From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #65 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Fri, 2 Feb 2001 Vol 08 : Num 065 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #63 biting eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #64 eskrima: Re: Arnis Summercamp in Germany eskrima: Bowie knife information eskrima: bites eskrima: Not right aint wrong. Subject: eskrima: Re: animal's post: animal attacks eskrima: Biting eskrima: rape no more eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: T2J2M2@cs.com Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 19:37:48 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #63 biting Crafty, If water can freely flow through a material, it is not a bloodborn barrier. A T-shirt won't do anything. You need rubber, vinyl, or similar material. Leather might work for a while, if it is properly waterproofed. Of course, all this defeats the purpose of biting raw beef. DR Fung, A) I know of a few officers who have been bit by convicts. They had an upsetting 6 month waiting for the AIDS test. Getting bit is no joke. B) Everybody I know of has swallowed toothpaste before. If someone can swallow toothpaste, they can definitely swallow blood. Biting someone is considered high risk behavior. All someone has to do is hit an artery and you could have blood down your throat. Everybody, No one seems to realize that someone who has been bit just might hunt you down with a 12 gauge. Having a chunk of your body bit off is one heck of a reason for vengeance. If your going to bite, you DAMN well better be sure right. No one truly likes a person who bites. Crafty, In the state of Michigan, about 27% of people are in for drug offenses. Not merely possession, but for distribution. Generally speaking, merely having an once of marijuana is not going to land you in the big house. As for the 30%-45% raped in prison, I think that it is outdated. Not that many people go to the infirmary for a bleeding ass. At the most, for a 500 man prison, about 1 rape happens per year. The number rapes in prison is greatly exaggerated, although it does happen. ------------------------------ From: Todd Ellner Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 16:44:33 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #64 John writes: > There are very, very few other cow -> human transmissible diseases. Venereal anthrax, curse of the lonely Wyoming farmer :-) ------------------------------ From: abanico-video-knuettel@t-online.de (Dieter =?iso-8859-1?Q?Kn=FCttel?=) Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 01:56:25 +0100 Subject: eskrima: Re: Arnis Summercamp in Germany > > If any of you is interested in a week of training and fun in a beautiful > > area in Germany, mail me privately to: > > Is this primarily a Modern Arnis (style) camp or are other FMA styles > represented also? > > Ray Terry > raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Hi Ray, of course, we teach primarily Modern Arnis on that camp for we are a Modern Arnis organisation. But we are also influenced for example by Suro Mike Inay and others. Especially when practicing selfdefense, empty hands and knife, functionality, proper mechanics and effectiveness are the prime targets we are looking for in our training. But if we have guests, they sure also teach also some of their style. BTW, one side note to the left handers: One of the biggest differences between Professor Remy Presas and Ernesto Presas is, that Remy is a leftie. Therfore he teaches the right and the left hand, where Ernesto only teaches the right hand. For example, in our Modern Arnis "Tapi-Tapi" drill (taught by Professor Remy Presas), something like flowsparring or sumbrada, we frequently change hands from right to left and back to right. Ernesto teaches something similar what he calls "freestyle", where he only teaches the right hand. I don´ßt say that he soesn´t know it, but he doesn´t teach it, especially not in a drill. Best regards from Germany Dieter - -- Dieter Knüttel European Modern Arnis Representative http://modern-arnis.de ABANICO Video Productions http://www.abanico.de ------------------------------ From: "Jason Bousquet" Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 01:24:05 -0000 Subject: eskrima: Bowie knife information Marco, For some historical background on the bowie knife, your best bet is to visit the School of Two Swords website first- www.twoswords.com - and then contact the schools owner, Mr McClemore. I know he'd be able to give your some good histoical sources. Mr McClemore's School focuses on western martial arts and he is very keen into research. (Warning- The 2 Swords webmaster working on adding multimedia, so the first page may load funny.) I'm not an expert, but bowie knife did borrow techniques from the the saber, rapier, and the cutlass. I recently wrote a report on a School of Two Swords Bowie Seminiar that can be found in the articles section of the KSMA homepage - http://members.tripod.com/ksma_kali/index.htm if you are interested in some snipets of history and the 2swords' training program. (Dwight does not claim to teach the historical step by step curriculum of any weapon; just how best to use the weopon). Feel free to email me directly if you have any questions. V/R Jason _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "q" Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 17:37:31 -0800 Subject: eskrima: bites >From: kalkiusa@netscape.net (Mikal Keenan) >Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 11:38:15 -0500 >Subject: eskrima: Bites > >Biting ... what about the fact that underneath the tongue (sublingual) there is a near direct line into the blood system? Dentists