From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #78 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sat, 10 Feb 2001 Vol 08 : Num 078 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Kamagong and Bahi Sticks eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #77 eskrima: Last words on Dr. Gyi eskrima: breakable bahi eskrima: misc info eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kel620@aol.com Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 12:00:49 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Kamagong and Bahi Sticks Does anyone know where I can purchase Philippine hardwood(kamagong, bahi...even cocobolo, etc.) sticks that come in a 1 1/8" or 1 1/4" diameter? All of the online companies that I've found only sell their sticks in 7/8" or 1" diameters. Thanks, Kelvin Williams ------------------------------ From: SolAndes@aol.com Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 13:53:45 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #77 In a message dated 2/10/01 4:31:29 PM !!!First Boot!!!, eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com writes: << On to FMA - are there any East Coast stick fighting tournaments. I know there used to be the Lion Heart in MD. If there isn't any, are there enough people interested in having one? Neil >> Neil, Guro Dong Cuesta has been holding WEKAF tournies at Rutgers University, NJ, every year since 1997. His friend Guro Doug Pierre is holding one in NYC on april 22. I'll be hosting Guro Dong for a seminar in New Brunswick, NJ on april 21. For more info check out the Doce Pares USA website at: www.doceparesusa.com Regards, Ken ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 12:57:40 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Last words on Dr. Gyi A Howl of Greeting to All: Although it can be quite common, I fully share the belief that one should not fib about one's service to our country. That said, some thoughts. 1) Some say if his stories are true, there will be military records. I do not share this view of the all knowing, all seeing nature of military records. Rather I see them as on a par with the Florida Department of Elections. I think there are LOTS of things not recorded in war. (Can this be a cover for BS? Of course!) Each of these world views will draw different conclusions. Mine is that there is an absence of publicly available records certainly does NOT prove the claims against Dr. Gyi. 2) If one reads carefully, the website referenced is a giant hodge podge of anonymous hearsay, often by individuals impassioned by the importance of integrity in these matters. However, IMHO a proper appreciation of the gravity of the accusations would lead one to REQUIRE names to accusations, and show an appreciation of the weakness of hearsay. My life is a relatively simple one and I know how often people get things wrong about me and what I have said or not said. This is how the world works and I see no reason that this should not apply to anonymous hearsay concerning Dr. Gyi. Furthermore, most of the things they say he says I have not heard him say. In my brief dealings with them I have gotten the impression that their collective mind is made up. For example, this passage from an e-mail rant printed on the website: "THE THING THAT GOES AGAINST OUR GRAIN IS THAT HE HAS A LIFE MEMBERSHIP IN THE DAV, AMERICAN LEGION AND VFW. AT THAT HE GOES TO CHILLICOTHE OHIO TO THE VA HOSPITAL." Thus there ARE military records somewhere. Yet I do not get the impression that it has even occurred to anyone to do the leg work to track this down. Nor does there seem to be any inclination to state clearly what if anything they acknowledge about Dr. Gyi. Rather my statement of what I knew for myself was called an insult to our veterans. F*** Y**. My confidence is not inspired. In response to the one courteous and reasoned email I received from one of the individuals involved wherein he asked why he should believe me, I wrote: "I BELIEVE WE HAVE HERE A KEY POINT: I HAVE NO OPINION OR FEELINGS AS TO WHAT YOU SHOULD DO. If you believe he is lying, then by all means show what you have to the world.It will be more persuasive however when it comes from people who put their own name and honor in play. It is less persuasive when anonymous people ask on the anonymous internet for anonymous accusations." 3) Which brings me to the next point. Silence by Dr. Gyi proves nothing either way. I have no idea why this campaign would start now (one anonymous individual e-mailed me he has been with the man "longer than you have been alive") but the man is 74. I find it plausible that the focus of his life is elsewhere. Woof, Crafty Dog ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 14:30:39 PST Subject: eskrima: breakable bahi Someone (was it Rob? maybe Kim?) mentioned breaking a bahi stick. I have easily broken kamagong and other hard wood sticks, but I haven't broken bahi. Was it an old stick? We're you perhaps trying to break it, or did it just fail under normal use? Just curious. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 14:58:38 PST Subject: eskrima: misc info Taken from the Kris Cutlery catalog (#7). Kris Cutlery sells a fine variety of Moro Kris and Barongs, Indonesian Keris and other weapons. For more info contact Kris Cutlery at http://www.kriscutlery.com. Any typos are probably a result of my scanner & OCR s/w. Ray - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Historical Background Philippines, Indonesia and Malaysia have some of the most varied edge weapons in the world! Some historians have grouped these three countries into one: The Malay World. Similarities in language, culture and racial stock are sometimes not easily recognized due to the colonial influence of the past and the political boundaries that exist up to the present. Indonesia was occupied by Dutch colonizers; Philippines, by the Spanish conquistadores; and Malaysia by the British Empire. The subjugation of these countries resulted in bloodshed in some areas. In Sumatra, the Aceh and Menangkabaws had a long record of uprisings against the Dutch. The Bugis from Sulawesi also gave the colonizers a lot of trouble. In the Philippines, the battle with the Islamized Pilipinos (Moros) was endless. The Spaniards were relentless in waging wars with these "savage, heathens with krisses!" Finally after three hundred years of failure, the Spanish conquistadores had to leave for the next colonizers: the Americanos. The Moros favored bladed weapons. The most prestigious were the kris, barongs & kampilans. These bladed weapons were used for combat only. Blades vary in size and weight to suit the individual warrior. Handles were made of wood like bunti which is a hardwood from a root of a particular tree. Weapons like the kris, originated in Java and spread to different islands of Madura, Bali, Sumatra and Sulawesi...probably during the Majapahit Empire. The Southern part of the Philippines which is closest to Indonesia, picked up some cultural, religious, and social exchange early on. The Moros of Southern Philippines developed the Indonesian thrusting kris into a slashing combat sword. The Moro kris became a symbol of authority amongst the Sultanates that existed then. The Moro kris is an excellent sword in group fighting due to the fact that the double edge can be used in either direction. In Indonesia, the kris developed into a mystical weapon with complex association to power, magic, and wealth. Literally hundreds of blade forms and pamor (laminations on the blade) exist today and are some of the most beautiful work of art. Beras wutah or scattered rice grains is the most common pamor which we sometimes call a random pattern. The Indonesian kris normally does not have an edge since it is a thrusting weapon. The Moro barongs have a different development. With no obvious popular prototypes in Indonesia, it is most likely that the barong took a later transformation into a combat sword than the kris. The barongs curve edge and relatively wide blade have made it a weapon with tremendous cutting power. It is an easy sword to maneuver compared to others. Barongs are found in Zamboanga, Basilan, Sulu Islands, southern tip of Palawan and Sabah, North Borneo. It is the favorite weapon in one to one close combat amongst the Moros: Tausugs, Samals & Yakans. ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 17:14:19 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #78 *************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. 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