From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #64 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Thur, 1 Feb 2001 Vol 08 : Num 064 In this issue: eskrima: historic ref eskrima: Bites eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #63 eskrima: Beef, burgers, bugs & BSE (long) eskrima: Kino Mutai practice eskrima: kina mutai eskrima: Re: animal's post eskrima: Panatukan Seminar NYC 2/24/01 eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #63 Re: eskrima: Arnis Summercamp in Germany eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dale" Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 11:26:47 -0600 Subject: eskrima: historic ref <> Back in my karate days, I heard quotes of Bill "Superfoot" Wallace saying something similar. I believe his reasoning for this was something like he'd rather train one side fully than divide his training time by two sides. I'm paraphrasing because that was about 19 years ago. - --- See you in the sticks, Dale www.kalieskrima.com ------------------------------ From: kalkiusa@netscape.net (Mikal Keenan) Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 11:38:15 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Bites Biting ... what about the fact that underneath the tongue (sublingual) there is a near direct line into the blood system? Dentists getting disease from patients may be rare, but patients getting disease from the water in dental equipment is less rare. Be well, Mik __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ From: Todd Ellner Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 09:50:19 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #63 > "Third, he recommends > using raw beef in order to train. Apparently, he has not heard of food > poisoning. " > > Not to mention Mad Cow Disease! Alas, cooking doesn't make meat safe from MCD. ------------------------------ From: "Wallace, John" Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:59:03 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Beef, burgers, bugs & BSE (long) Crafy asked: >>A T-shirt is not a barrier for diseases, anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool. That's why meat is cooked. Apparently a few people have forgotten what undercooked meat did out west at the Jack-in-the-box. >Interesting point. I was thinking of doing this training but would hate to be a fool :-) Anyone have any input on the ummm , , , prophalactic qualities of a t-shirt or other solutions in this regard? The worries over uncooked meat in the US are understandable, given the horrors of BSE in Europe and the truly tragic food poisoning cases here in the States. There are a couple of qualifiers that you should be aware of, however, when making judgements about the safety of your favorite hunk of animal muscle tissue. The e.coli contamination has to date been an issue with ground meat, not cuts of steak. Presumably the hamburger contamination occurred either at the meat packing plant, where contaminated tissue from the intestines was ground in with the rest of the beef, or sloppy handling practices got...er...intenstinal contents onto the rest of the carcass, which was subsequently ground into hamburger. Cut steaks have a much lower risk of contamination in this way, as the butchering is done under different conditions, and unlike hamburger, the meat in a steak below the surface is as sterile as it was before the cow was killed. Ordinarily, cooking the steak even to the "rare" stage effectively sterilizes the surfaces that are subject to contamination, so you don't need to worry about getting pathogenic e.coli from a filet mignon. Hamburger's different..you should always get it well done. If I was inclined to simulate a biting target with raw steak, I would trim off any fat and give it a good rinse (if I was really worried I'd use soap...ruining the steak in the process...). As ....... noted a T-shirt is useless as a barrier to disease, but it might be good at enhancing the "reality" of the experience. If you wanted some other sort of true barrier I suppose you could get a prophylactic dental dam (supposedly lesbians worried about oral-genital transmission of disease use them..if you get my drift). The problem with that is it would pretty much defeat the purpose of using real meat at all..you might as well chew on a doggy toy. Crafty & associates might enhance their rep this way :) On Mad Cow disease (BSE), well there's no cooking your way out of trouble with that one...apparently the causative factors (prions) aren't deactivated by heat...so if you're in Europe & worried about BSE you shouldn't eat (or bite) ANY local beef. You could mail-order some from the US though. I know there are companies in Omaha, Nebraska that ship worldwide. The US government keeps assuring us that BSE is not, and will not be a problem here...to date they appear to be justified in their opinion so stateside raw beef afficionados should be safe. There are very, very few other cow -> human transmissible diseases. Cows get sick from lots of things, we get sick from lots of things, but you could drink a bucket of sick cow snot and not get a cold from it. (Nausea on the other hand, is an option). As for other meats...even healthy chickens supposedly harbor salmonella, and pigs have a number of human-transmissible diseases & parasites so their meats are best thoroughly cooked. You could probably safely use fish steaks of some sort...tuna, salmon, or shark & the like... Bona fides from me on all this...well I'm no food scientist, nor do I work for the FDA or the beef industry. I am a biologist (not a PhD), studied bacteriology at Cal State (Humboldt) & have a basic understanding of the risks of the comments I've made here. I would consider them acceptable personally & for those I'd be responsible