getting disease from patients may be rare, but patients getting disease from the water in dental equipment is less rare. > >Be well, >Mik Sorry Mik, Totally not true and that is a dental fact. You can document no confirmed dental water transmissions of disease regardless of who the TV show was that supported it. The fact is that Dental water via the public tap does have more generic bacteria that regular tap water but there is no confirmed significance to any problems with this. Millions of dental visits are done daily and everyone is just fine. Those are the facts. However, if you are kind paranoid which I am. I personally use a reverse osmosis filtered water supply and my lines are stored dry at the end of each day. Is that conclusively better? No one knows. Does it make sence that it would be better...Yes. Additionally the sublingual area is no more access to direct blood supply than any where else in the mouth. People are parnoid about the bite. The facts just don't support reality on this issue. Regards, Carlton H. Fung,D.D.S. Redondo Beach, Ca. ------------------------------ From: "Stephen Jones" Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 02:07:19 Subject: eskrima: Not right aint wrong. A hail and bow to my fellow eskrimadors! I know I've been out of touch with the ED for a few years (enough time to hit rock bottom and swim to the surface again :-) ). So I thought I'd pop in and comment on the lefty stream, being a left hander myself. Living in a right-handed world has its advantages and disadvantages. Left-handed people need to learn right-handed ways of doing things which they perform on a constant basis - giving them naturally greater ambidextrousness. Being in the minority also gives them the 'rare enemy effect' as discussed earlier. However, on a more sombre note I heard it once said that the life expectancy for left handed people is slightly less than right-handed people due to the stresses on the body of adapting to right-handed ways of doing things. I dont know if this is correct (I hope it isn't) but if anyone has some stats I'd love to see 'em. So there may be a kind of trade off. I train mainly right-handed with my Arnis class and I also instruct this way as it is easier for most students to learn this way. Everyone is naturally assymetrical both in the way we move and do techniques, not to mention musculature etc.- and the differences are worth learning early. I do practise pretty much evenly on both sides though, as I prefer to work on my 'good side' if I have the chance for honing techniques. Right handed people through the advantage of majority rules dont need to bother about learning lefty ways of doing things to get through life. 99% of the time whatever it is they need to do is tailored for a right-hander. This is great in life and most sports but not so good in FMA and fighting as these pursuits are ambidextrous. Most untrained right-handed or left-handed people cant for example punch effectively with their off-hand and its easy to tell the preferred hand. This is generally due to lack of practise. Lack of practising more ordinary moves with the off-hand causes problems also with sticks. Therefore live-hand training and any ambidextrous activity can be very challenging for people unwilling to train their off-hand exclusively (in the basics). My point being that right handed people have more to gain than a left handed person from training off-hand skills as a lefty is more likely to have naturally superior ambidextrousness through training with the right-hand being more common, and through life experience. With the deepest respect, I think the sword-saint Musashi would agree in that any strong preference in strategy is not good. In order for my strategy to be a good one it should not be known to the enemy- if my strategy is all right handed or left handed......... All the best to you and yours, Stevo Jones. PS- I apologise, if I had more time to write this post would be shorter :). _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. ------------------------------ From: "Johnaleen" Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 01:09:41 -0500 Subject: Subject: eskrima: Re: animal's post: animal attacks Question 1) ****I also want to know the agenda of the organization that did the study and who funded the study. The reason is I want to see the criteria that went into the statistics and how they were spun.**** Answer 1) the statistics that i posted here and were quoted from are based on the Studies done by the Atlantic County woman's center and Abuse/ Victims counsel for the county of Atlantic in the State of NJ. the studies were done to prepare the Victims Advocates-Nurses-Counselors-Police Department's members for the SART team here. SART = Sexual Assault Response Team.. the funding i believe came from community donations and the study was done i believe and then compared to the other states and the studies of other such teams in operation now... for the actual agenda of the organization... that i believe is apparent. if not i can provide you with the Executive directors name and phone number that runs the program and the center, they can give you there findings.. furthermore the studies that were used are used in the overall training program for these members. NOTE: at the time i posted the stats, the statement of where they came from was listed.. ****Assumption 2) Okay, so it is obvious that you read Mary Koss's "I never called it rape" This is the source of the 40% of women who didn't "realize" they had been raped reference that Crafty mentioned.