From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #136 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Thur, 15 March 2001 Vol 08 : Num 136 In this issue: eskrima: Gunstock warclub (RE: Tomahawk) eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #135 eskrima: RE: Tomahawks eskrima: datu eskrima: Re: Tomahawks eskrima: Jeremy Bays' Tomahawk Question eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jeremy Bays" Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:43:37 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Gunstock warclub (RE: Tomahawk) This is called a "gun stock war club". The club itself was had from a hardwood (hickory was the most common) with a 3-6" blade of iron or other trade metal fixed to the end. This was used but many Northeastern tribes but the Iroquios were famous for using this weapon with deadly results. This would make sense that Chingachgook would use such a weapon as the Iroguios and the Mochicans were allies for about 40 years. I found one on E-bay with pictures if you want to see. http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1415607417 Thanks Jeremy Bays - member Loyal Shawnee, WhiteOak Oklahoma > Of course, in the next fight, he gets his comeuppance from a vengeful > Chingachgook (the father of Uncas, played by veteran actor Russell Means, > who I believe is a real American Indian), who uses a massive weapon that > looks like a cross between a kukri and a war club. Does anybody know the > technical name of this Indian weapon and what is it really made of? Or was > this a made-up (movie) weapon? ------------------------------ From: Mike Casto Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 11:04:42 -0600 Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #135 << From: "Richard Killick" Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 11:42:02 -0000 Subject: eskrima: Re: Serak stick work I have only just got the inside Kung Fu issue with Pak Victors article on curved stick work from Serak pentjak silat. Any one on the list train in this style? >> I train under Antek Ken Pannell in Silat Serak and have attended several seminars with Pak Vic. For the record, though, the curved stick isn't from Serak. It's from Soempat. This isn't clearly stated in the IKF article ... but if you look at all the captioning, it always says "Soempat Stick." The stick used in Serak is a straight stick. << After reading the article I still do not get how the curved stick works, IF I understand correctly the curved stick adds torc/power in to the blow not unlike the curved Ghurkha knife. Any one using this in full contact training? Is the curved stick a substitute for a curved silat blade or do people fight with pre curved sticks as well. Is a curved stick better for directing your opponent when you are at close range, I should imagine Serak stick fighting involves quickly closing down the opponent and putting them in to a position of disadvantage. >> I can't really address any of this since I've not had any training with the curved sticks. I know a little of the history. Soempat was developed by Pak Tisari Mardjuki who was one of Pak Vic's early Silat instructors. Pak Mardjuki had trained in Pamoer Silat and Silat Serak. Pak Vic trained in Serak, Pamoer, and Soempat under Pak Mardjuki. It was later, when Pak Vic moved to Holland, that he started training in Serak with his uncle John de Vries. Then when Pak Paul de Thouars moved to Holland, he and Pak Vic shared an apartment and Pak Vic began training with him in Serak. << Nice also to see Guro Bill's "them and us" article. It should be required reading. >> I would agree 100%. It was an excellent article. Regards, Mike ------------------------------ From: "Jeremy Bays" Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:52:02 -0500 Subject: eskrima: RE: Tomahawks Another movie that I saw some good Tomahawl play in was THE PATRIOT with Mel Gibson. Has anyone seen someone teach the historical applications of the tomahawk as a weapon? I have seen people throwing the 'hawks but that is NOT the historically accurate method of using a tomahawk in battle. Come on - think about it- if you have 10 attackers and one tomahawk to throw---you are dead meat. Thanks Jeremy Bays ------------------------------ From: mccfamily@plexis.net (Dan McConnell) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 17:35:52 -0500 Subject: eskrima: datu Do we really need to rehash the whole datu thing again. There are others with the same title who do not belong to the IMAF. I think that sometimes people get caught in all the politics. Politics is like having a big dog in your back yard, you can try to avoid it but sometimes you step in it everywhere you go. Actions often speak louder than words and ability is more important than the words.......or title. I could go on, but then again, sometimes less is more. :-) "Guro" Dan McConnell Modern Arnis of Ohio ------------------------------ From: "Parad1gm (not my real name)" Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:14:22 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Re: Tomahawks Yeah, I love tomahowks. Cold Steel sent me the Plainshawk by mistake when I had ordered the Assegi. I liked it so much that I kept it. It's great for serrada stuff, particularly since I like my weapons point heavy. Cory ========================================= Learn everything you can. Use everything that works. _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: DAHLDP@aol.com Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 17:57:09 EST Subject: eskrima: Jeremy Bays' Tomahawk Question I once brought a couple tomahawks and axes to a class with Guro Inosanto and asked if anything like them was used in the FMA. He responded positively and said that in addition to the normal manner in which most of us would hold such weapons, he had seen a couple unusual grips used. In the first grip you hold the tomahawk or axe near the head, with the shaft protruding out of the top of your fist and the blade facing forward directly underneath your fist. The shaft can be used like a stick at normal range. At closer range, you can slash with the forward facing blade that is beneath your hand. Although you give up the cutting power generated by gripping the shaft at the opposite end from the heavy head, you supposedly gain speed in manipulating the weapon. The other unusual grip was to hold the tomahawk as you normally would, but slide your hand up just under the head. I didn't have time to ask the philosophy behind this grip, if one exists. I would like to emphasize that Guro Inosanto did not express an opinion on the merits of either of these grips and I did not have enough time to ask the circumstances under which he had seen them. However, I thought they were interesting because (as a Gringo) I had always assumed that there was only one way to hold and use a tomahawk. Dave Dahl (DAHLDP@AOL.Com) ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:59:10 PST Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #136 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.