for. YMMV. Sorry for the length of all this, but I'm thrilled to actually be able to contribute, being a total novice in Eskrima & all. Personally, I'm not interested in training for biting, I prefer my steaks medium rare & my burgers well done. - -JW ------------------------------ From: "Lars" Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 13:34:28 -0600 (CST) Subject: eskrima: Kino Mutai practice Howdee, I am not sure if anyone might have already mentioned this, but I had a thought on a possible solution to the uncooked meat problem. What about using a fairly nice piece of steak and just browning it. I believe, though I am not a cook or a doctor (though I play one on t.v...just kidding), that one can eat a good cut of meat VERY rare, even bloody, as long as the the outside is cooked to kill the bacteria. With ground beef, it needs to be cooked for a lot longer because it is all mixed together. By just browning the meat, the center would remain essentially raw and training would be just about the same. Plus, you could eat it when you were finished! Lars ------------------------------ From: Paul Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 12:32:57 -0800 Subject: eskrima: kina mutai I always train with the bite in mind. Analyzing each position you will develop an awareness and an ability to control the opponent. For me it is important to train not just to create space but to control position to avoid the bite. Play with the concept and find out when you are vulnerable in the clinch and on the ground. Having bites applied by Paul Vunak absolutely sucks. The neurological overload from his uninterrupted pressure and ability to control position turned me into a virtual baby. On the danger of raw steak. I may be wrong on these but ...I doubt that E-coli would be found on a steak it generally occurs from grinding feces into the burger and I don't believe Mad cow disease can be cooked out. Paul Hopkins Martial Arts resource Eugene, Oregon http://www.fighting.org ------------------------------ From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 16:55:08 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: animal's post << From: "Johnaleen" >Marc what i don't get is... did you not read the statistics that were all over this digest recently on rape and abuse? >or do you question there validity? Go out and read a book called "How to lie with statistics" For your information, I prefer raw numbers (cites) over statistics. I also want to know the agenda of the organization that did the study and who funded the study. The reason is I want to see the criteria that went into the statistics and how they were spun. Furthermore, I am very open on my use of statistics...I take the Bureau of Justice statistics (which are known to be low) and the most commonly presented numbers from groups that rely on the existence of a crisis for funding (which are known to be high). I split the difference and then use that number...while telling everyone that nobody knows the exact numbers. I do admit to throwing out the most extreme cases like Andrea Dworkin who said "all sex is rape" due to a lack of credibility. And I also state that the high numbers are questionable, because many of the sources refuse to release their records so the numbers can be confirmed or contested. There are no numbers out there that can be called both realistic and reliable. The only things statistics do is indicate generalized trends that we can track; they themselves are not proof of our philosophy or opinion. This is a point many crusaders tend to forget. >Until we change the examples these woman have to go by how are they to know otherwise? and the over present acceptance that it was there fault by others just creates more victimization by society and un acceptance.. it is one of the reasons that so many of these date rapes go un reported... because >society has told these young woman they asked for it... Okay, so it is obvious that you read Mary Koss's "I never called it rape" This is the source of the 40% of women who didn't "realize" they had been raped reference that Crafty mentioned. (Yeah, I'm Marc Animal he's Marc Crafty). Yeah, they had to be told they were raped...which kind of makes one wonder about what definition the women had AND what definition the questioner had. On the other hand before we put too much faith in people proselytizing about what society is or isn't or what it does or doesn't, let's not forget that this is the same camp that gave us the "rule of thumb" urban legend about thesize of a stick we could use to beat our wives. Or the fact that us brutish males beat our wives more on Superbowl Sunday. Oh yeah...here's the "I hate to tell you this, but them's urban legends" -- http://www.urbanlegends.com/language/etymology/rule_of_thumb.html and http://incestabuse.about.com/health/incestabuse/library/weekly/aa011998.htm? terms=Super+Bowl+domestic+violence The bottom-line however is where is it written that being born with breasts automatically instills a Ph.Ds in sociology, anthropology, psychology, criminology or an intrinsic knowledge of men? And while we are at it...mind reading? How can any agenda group honestly speak about what millions of people feel about a subject? Gone out there and asked them have you? Not everybody in a "society" shares the same opinion. And yes I will be the first to admit that "blaming the victim" was a sleazy lawyer trick used to get rapists off the hook prior to the outcry against it -- however the pendulum has swung the other way. Now if you even question the total lack of common sense that put the woman into a place where she could be raped, those who think victimhood is something special, immediately start screaming that you are blaming the victim. No. Not at all. Blame isn't the issue, common