***** Answer: 2) sorry lad i never read it... Definition.... easy deal with rape if i said no and you did it anyway then you have taken my freedom of choice away... no does not mean yes.. if you take my choice away then you have violated my rights and have raped me.. rape (râp) noun 1. The crime of forcing another person to submit to sex acts, especially sexual intercourse. 2. The act of seizing and carrying off by force; abduction. 3. Abusive or improper treatment; violation: a rape of justice. 4. To plunder or pillage Webster....... Rape (criminal law), in criminal law, the act of sexual intercourse with a woman without her consent or with a minor. Generally, for the crime to constitute rape, the woman must resist, unless she is incapable of resistance because of mental or physical weakness or deterred from it by fear of bodily harm. A woman younger than a designated age, which varies in different states, is considered incapable of giving her consent. Intercourse with such a woman is termed statutory rape. Rape is a felony punishable by imprisonment. In the United States during the mid-1970s, feminists led a widespread movement to change rape laws and to give rape victims more sympathetic treatment. The American Heritage® Dictionary....... i am not sure what other definitions of rape i need....and a victim is not gender based, it does not matter if your male or female all victims should be treated the same, but that has been stated by me here before over and over.. 3) *****Or the fact that us brutish males beat our wives more on Superbowl Sunday.*** Answer 3) yes i have been there.. its interesting though, because demographics has a lot to do with it as well overall... for instance in the areas surrounding Casinos and Gambling there is a totally different area of study that was done based on gambling and drinking and the stress factors involved with domestic violence... 4)******How can any agenda group honestly speak about what millions of people feel about a subject? Gone out there and asked them have you?**** Answer 4) i am not sure if you mean have i personally gone out there and asked them? you can not ask millions of people what they think but..... I have personally been to the shelters and i have talked to thousands of people over the years... 20 years of doing this for a living with my education to back it helps that part as well... " what? i have been sitting around for the past 20 years not doing anything?" I have done thousands of hours counseling victims of all kinds, all from different walks of life and all over the world, all with totally different backgrounds. not only woman but men as well... actually i have respect for everyone and there opinions.. its why i advocate giving Options to people based on there personal needs overall..... working individually with them giving them tools... what they do with the tools is up to them.. i spent 3 years finding out the reasons woman don't get into an art.. or take self defense.. i also know the reality's of what people feel like after becoming a victim and what options that may help them get past something's.. not only that but i have worked with men that have taken time to do studies on there own and have worked with men that are chronic abusers.. there are programs designed for this purpose and educating the person that committed the crime about what they did is just as important as educating people on how not to be a victim before it happens... 5) ******Now if you even question the total lack of common sense that put the woman into a place where she could be raped, those who think victim hood is something special, immediately start screaming that you are blaming the victim.******** Answer 5) I believe i covered that point in the post but i will go over it again here for you... again this is part of the overall awareness that should be taught to people... not only at home by there famleys but when teaching self defense... yes its stupid for you to go out there at night alone dressed in a mini skirt... but.... that does not mean you can't do that it just means, if you do it here are the reality's of what you will face, and once you take the responsibility's of your overall action then be prepared to take responsibility for part of what happens.... i.e. awareness training "don't do it if your not trained to go out and know the danger signs when you do".. again until we change the examples overall that society has accepted then people's awareness will not change.. Victimhood is not what should be advocated... learning to become a survivor from the victimization is another thing though...... 6)*******Is it not possible that it is not societal condemnation half as much as it is embarrassment? Who wants to admit that they screwed up that badly? Pride goeth before the fall...but if you don't think people try to cover their mistakes so they don't look stupid, you don't have much experience in the corporate world.****** answer 6) embarrassment... i covered this partly and where do i believe the real embarrassment lies?.... it lies in the examples that we have allowed to be set over the years...... as people in general.... even as educators.. if we don't teach the example and be the example that we are trying to offer as options to people then how is the knowledge of what we are teaching going to be a positive example? If one of my sons or one of my students weather they be male or female goes and gets arrested for rape then its an embarrassment to myself and what i teach... and yeah i totally agree with you Who wants to admit they totally screwed up? as far as having experience in the corporate world... i have been there as well. That's why it says CEO on the end of my signature... that does not mean I have to make the mistakes that others have made buy the examples that they set.. i much rather sit and look at all the mistakes that have been made first by others and then try and not make the same ones... why should i pay double for something someone else has done wrong. ******7) Yep...an it is equally important to find a wider perspective than just sympathy. In fact, it kind of important to work our way toward empathy. And not just for the victim, but for all the parties involved. It is at that time that we realize that this issue is far more complicated than many would like it to be.Unfortunately, most people confuse sympathy for empathy and by doing that fall into the trap of blame, benediction and thinking that damage control is far more important than making sure the problem doesn't happen in the first place.