From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #121 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 7 March 2001 Vol 08 : Num 121 In this issue: eskrima: Rudolf and Ray's Comments on Kevlar and Spectra eskrima: Amerindo Ilmu Bela Diri Seminar eskrima: Re: Armour eskrima: Jacket protection. eskrima: Hitting the bag eskrima: Escrima in Ireland eskrima: Re: odd bits of kit. eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DAHLDP@aol.com Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 19:36:30 EST Subject: eskrima: Rudolf and Ray's Comments on Kevlar and Spectra I generally agree with both of you. However, several manufacturers produce Spectra gloves and glove liners for people using knives commercially. I own some and have tested them. They do fairly well against light to moderate slashes from most knives. A really sharp serrated knife gives them a lot more trouble. They are not especially useful against thrusts. The Hatch gloves I mentioned in my initial response contain a mixture of Kevlar, Spectra, and fiberglass (and perhaps some other fiber). Hatch tests indicate that Spectra is about three times as slash resistant as Kevlar by itself, while this blend (which some marketing guy decided to call "Powershield X-3") is about ten times as slash resistant as the Spectra alone. I have run several razor sharp knives over the liner portion of the FM3500 gloves and am happy to report that even Lynn Thompson's finest won't penetrate under average pressure. I don't know whether an extremely forceful slash would get through. When I wear out the exterior leather on this set, I'll perform that test. Dave Dahl (DAHLDP@AOL.Com) ------------------------------ From: Travis Frink Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 17:22:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: eskrima: Amerindo Ilmu Bela Diri Seminar PUKULAN PENTJAK SILAT MUSTIKA KWEETANG SEMINAR Now in our sixth year we happy to once again announce a seminar featuring Guru Jim Ingram. Pukulan Pentjak Silat Mustika Kweetang is composed of multiple strikes, takedowns, sweeps, joint locks, grappling/wrestling, ground, knife, and stick fighting. This system is a combination of finesse, applying physics, knowledge of anatomy, and how energy is directed. The emphasis is on economy of motion and efficient self defense. It is based upon maximum destructive output with minimum effort. Guru Ingram was born in Cheribon, Indonesia in 1930 and starting training in Pukulan and Pentjak Silat in 1937 in Jarkarta, offering over six decades of knowledge and experience in the art. Don't miss this rare opportunity! Location: AURA Martial Arts 541 Pawtucket Ave. Pawtucket, Rhode Island Saturday April 21, 2001 10:00 a.m. - 3:00 p.m. Cost: $50.00 pre-registered $65.00 at the door To preregister send money order or certified check postmarked by April 1st to: Fred Fullerton 32 Whitin Ave. Warwick, RI 02888-2014 Enrollment limited, preregister now the reserve your space! Participants are required to sign a liability waiver. No videotaping allowed. For more info please see www.angelfire.com/ri/Pukulan/index.html Salam hormat, Travis __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Bladewerkr@aol.com Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 21:07:58 EST Subject: eskrima: Re: Armour I have done some amount of slash testing using the following: a post set in the ground with holes bored for the attachment of dowel rods. I wrap the dowels in 2" of newspaper, then cover it with whatever I am testing. I have tried several kevlar gloves (those sold by Galds among them) I have also used blacksmith sides (the type of leather used to make welding gloves and aprons) the Kevlar might save a person from getting an accidental cut while frisking someone but with a slash, you're cut. A single layer of blacksmith leather will protect from a very small blade, (I used a Spyderco Delica) when you move up to An Endura or Military model Spyderco, Cold Steels Voyager and knives of that size you can cut through 2 thickness' of the same leather and cut pretty deeply into the newspaper. When you move up to a bigger blade anything I have used from a Cold Steel Tanto to an 8" Chicago Cutlery chefs knife cut well into the dowel. These are for a standard grip, reverse grip seems to be a bit less effective a cut. Also the type of blade configuration has a great deal to do with the penetration. The best (worse)? penetration/cut was with a clip point Bowie with a blade of 10" or more. I offer this simply to show that unless you are serious about armor everything else is just false security. Another thing we learned was that serrated blades have a tendency to hang in leather, sometimes even pulling the blade from the slashers hand. However, it makes a much harder to sew up cut. I have a set of gauntlets that were made for me, they are heavy leather on the outside, soft suede inside with strips of spring steel sewn between. these will stop a slash but its a toss up against a thrust. Under a denim shirt they are not noticeable. That covers your wrist to your elbow, but how many on the street are going to try to defang the serpent? I did some research on the old Spanish and Italian cloak and dagger methods...they seem to offer more use for a coat than anything else. The problem with them is that if you have time to take off your coat