sense is. And when you are 40 with a job and a family to support, you kind of realize that there are behaviors that are not only nonproductive, but selfish, stupid, dangerous and often illegal. And bad things happen there. . It's not that what the rapist did isn't wrong. But rather just because he did something that was far worse, doesn't automatically negate the fact that the whole situation was hinky in the first place. And while one person has gone overboard, unless you are a victim's rights advocate, most people tend to consider the victim's participation in the process. Many people were raised with the idea that it takes two people to fight. So when the average person looks at it and says "yeah, he did wrong, but you shouldn't have been there in the first place" they are NOT blaming the victim as so many victim's advocates go postal over, they are just talking common sense. So with this in mind, is it not feasible that this "society's judgment" that everyone decries is mostly in the mind of the person who knew they were doingsomething stupid and dangerous and are ashamed that it blew up in their face?Is it not possible that it is not societal condemnation half as much as it is embarrassment? Who wants to admit that they screwed up that badly? Pride goeth before the fall...but if you don't think people try to cover their mistakes so they don't look stupid, you don't have much experience in the corporate world. You may call it societal judgment, but it sure looks a whole lot like pride to me. >tell me something marc this is just a hypnotically situation: if you were in san Fran and you as a heterosexual man got raped would you report it? now your in san Francisco and your a dude and you should know better to be in the area... but dose that mean it was your fault because someone forced themselves and there sexual acceptability's for them on you? and that because you were there is it your fault as well that it happened? and would you report it? i know this is a wide example but its just an example and >something for you to think about overall.. dunno...last time I was attacked by multiple attackers I ate the faces of two of them to open a hole and got the hell out of there. Their buddies, after seeing what I had done to their cohorts, decided that they weren't really interested in continuing the conversation. But the important thing is I didn't stand around to fight them to find out what their nefarious plans were. On the other hand I can tell you in a not-so-hypothetical way, through a significant lifestyle change (moving, marriage, raising a kid and not associating with certain types of people) I have not been shot at in six years. Which for me is an all time record. So what kind of conclusion can we draw from thinking about that? >it is sometimes what we need to do to be able to see things in the wider perspective... " putting your feet in others shoes" Yep...an it is equally important to find a wider perspective than just sympathy. In fact, it kind of important to work our way toward empathy. And not just for the victim, but for all the parties involved. It is at that time that we realize that this issue is far more complicated than many would like it to be. Unfortunately, most people confuse sympathy for empathy and by doing that fall into the trap of blame, benediction and thinking that damage control is far more important than making sure the problem doesn't happen in the first place. > unfortunately this is a huge issue and society based... we have spent hundreds of years hiding child molestation and rape... and then blaming the young children and girls for it instead of being there to show them the proper example.. why because of what we might look like if it got out that it happened... we care nothing for the one that is involved if we did we would never have told them it was ok by giving them the examples that are > allowed in society today.. What do you mean "we," white woman? You don't speak for me. Especially because your point of view doesn't reflect mine, but yours. And you will excuse me if, as someone who has stood at the wall, I don't jump for joy about passing blanket, poorly written and unenforcable laws based on someone's "shoulds" rather than the intricacies of reality and the problem at hand. For example I am all for mandatory arrest in domestic violence. You physically assault someone, that's it. Thing is when you pass that law, you get about a 50/50 arrest rate (I believe Michigan discovered it was 54/46). However, when the same stats were passed around here in Denver, instead of listening to the cops who were quite happily arresting two people for fighting, lobbyists pushed for and got an amendment. Mandatory arrest for the primary aggressor. Guess what? That doesn't mean the person who threw the first blow, but instead the person who won the fight. Usually that means the man is arrested. Oh BTW in Denver, that also means if there is ANY sign of physical force...and not necessarily against a person... n arrest must occur. If a coffee cup is broken, someone is going to jail. Patrick Roy (Waugh) of the Avalanche just fought it and won. It was decided that he was busting his own property so no crime was committed...so we'll see how long this lasts. BTW, all the cops speak to hate it because it clogs the courts and takes them away from patrolling. This is what comes of laws based on someone's idealistic shoulds. >Yes awareness is very important and so is teaching our children what is right and what is wrong... but overall children grow up with the examples that are set for them... they take everything they learn very literally if you say one thing and do another well.... makes since that they do the >same.. Tell you what...go out and read Stanton Samenow's "Inside the criminal mind." It