****** answer 7) yeah i agree that blame is not the answer here and that we need to go back to the root here, the examples that are and have been set over the past years... again working with not only the victims of these crimes but the men that commit them as well... again this is based on education and we have a program just for the men that are falling into the crimes..... its based on going back and changing the thought process of what is acceptable and what is not... also part of the work with men is teaching them how not to go there when there faced with domestic violence as an abuser... in turn empowering them to take the tools given to them and too help themselves to gain control over there emotions and anger.. 8) ***What do you mean "we," white woman? You don't speak for me. Especially because your point of view doesn't reflect mine, but yours. And you will excuse me if, as someone who has stood at the wall, I don't jump for joy about passing blanket, poorly written and unenforceable laws based on someone's "should" rather than the intricacies of reality and the problem at hand.***** 8) "We" meaning the society as a whole... in my answer for #6) i covered this partly and what i meant by We.... again its hard to say we blew it as you said before... secondly what dose my race have to do with this? just because your point of view is different then mine dose not mean that it is not valid.. each persons perspective is valid to themselves and i would not condemn anyone for believing as they will.. that does not mean we cant think on different terms and explore different avenues... being closed minded is not a goal of mine to be sure... as far as the reality at hand.... again i will go back to the overall example that " we as a society have set over the years of what is acceptable or not" the reality at hand is that until we change the way we educate and the examples that are set things will not change for the better overall... 9) assumption: ***And you will excuse me if, as someone who has stood at the wall, .**** Answer 9)" Someone that has stood at the wall bows deeply to you...." again assuming that i have not been there at that wall is an assumption based on not understanding who i am as an individual.. as far as un-enforceable laws... i never said i wanted to go and enforce the laws that are set here in the united states... I fully know the reality's of the laws and the reality's of enforcing them, regardless of the laws here if people are morally balanced then socially you will be a good example... you would be surprised the walls i have been stood up against... if you want my personal war story's then email me privately i don't tend to tell my personal up against the wall story's until i am asked because most have problems conceiving the enormity of them... 10) **You are blaming his mother? How Freudian.Can't it just be that he is a violent, self centered asshole who learned that he can get what he wants through using violence?**** answer 10) i am not blaming anyone i stated that i believe that woman have a major responsibility to show there sons as they grow up how they should be treated.. based on us as woman and the examples set to them... tell me this if he is just a self centered asshole who "Learned " that he can get what he wants though using violence then how did he learn it? did someone teach it too him?" or was it something he learned by the examples that are out there of others doing the same thing? most likely by the examples that have been set for him... if there were no examples of this, how did he learn it as you say? learning is based on what is taught and when a teacher teaches something don't they teach it partly by example? 11) ******To tell you the truth, I tell women who inquire about our class that we don't teach self-defense, but rather life skills. Understanding of dynamics that lead to violence. And how to keep from putting yourself into a situation where you might be fighting for your life. Because dying or killing someone over your "right" to do something stupid and selfish is somewhat of a life-altering experience.****** answer 11) again awareness training and hope you have not assumed that i don't teach similar concepts... that's the deal here its an overall package.. all so most of the time if we are not talking directly here about women's issues, I try to include the statement that all genders apply to this.. its why i pointed out the male perspective as well.. i believe its a balance and all of the parts, it should all be discussed even the perps perspective and what makes a person violent and how to deal with it overall and again to make sure your not a victim before hand and how not too be an abuser again if you were. regardless of your gender.. I also know the reality's of a victim and why they did not fight back to kill in the first place when it comes to the ones that are dealing with there spouses or family members being the abuser in there lives...why would i tell someone to kill the one they love? its not something i would do. but defending yourself and getting away and out of the situation. first choice though, is avoiding it all together.. i don't believe i ever said it was worse for one gender then the other if they have been raped or abused... i will now though based on my education and experience in the filed state that each persons level of trauma is based on there own personal experience's in life.... each person is individual and there reality's are there own..... i would never tell someone for instance... 