From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #101 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 21 Feb 2001 Vol 08 : Num 101 In this issue: eskrima: Tuhon Bill's Live Blade Training eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #100 eskrima: West Michigan instructors? eskrima: Re: Running... eskrima: Mime-Version: 1.0 eskrima: Animal in El Segundo Lincese to Learn eskrima: Re: Running eskrima: Re: True But... eskrima: Re: Search for Rapid Arnis School eskrima: Re: The Animal vs. misrepresentations eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jay de Leon" Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:41:18 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Tuhon Bill's Live Blade Training To Tuhon Bill: Great post, pooped or not. Thanks for reiterating two points I made on my last post: (1) You proved anecdotally --anything past a structured (pre-arranged) training exercise involving a partner, chances are you will get cut. Whether or not you engage in such drills, whether for practice or demo purposes, is of course a personal choice. (2) You wrote--"What I do more of these days are drills in which the students use their own knives for cutting/stabbing practice." I agree completely. I mentioned several applicable drills. ------------------------------ From: "Kevin Davis" Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 22:00:32 -0500 Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #100 Ray, Northwest Safaris.?. Bearded guy...(can't think of his name either). I heard some interesting things but recently (1 year to 6 mos.) ago heard that he was not active anymore. KD > What happened to the HwaRang Do guy that was the training director for > Spyderco? At least he taught some Spyderco approved classes, dealt > with using, I think, the Delica, involved grappling, etc. I spoke with > him a couple of times, but can't recall his name right now. He was also > a firearms instructor, which is how I ran onto him... > > Ray Terry > raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Robert Klampfer" Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 22:44:20 -0500 Subject: eskrima: West Michigan instructors? I've recently moved to Grand Rapids, Michigan and am looking for an instructor of kali/eskrima/arnis in the Grand Rapids, Muskegon, and/or Kalamazoo area. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks in advance. Robert Klampfer ------------------------------ From: Georgios Christou Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 19:51:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Re: Running... Bladewerkr@aol.com wrote : > However, as I looked around the room I realized that > over half the people would be better to stay and > fight as running 2 blocks would completely wind > them. Please understand I am not throwing gauntlets > down as to anyone's aerobic capacity, I am just > curious. Well... Really don't know about that. My experience (and that's only from focus mitts boxing for 3 min. rounds) tells me, is that if you really can't run, then you probably have about 30sec. of fighting in you, before the excess adrenaline and emotions and your heart beating at 200mph catches up with you... So I'd rather take up the (much easier) road of run run run rather than stay and fight against somebody whom I would not be able to take down in 30 seconds... Just my .02 cents... George __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - Buy the things you want at great prices! http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Luis Pellicer III Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:18:59 +0800 Subject: eskrima: Mime-Version: 1.0 >Never experienced the dangers of El Segundo, so I'm >not assuming I know anything. I do have a cousin who >witnessed two killings in the PI while he stayed for a >couple of months. > >1. Two tri-cycle drivers bumped vehicles. Both pulled >knives and killed each other discussing the situation. > >2. During a fiesta an argument was settled with a >hammer to the forehead. > >Like I said, I've never been to El Segundo so I'll >take your word for it, but it does get pretty "real >enchilada" in the PI. Our arts did come from there >after all. > >As for doing things differently here in the states, >last time I had a fender bender, instead of pulling >knives, we swapped insurance info. Course, I'm not >from El Segundo. > > To add to this. 1. My wife and I witnessed a pro hit while having dinner from our window seat at a restaurant. They drove up, whacked the guy & drove off. Thirty feet from us. Later learned that it was only over a $1000 (or so) debt. 2. One of my Company's customers was whacked while leaving his business after office hours. They took him while he was in his car. Turned out that he was in violation of certain copyright laws and the people offended didn't want to bother taking him to court. They obviously thought that it was just easier to take him out. Unfortunately we just extended a credit line to him, which he availed of, right before the hit. Damn. Up to right before EDSA II this seemed to be a pathetic, common occurence. 3. A friend of mine was one of he former owners of a major stock brokerage house, was entertaining a foreign guest at a popular bar/club. The foreigner ogled another customers girlfriend a little too obviously. When they were leaving the club, the irrate boyfriend shot the foreigner from behind. Thankfully (if you can say that) : 1. The shooter used a small caliber with FMJ ammo, passed right through the victim with a very small hole. 2. The shooter didn't go for the head. 4. A former caretaker of where I have a beach house was involved as a third party in trying to resolve a local community dispute. Seemed like the parties involved resented his interference. He was driving to town from the house and stopped to give a guy a lift. He was shot twice in the head in front of his wife. The shooter didn't whack the wife, mistake, a witness. It was a set up. The shooter was later found floating in a river. No leads, no case. 5. Shots have been fired between members of a local yacht club, ON club premises. Happened more than once. Makes complaining about thier bad hull jobs seem kind of trivial. 