also might help to explain why there has been such a dramatic increase in female criminal behavior and violence. >Actually i believe otherwise... i believe that the main responsibility for the negative way some men have turned out is based on the examples that are >set at home wile growing up with there mothers... You are blaming his mother? How Freudian. Can't it just be that he is a violent, self centered asshole who learned that he can get what he wants through using violence? Not to pop your bubble or anything...but I think most people who deal with violent people will tell you that it is more the perp's perception about his ability to get away with it that determines if he is violent -- not necessarily the victim's gender. As people are very seldom dishonest in only one area of their lives, they are seldom violent in only one area. To claim that is it somehow worse because it happens to women is claiming special treatment. Or even more frightening, a kind of Orwellian thought police. It's scary because you are condemning someone for how they think...rather than just by what they do. > Its this kind of thinking and mind set that should be taught as part of woman's self defense as well or my perspective and the way i teach to be sure... again its just part of a whole that should be covered when teaching > women's classes of any kind in the Martial arts or Self defense... To tell you the truth, I tell women who inquire about our class that we don't teach self-defense, but rather life skills. Understanding of dynamics that lead to violence. And how to keep from putting yourself into a situation where you might be fighting for your life. Because dying or killing someone over your "right" to do something stupid and selfish is somewhat of a life-altering experience. > My lads i teach FMA too are not scared of me because of my skill levels but they respect me because of the example i set overall in life and the way i treat them.. And that is a good thing...teach people to respect people for being people. Not because they are a particular gender or a hyphenated American. Question is do you teach them not to tolerate being verbally attacked by those kinds of individuals for holding opinions other than that group's agenda? ------------------------------ From: "Neil Cohen" Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 16:59:46 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Panatukan Seminar NYC 2/24/01 On February 24th, Sifu Darian Whittaker, www.gibsonsmartialarts.com, will be conducting a Panatukan seminar at Anderson's Martial Arts in NYC, www.andersonsmartialarts.com. The focus of the seminar will be Panatukan and combining panatukan with elements of Kali and Jeet Kune Do. Mr. Whittaker is a Full Instructor under the late Terry Gibson. An Associate Instructor in Jun Fan Gung Fu/ Jeet Kune Do Concepts, and the Filipino Martial Arts, under Guro Dan Inosanto. He is also a certified muay Thai instructor under Ajarn Chai Sirisute and an Associate Instructor level under Sifu Marc McFann. Anderson's Martial Arts 35 W 31 st., 8th Floor NY, NY Pre-registration (before 2/17/01) - $65 At the door - $75 For more information, please call 212-714-0632 or email at amanyc@earthlink.net Sincerely, Neil Cohen ------------------------------ From: MdlAgdLftr@aol.com Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 17:18:11 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #63 In a message dated 2/1/01 7:35:34 AM Pacific Standard Time, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << There is lot to be said for training as a southpaw (NB Bruce Lee) or at least fighting with your strong side forward (not necessarily the same thing). I never understood it until my kickboxing coach pointed out to me that my defense was superior in a southpaw stance (having fought orthodox for-35 odd years). I then did a little survey: I watched as many boxing matches ending in a KO as possible on TV. I counted how many knock outs were effected with the leading hand and how many with the "power" (rear) hand. The count is so far approximately 2:1 to the leading hand! >> When I was boxing, I fought left lead, although I am a lefty. I had a severely dislocated right shoulder in my younger days (did it weightlifting), and therefore couldn't punch worth a darn right lead (anyone who's boxed will tell you about the role the shoulder plays in lead hand punching). I have a decent right cross, but it took me years to cultivate. My favorite take-'em-out shots to this day are a left uppercut to the liver, and a tight left hook to the jaw. I use a fake overhand right to set up the step-in and lead hook or uppercut. On the subject of "what if your strong hand is injured?", I don't think anyone will have the time to respond to the pain of the injury and switch the weapon to the other hand before their skull is cracked. The attacker is counting on feeding off of your reaction to the pain of getting your hand smacked to deliver his killing shot uninterrupted. Kim Satterfield ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 16:52:05 PST Subject: Re: eskrima: Arnis Summercamp in Germany > I would just like to inform you, that I have now the english (and of > course the german) information about our 7th Arnis summercamp in > Germany. It will take place from the 30th of July to the 5th of August > 2001 in Furtwangen in the beautiful blackforest in Germany. > If any of you is interested in a week of training and fun in a beautiful > area in Germany, mail me privately to: Is this primarily a Modern Arnis (style) camp or are other FMA styles represented also? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 16:54:01 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #64 *************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.