and prepare to fight you have time to make like a hockey player and get the puck out of there. Just my $0.02 worth Be Well, Bear ------------------------------ From: Ioannis REKLEITIS Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 21:29:28 -0500 (EST) Subject: eskrima: Jacket protection. A bit of trivia from my country, Greece. In the first half of this century, the people involved in the local underworld/illegal activities had their own music (greatly appreciated today), code of conduct, and also dress code. The most characteristic was the way they wore their jacket/suit. They wore it open, left arm in the left sleeve, and the right arm out of the sleeve (with the jacket resting on the right shoulder). In their belt (wide piece of cloth) they carried tobacco, matches, knifes and maybe a pistol. The empty right sleeve was such a trademark that a local cop, in order to humiliate them, was going around with big scissors and when he saw someone with the right sleeve off he'll cut it saying that: "as you do not need it I'll take that sleeve", thus making the jacket useless. From a knife fighting point of view this way of wearing the coat makes sense and has many advantages: 1) hides the right hand when you reach for whatever tool. 2) easy to take off the jacket (just shrug it off); also no chance to have it roll down your arms. 3) rolling the jacket a couple of times around the left arm makes a nice small shield. Other dress characteristics were pointy shoes with big heels, hat, and a sturdy cane. Unfortunately, in Canada where I am now I can not wear my winter jacket like this :-) Yiannis ------------------------------ From: Patrick Davies Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:21:21 -0000 Subject: eskrima: Hitting the bag Mik said: <> I tend to start kicking the bag softly as if to warm up the shin. By taking this approach I have been able to have good work outs on the bag. The old approach of kicking hard immediately usually saw quick bruising and a very short work out. After the work out I rub down my shin with my palms as if to move any water/fluid retention areas caused by bruising. This I find helps me recover quicker. Laymans terms. I have found more problems with the thai pads and the slapping of the foot against the pad has caused more pain recently. The original post mentioned knee problems and I might dare suggest that this is down to other faults. This was discussed last year and can be found in the archives and went into the use of shoe inserts to correct the stature. Where the pain is isnt always where the problem is. This is a problem seeming to occur with a lot of people in their 30's nowadays. With my knee problems at the moment I have picked up at the boxing gym while I rest and have found a stiffening in the wrists and so diligently wrap them each workout. Seems sense what Mik was saying for the ankles. Pat Aberdeen Martial Arts Group ------------------------------ From: colin.boylan@quintiles.com Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:31:49 +0000 Subject: eskrima: Escrima in Ireland Hi everybody, By way of introduction my name is Colin and I've trained in the FMA with Anton StJames in Plymouth , UK for a year among other systems I train in. I usually lurk on the list and this is my first post here. There's a guy called Dave Joyce who trains out of Galway in the West of Ireland. I've never met the man but have heard him highly spoken of. To my knowledge there's also a chap who teaches Escrima in Dublin. That's all the information I have I'm afraid, no contact addresses or phone numbers. If you contact the Irish Martial Arts Commision or surf the Irish Fighter Webring you should hopefully find out more. hope this helps, Colin Boylan ------------------------------ From: "Richard Killick" Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 10:03:09 -0000 Subject: eskrima: Re: odd bits of kit. What you find is that odd bits of kit get used in the mad search to solve the immediate problem. Case in point, condoms CAN be used to cover the end of your rifle barrel, to protect it from the wet etc. They can also be used to carry water etc. I understand that super glue has been used to seal certain types of wounds. When I was on active duty we had a problem with dogs trained to attack people in uniforms, which was solved by using a civilian cross bow. That way you do not alert the opposition that their security alert system has just been taken out. Takes a certain amount of nerve and you need a mate coving you with a gun just in case you get the Zulu shakes. I did hear that a few years ago someone was asked to do an assessment of a break in prove heavy door. After an hour trying to get pass the locks and using cutting gear etc, someone hit the hinge with a sledge hammer and the door fell over, much to the manufactures dismay. Regards Richard Killick. > From: rudolf@kimbel.net > Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 00:31:00 +0100 > Subject: eskrima: Re: Knife Wounds > > I read that the SAS carries tampons (the ones used by women once in > a while) along to stick into chest wounds. Might also be good for Stabs, > but I'm no medic, any comments? > > Rudolf. > ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 7:57:31 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #121 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.