6. A brother of a friend was shot at with a handgun at when he swerved into another cars lane one Friday night. He returned fire with his Uzi. The other guy 180'd and beat it in the opposite direction, AGAINST traffic. 7. On several occasions, holdup men/robbers found a different way to create a diversion as they were making thier gettaway. Chuck a grenade. The hell with who gets wasted. In one of the cases, the CO in the investigation came over to brief me on the incident. The details are nightmarish. Your choices become dive for cover if available, or headshot before the pin is pulled. Provided you see it happening. Not much of a choice. Only four of these cases made the news. The list could go on and on... What is interesting (or disconcerting) about these incidents is that they DIDN'T happen on the mean streets. Six of them occured in what is our version of Wallstreet/Beverly Hills, Marina del Rey, and the Cote' de Azur. And they continue to happen. This isn't a case for licenced gun control, as all incidents but one, had unlicensed firearms or weapons involved. As a heavy civilian supporter of various LEA's, I get to see what goes on. As an active member of the pro-gun lobby, I get to see what hardware people have. (Short of a grenade launcher, anything can be licenced. Not that that stops people from buying "hot" hardware, or carrying launchers in thier cars for that matter. Seen it) Forget the knives, bolos etc., people coming over have to learn to be polite and mind thier own business because they will never know what may be incoming, incoming very fast. Over here you don't worry about the guy with the knife in the rough section of town who's out to prove how tough he is or wants your wallet. Chances are you can handle it. Run like hell or if you're cornered, shoot the SOB. And hope you're fast and accurate enough (with spare ammo) to take care of his buddies if you have to. Over here, you really have to worry about the people in the upper 10% who have attitude/psychological chips, and think they can buy their way out of whatever they get into, with the backup to do it. Chances are you WON'T see it coming. Aside from this, we're got a beautiful country. Friendly travel advice. Now back to the FMA.... ------------------------------ From: "Johnaleen" Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 02:36:28 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Animal in El Segundo Lincese to Learn ******But until someone has survived as many knife assaults as I did, don't tell me you know what works in a knife fight. I want to sit down and have a cup of coffee with the old man himself and ask him "how'd you survive?"**** Yeah. but..... that's what worked for you......... what i don't get is who has been telling you what works? What is going to work is going to be based on much more then what you have seen or done or someone Tells you to do..for each person, based on who they are individually. and yes some of your war stories and Techniques may help me or others learn new ways and give us options that we can look at but...... you seem to forget what Brings most people to an art or wanting to look into personal self defense.... all so your forget that most of our teachers are the same and have many experiences in life with saving there lives in real life situations as well as ourselves...... Personally... Here on the digest Especially... ****Those tweaks are what I want to know. Because my focus has never been art/discipline or tradition. But rather survival under a wide array of unpredictable circumstances.***** its all down to what suits you personally..... and ill tell ya something else.... just because something saved your ass in the streets dose not mean its going to work with all other people..... that's why we make the art we practice or the defenses moves we learn as our own...... once you learn how to do something, then its just a matter of incorporating it into what is best suited for you the individual...... You are not the only one with a wide range... again especially here on the digest and this is where your forum is and who your writing too, not to others in the streets..... here you find that most of us not only have the art but a lot of personal street stuffs and life stuffs as well. that gives many here even a wider range, as you say you never Focused on the art part..... Balance is the Ki for a lot of people.... Especially because of the Art.... The art part is based on a teachers experience... where did the concept of the art come from? Half the Knife attacks that have been taught to me or shown to me by others that have not only full life time experience as well as the paper are totally inappropriate for me, This is not because there not Valid but because they don't suit me and my body type and my personal handicaps...... But i learn them and i take what others teach me and all that i learned in REAL LIFE situations and keep them for others to look at for options.....i all so adapt what was taught to me to suit me and MY needs..... There OPTIONS and that's what TEACHERS and EDUCATORS are suppose to be there for. to teach you options and information and techniques so that you can apply them to the skills that you are trying to developed IE again your License to Learn.... now as far as me being able to make it to El Segundo that sort of bites and i am very disappointed right now because i am actually down there this coming weekend but i am booked for the AWMAI ( American Woman's Martial Arts Instructors ) teachers conference that starts this Friday to Sunday and then i fly out and have to go to Nevada for the set up and pre networking of the Victims Program that my organization is setting up nationally..... Now if your not doing anything on Friday or Saturday come on down to palm springs and see how the gals do things.....i would rather have a Cappuccino though instead of the normal coffee.. I am easily reached on my Toll free number regardless of where i am nationally... " Ms J Grins Wickedly " Well have Fun everyone i will be gone and have no PC accesses come tomorrow for 8 days as i am again traveling/training/teaching and growing as my life offers me the path to healing and positive change..... Keeping up the Fitness of my License to Learn.......... Ms. J bows deeply to you all........ Safe Journey Kids....... Ms. J. Castro CEO/F.A.T.E. 1-888-526-4626 Victims Program Facilitating Awareness Through Empowerment FATE@f-a-t-e.org www.f-a-t-e.org Ps... A note about Woman, the Arts and Woman's Self-Defense Hand Trapping The First beginnings for Trapping hands or hand trapping comes from Wing Chun. Trapping hands roots date back to 1645 Legend had it that in 1645 A Bhuddist nun Named Ng Moi Devised the system " Wing Chun " Then taught it to a young Girl Named Yim Wing Chun, Who after having been taught the system by Ng Moi she Quite successfully defended herself against a local bully who tried to rape her. ------------------------------ From: Todd Ellner Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 00:11:52 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: Running Mike writes: > This is a truly valid point. For us aerobically challenged semi-warriors > this is definitely a part of the decision making: should I run for the 2 > blocks and die tired (unless the attacker dies laughing first) or should I > conserve my energy for fighting with a hope of degrading the opponent to the > point where he is not going to give an effective chase. Thus it probably > makes sense to run but only after a one-punch-death-kill-move. > > In my (very limited) experience one may not always have to run very far - > just remove oneself to a more advantageous location where it is not in the > attacker 's interest to press on with his intent. I've got a triple threat here: overweight, asthmatic, and with a rebuilt knee that seizes up from time to time. I prefer to run but have to be realistic about my chances. ------------------------------ From: Todd Ellner Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 00:49:26 -0800 Subject: eskrima: Re: True But... Doc Fung writes: >>There are single, closed, one hand strikes which CAN kill. It's not >>reliable, but it is certainly possible and has happened. Break the hyoid >>bone. Hit the heart at the right time to cause ventricular fibrillation. A >>powerful blow to the fontanel. Burst the bladder. Rupture the spleen or a >>kidney (if the kidney doesn't self-tamponade). Every one of these is well >>documented in the medical literature. > True but so rare and unlikely that 99% of people could not do it to a > stationary target. Second, these events are so rare as to be news. These > events are about as likely as the guy who still attacks after a cop unloads > a full clip of 9mm into a perp. You really need to Stun and Run. You > should never know how effective you were because you should be outta there. I will have to respectfully disagree. If the bladder is somewhat full it is not that difficult to rupture. Likewise the kidney laceration (especially if a rib is broken) from a heavy blow from a strong man. I talked to the family urologist about these ones. He says he's seen them several times and that they are uncommon but by no means rare. Both are surgical emergencies. My sister, who's in her residency in emergency medicine, has already seen at least one broken hyoid bone. It's not well protected. It's not that sturdy. If it is fractured the injury is considered life threatening. Similarly, the ruptured spleens is not "so rare as to be news". Far from it. And you can bleed to death in fairly short order from one. The fractured skull, I will admit, is much less likely. There are certainly better ways to hit someone in the head. The ventricular fibrillation thing is rare. But it's dangerous enough that the heart punch was banned from boxing long ago. The "full clip of 9mm" is not that uncommon. According to the Annals of Emergency Medicine (I'll have to look up the exact reference) only about 5% of handgun wounds are life-threatening. If you don't interrupt the central nervous system, fracture the pelvis, or destroy the great vessels or heart so that the target loses blood pressure quickly a person can still hurt you with a surprising amount of metal in him. Furthermore, if one is using, say, ball ammunition there is a decent chance that bullets will go through and through with most of their kinetic energy intact. I refer people interested in such things to search the web or a good bookstore for stuff on wound dynamics. Stun and run is nice work if you can get it. So is not getting attacked. My problem with it is that reliance on such things can easily lead to overconfidence. "All I have to do is hit him once or twice. He'll stop whatever Bad Thing(tm) he's doing, and I can trot away in perfect safety." If that happens, wonderful. If it doesn't you are left in a confrontation you aren't prepared for. Better to be pessimistic, be prepared to have to take it further, and be pleasantly surprised than count on something and be left going "uh, uh, uh what do I do now?" when it doesn't work out as planned. ------------------------------ From: psm110 Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:36:31 +0000 Subject: eskrima: Re: Search for Rapid Arnis School Does anyone out there know of any schools of Rapid Arnis in the Sheffield or South Yorkshire area in the UK? P ------------------------------ From: Ken McDonough Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 05:42:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Re: The Animal vs. misrepresentations Mr. Marc "The Animal" partially stated: Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 7:46:31 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #101 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY of an email (top line, left justified) addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.