to Animal-- Crafty)what i don't get is... did you not read the statistics that were all > over this digest recently on rape and abuse? 92.73% of all statistics are made up. > or do you question there (sic) validity? Dunno about Animal, but I sure do. I just clipped an article out of my local newspaper the other day that said that 48% (and I'm NOT making this up!) of the women in a study of raped women didn't know that they had been raped. (!!!!!!!!!!!!!) The simple fact is that a lot of intense politics has entered into this area. , , , > tell me something marc (again, this is addressed to Animal :-} ) this is just a hypnotically (sic) situation: if you were > in San Fran and you as a heterosexual man got raped would you report it? Animal can certainly speak for himself, but in my case he'd have to be a necrophiliac too because he'd have to kill me first. Humor aside, it might be worth mentioning that there ARE millions of homosexual rapes every year in America's prisons and no one gives a damn. This is so widely known that it is a running joke in movies and TV shows. Depending on whose statistics one uses, some 30-45% of the men in prison are there for drug crimes. The morality of putting a pot smoker in where he is going to be the bride of Cell Block D because people think pot is bad for him utterly eludes me. I leave aside interpretation of the silence of people about these millions of rapes, but for those tempted to give the glib answer of "If you can't do the time, don't do the crime" I would ask you just what it would take to meet the Constutuional standard of "cruel and unusual punishment"? - --------------------------- >But if a bite means the difference between dying today or getting AIDS and dying five years from now, i'll take the five years and drop as much acid as I possibly can :-) Ken !!!!!!!!!!!!!! - -------------- >A T-shirt is not a barrier for diseases, anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool. That's why meat is cooked. Apparently a few people have forgotten what undercooked meat did out west at the Jack-in-the-box. Interesting point. I was thinking of doing this training but would hate to be a fool :-) Anyone have any input on the ummm , , , prophalactic qualities of a t-shirt or other solutions in this regard? - ------------------- Re lefty and siniwali: > It is a bit like a child raised in a house where two languages are spoken. Often they will begin to speak later than their counterparts raised in a mono language household. But shortly thereafter they are talking in two languages and usually are better adapted to learn the third and any more there after. > I guess I would want to emphasize the importance of patience to this idea. Teach peace GHSoto Agreed, good analogy. In DBMA there is much emphasis on developing both sides. Unlike boxing, which uses both sides even as it stays in one lead, single stick uses just one side of the body. In addition to the martial benefits of both sides, there are also the physical benefits of a balanced body. Many lefties become really difficult opponents, especially in double stick because they mix up so well which is the dominant side. Sleeping Dog comes to mind. - ------------------------------ >Crafty, Animal used the term awareness and eluded to it when describing a teenaged girl who "thinks she can take care of herself"-- who ends up putting herself into a situation where she can be successfully raped, who is *gasp*successfully assaulted... >You may term this type of behavior idiocy but is it not rather innocence. My point is simply that this naivete deserves no punishment or ridicule. And, you are quite correct in your estimation of my silliness and simplicity. I simply love people and silly as it may be this issue brings tears to my eyes. I'm done... Paul Hopkins Woof Paul-- Actually you have a fair point here. There certainly are plenty of such cases. Cindy was telling me of a friend of hers born and raised in Small Town, Nebraska. The kind of place where everyone knew everyone, waved, no one locked their cars or homes, etc. At 20 years old, the friend came to LA and found herself drinking with a bunch of bikers. How friendly they were! They even invited her over to their pad! More drinking and dancing. When she went to the bathroom, one of the guys followed her in and told her "I can tell you don't understand what's about to happen here. If you go back out there, you're going to be doing all 8 of them whether you want to or not." He got her out of there. This sort of gallantry (!) is not to be counted on! This case would certainly qualify as innocence. And if she does the same thing again, she's an idiot. And in some cases, the woman is looking to find out just how much she can tempt fate and finds out that it was less than she thought. Why is it so upsetting for some people to hear this??? Its true! This is not taking rape lightly, or suggesting that rapists should not be punished (including the gay ones in SF! :-) ) just a yip of support to Animal for plain speaking in an area that needs and deserves it. BTW, as I briefly related a couple of years ago here on the ED, some 22 years ago a Mexican friend and I spent 3 days in a Mexican prison as a result of stopping four drunken locals from dragging off two American girls who were with us and unsuitably dressed for the locale. Idiots or not, they were deserving of our protection and got it. Following up on my post of the other day, if I am blessed with a daughter, her mother and I will teach her to not assume that all men will be gentlemen at all times. Some are evil, and some just get more fired up sometimes than they can deal with. And she will ALWAYS be able to count on her Dad. Sad indeed the fate of any who would hurt my girl. Woof, Crafty Dog ------------------------------ From: "Jon Howard" Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:50:57 -0000 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #62 - Man bites man Hi there, I have read with interest this latest thread on biting and my OWN personal take on it is this. I don't think bitings for me for all the very good reasons already stated (do you really expect the life low scum that attacks you to be as fastidious regarding personal hygene as you are?) - BUT after reading the informed posts, I am considerably more aware about what to do if some miscreant tries to bite me - force the part further into the mouth (possibly choking the opponent?), apply forward pressure on the skull, control the head and neck line, etc etc etc. If only for the defensive aspects this area deserves some study. On a related note, are the defenses applicable to attacks from animals (dogs), would biting a animal ever be considered as part of a defense ??? Jon... ------------------------------ From: "q" Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 03:15:50 -0800 Subject: eskrima: DDS biting response On the biting thread...this is not professional advice but...I personally do not think it is that bad to the biter even if blood is drawn from a tainted individual. While it is theoretically possible to contract disease in theory the mouth is lined with intact skin. Getting someone's blood on your skin of the arm is no big deal. Blood in your mouth is a bigger deal but still the nature of the bite and then expelling any contents is way different from the action of prolonged contact of a sexually transmitted disease from oral to genital transmission where there are well documented oral infections from an external source. Direct blood to blood contact is totally a different story and way more likely IMHO to be a disease transmission route. So if your choice is to bite or share blood by head butting each other bloody biting is better. Even the AIDS virus is found in lower quantities in the mouth vs in the blood of a tainted individual. My generation of dentists are reall the fisrt non-wet fingered dentists. Dentists have been sticking their hands in bloody mouths yanking teeth for generations with minimal disease transmission from either a diseased dentist to patient or diseased patient to dentist. In fact dentists getting diseases are like man bite dog stories they are so rare. As one great Silat man said during the height of the BJJ craze..."I can bite my way out of any hold"... As to defenses sometimes the most unnatual things are the ones that work. So if the bite is on a body part that is flat like an abdomen pull the guys head into the bite more as hard as you can. This starts to stiflle the airway and people don't like it when the airway is cut off. It also makes it more difficult for the jaw to properly articualte to bite efficiently. They then let go and try to pull their head up. If the body part is say a hand or finger stick the whole hand or finger toward the back of the throat. This again directly threatens the airway. If you have the other hand free an old SF guy Thor Montgomery taught me to ripe the thumb into the space between the cheek and buccal aspect of teeth and ripe that skin back to the occipital of the head. This does no damage but is extremely painful, causes the opponant to loose head position control, and force the release of his teeth on your bodypart. Thor actually targets this part of the mouth and throws people from here just like the classic hair jerk redirect throw. Guro Suwanda also had a similar throw that ripped the cheek or compressed the forehead or ripped the nose up to throw as part of Made (sp) and the cikalong walk thoughs. Some of you guys may remember that. Regards, Carlton H. Fung, D.D.S. Redondo Beach, Ca. ------------------------------ From: MdlAgdLftr@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 06:33:02 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #62 In a message dated 1/31/01 7:09:14 PM Pacific Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << In fact, the most learning came when they would simply show the technique via the right hand and make me translate it to the left. This is where I think the benefit from being Southpaw comes in. You cannot simply imitate the movements, you must break them down mentally and then physically do them. This along with the fact that we mainly practice against the right handed opponents give us an advantage, at least early on in the training. >> There you go, Cory, that's it exactly. We lefties can do no better than imitate the motions when we try to use the stick in our right hand, the same as righties trying to learn the art left-handed...no matter how much you try, it will never feel natural. Again, I am extremely lucky to have had the instructors I had, and still have; no one ever tried to turn me around, but allowed me to figure it out on my own. BTW, the players that gave me the most trouble were lefties....go figure. Kim Satterfield ------------------------------ From: kalkiusa@netscape.net (Mikal Keenan) Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 09:34:51 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Leftish, Home Invaders+ In a seminar led by guro (?) Cucci, he suggested that we should always train using the same lead. His reasoning was that we can't predict how we'll turn up in a fight and it is best to have a singular orientation in terms of leads. OK ... what about injury that requires adjustment of game plan? Like the post on fencing and using the weapon in either hand ... makes sense to me. IMHO we should cultivate the ability to fight with either lead for the same reason that Cucci suggested we train from one lead only. No disrespect to him intended ... given the account of the fencing master we know that there are many who think the same way. My own meager training involves working ALL single stick basics with both right and left hand. It takes longer, but I know that some simple injuries can take a whole lot of fight out of a hand, e.g., no grip. > the South Carolina > Attorney Generals statement > "invade a home, catch a bullet." Dontcha just luvvit!:-) I wonder sometimes how much LSD somebody would have to take before they'd start to believe that criminals should have more rights than the law-abiding ... some of whom have been or may become the criminals' victims. Does anyone know the fate of the Citizen's Right to Self Defense Bill? IMHO we need to get behind such things because although it's related to 2nd Amendment/firearms concerns it could impact the use of any weapon in self defense ... likewise unarmed self defense, e.g., the tone of the courts and juries in interpretation of legal standards. When will it become generally "OK" for the law-abiding to use force appropriate to prevent themselves from becoming the victims of criminal force? Empty hand, stick, knife, whatever ... sometimes we can be judged the same as or worse than the criminal when we act in self defense. BTW, from Merriam-Webster online . . . Main Entry: slave Pronunciation: slAv Etymology: Middle English sclave, from Old French or Medieval Latin; Old French esclave, from Medieval Latin sclavus, from Sclavus Slavic; from the frequent enslavement of Slavs in central Europe Date: 14th century __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 7:56:47 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #63 *************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. 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