'well i have been though a hell of a lot more then you so stop your winning" why? because again each persons trauma is just as valid based on there experience... in case in fact based on my personal case's and clients... if i had to be put to the test and asked for my personal opinion? i would say based on what i have seen in my clients over the past 20 years of being a social worker and dealing with in family services, its seems to be a lot harder on men that are raped or abused because of the society based judgments that are set on the male gender with what is acceptable or not..... now that is based solely on my personal experience over the years with clients dealing with post traumatic disorders after the victimization had accrued... for your reference: i don't teach one day seminars in self defense. they are taught in blocks of a minimum of 4 classes covering all aspects of awareness and self defense training based on my training/experience/education and my Sr. Vp's training/experience/education witch by the way is a male. 12)***Question is do you teach them not to tolerate being verbally attacked by those kinds of individuals for holding opinions other than that group's agenda?**** answer 12) i teach them that they need to keep an open mind and to listen to what they hear and then take the information that is given to them and use it the way they feel is correct.... again options for the path they decided to follow... I also teach them that if they do have an opinion that its there right to do so, but that if there going to state that opinion they had better be ready for the challenge that they will face with others of different opinions.. furthermore that if you have an opinion that differs from others that does not mean that there opinion is not valid to the other person and that they feel just as strongly as you do.. each person is an individual and that each have there own examples to go by.. and until you get to know the person and the perspective that there examples are based on you will never understand why they have them or what bases they came to them from... one more important thing.... i personally believe and tell whomever i am teaching or counseling that you should never take someone's Opinions as a personal attack.. you can ask and question but once someone takes the offensive its very rarely that the other person involved can put that behind them and be able to listen to what you say objectively.... Johnaleen..... Nature imitates herself. A grain thrown into good ground brings forth fruit: a principle thrown into a good mind brings forth fruit: Everything is created and conducted by the same Master....... the root, the branch. the fruits, .....the principles, the consequences. .....Blaise Pascal Sorry for the long post kids.. but there was much to answer for it seam's Ms. Johnaleen Castro CEO/F.A.T.E. 1-888-526-4626 Victims Program Facilitating Awareness Through Empowerment FATE@f-a-t-e.org www.f-a-t-e.org ------------------------------ From: Todd Ellner Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 22:35:24 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Biting It seems a little strange to have to tell people how to bite. Most of us do it dozens of times every day. It's not that difficult. Where isn't rocket science either. If it's soft enough to sink your teeth into it's soft enough to sink your teeth into. The comments here about disease are well taken. Personally, I'd be more worried about hepatitis A to Z than AIDS. As with any option you have to weigh the potential costs against the benefits. You probably don't want to put your mouth anywhere near Joey the Junkie with his suppurating sores. But if the other choice is getting raped or beaten to death it begins to look a little more attractive. I've personally experienced one time and known a number of other people who decided that it was the best choice at the moment. It worked quite well, had a psychological impact all out of proportion to the physical damage. The most dramatic case was a student of our who had been an MP when she was in the service. What the hell she was doing in the class was a mystery, but she seemed to enjoy herself. Once, when she was helping clear out a bar full of drunken, rowdy Rangers one of them slammed her up against the wall and was commencing to beat on her with a chair leg. She had already broken her (lead-filled) club on his head. The next option was to shoot him. But she turned, sunk her teeth into his arm, held on with both hands, and started worrying it like a dog. She says that a few seconds later he was begging her to put the cuffs on him if she'd only get her teeth out of him. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 6:49:07 PST Subject: eskrima: rape no more Cheez folks, could we talk about FMA, just a little... Please, no more rape or 'answers' about rape, just FMA discussion. Thanks. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 6:49:36 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #65 *************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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