From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #160 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sun, 1 April 2001 Vol 08 : Num 160 In this issue: eskrima: Open forum eskrima: Moro-mor and Doce Pares Laguna eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #157 eskrima: Datu[k] in a Malaysian context eskrima: Mime-Version: 1.0 eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "hudginsg" Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 12:59:09 -0600 Subject: eskrima: Open forum Ray Keep it up. If this was a governmental operation, I would be screaming that there is no right to censor. But this is a private forum, started and moderated by you. Just as you would ask some one using foul language or in appropriate behavior to remove them selves or quite down in a restuarant, bar, business, public library etc. -- you have that right. The patrons expect a civil and informative forum .. you help give us that. Now if you had moderated out someone's post as to who was on the "grassy Knol in Dallas Texas on that fateful day, I would say you went to far, but I concur with your right to moderate. Some folks want to get the last word when all that is constructive has been spoken.... so keep on. I want to thank you for the service that you provide. ------------------------------ From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 20:05:04 EST Subject: eskrima: Moro-mor and Doce Pares Laguna First of all thanks to ArcBishop EBrook to point some reason why many of you are not familiar in other FMA other than Visayan. We (FMA'tist) from Luzon FMA are also had quite a number already. To mention some of them like Proffessor Vee of Arnis Kuntaw, Bahala na Escrima of GM Leo Giron, GM Estalilla of his Kabaroan Eskrima, Amante Marinas of Pananandata, Baltazar "Bo" Sayoc of Sayoc Kali, Arnis Tulisan Caballero with Raffy Pambuan, Tulisan Eskrima with Ner Reodica, GM Meliton Geronimo of Sikaran and I (Gat Puno Abon) of Garimot Arnis consist of Laban Tulisan, Cinco Teros, Tres Puntos, Siete Colores Arnis, Laguna Doce Pares, Aetas Lumad, Harimaw Buno of Mangyan Tribes and Hilot the Native Filipino healing arts. << This ties in so nicely to the points that i have made in the past on this digest. There are numerous other styles and variants on the FMAs that we in the West have not heard of or tapped into. That is why I have insisted that terminologies and title usage must take into account cultural considerations. We, in the West have been exposed primarily to the Visayan versions of the FMAs for the most part. The arts of the Northern & Southern Regions are still shrouded in mystery for us. >>>There is a lot more to be explored and learned. We have the pleasure of having Gat Puno Abon Baet on our digest. He is very knowledgeable about several Northern styles of Arnis and the Laguna styel of Doce Pares. Maybe he will share some of that histroy with us. Doce Pares in Laguna founded on early 1800's late 1700's by a groups of Grandmaster of Arnis and Eskrima from Laguna and challenge various province including Batanggas, Cavite, Morong (now Rizal), Tayabas (now Quezon), the main purpose is hold a Grandmaster testing arena every Holly Friday in "Mount Banahaw" the secret place where Arnis Matches is hold without any rules. Rules are your skills VS his skills. Most of them are well known fighter. Just for the sake of of the arts, they decided to track membership whom participated in Testing Arena that some of them is done inside the Cave that they called Kwebang Banal (Holly Cave). Is mysterious 12 Apostles stories and this Cave that they talking about, because in Banahaw has a lots of Cave. So you really dont know which one of them will be used as the Arena of the Doce Pares. Anyway I never heard about trap aor nay pointed stick waiting to attack or anything like that. It is really you have to go inside the Cave with your Stick and one or two is there already waiting for you and you have to face them one on one or two VS you. Is a ultimate test to your skill. They would not kill you, after you passed to the test you have awarded with the Doce Pares Awards. thern yuo sre eligible to psrticipate to the next Fight VS other winner until you will be proclaimed "Hari ng Doce Pares" (King Doce Pares). According to Grandmaster Pedro Magracia (84 yrs old) and Modesto "Moody" Madrigal (74) classsmates of my Dad GM Felipe "Garimot" Baet (deceased) in Doce Pares System is taught by GM Julian "Panday" Madrigal, Egme "Daite" Dailo, Felesisimo "Felis Pulis" Dailo are 2nd generation Doce Pares Grandmasters. Theirs account that my Dad (GM Felipe "Garimot" Baet won three consecutive years of Hari ng Doce Pares winning all of his matches in Banahaw on 1955-56-57. Also He also known un-disputed "King of Seven Mountain" a legend "Hari ng Pitong Labundukan". Doce Pares of laguna Today survive from Grandmaster Moody and Pedro Magracia and in the Doce Pares of Laguna are taught in the US part of the Garimot System by your "lingkod" Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet. >>> Perhaps there is a person skilled and knowledgable about the various Moro Moro styles... the real question beyond that personing sharing information with us is will we listen? Well said, EBrook. Salamat Uli/Thanks Again, Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw 'Buno" Federation Hilot Research Center USA >>ArchBishop EBrook >>2nd Chief Teacher - Surge Eskrima USA _________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ From: Jesse Manibusan Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 18:13:52 -1000 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #157 All: thanks for the responses. They are all helpful. Being from Hawaii, this will be my first opportunity to train with another school or attend a seminar...or meet with other FMA practitioners and do more than just talk about the arts. > From: Gerald Boggs > Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 20:31:43 -0800 > Subject: eskrima: re: FMA in the d.c. area > > Try visiting http://www.trainingblades.com/ They have information and > links to many of the FMA schools in the greater D.C. area. They also > have a seminar listing,. As does a couple of the local schools you can > link from their page. I myself am a student of the Trident academy > located in Dale city, Va. I would recommend Trident to anyone. > > ------------------------------ > > From: "Mike aka Shugendo" > Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 13:14:44 -0000 > Subject: Subject: eskrima: FMA in the D.C. Area > > Jesse - > > Check out our web site for an updated list of events and training info for > the Washington, DC area. > > Michael A. Krivka @ Martial Arts Koncepts > Home Page: http://www.martialartskoncepts.com > Email: shugendo@hotmail.com or koncepts@bellatlantic.net > Phone: 301/963-6520 > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: Melvin Lee Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 09:01:02 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Datu[k] in a Malaysian context First off, this is not intended to be critical or offensive to any high level FMA teachers who have been awarded datu titles by their instructors. I have but the highest regard and respect to the founders of certain FMA styles who choose to award the datu title to those who have achieved a high level of skill in the style. However, from previous discussions, we are all aware of the fact that the title 'datu(k)' has varied interpretations in South East Asia. In the present Malaysian society, a datuk title is not indicative of mastery of an art but moreso of political and social status. The use of the title has evolved, just like the knighthood which was once awarded to valiant knights by English rulers is now awarded to a homosexual,flamboyant, piano-playing pop music entertainer. Anyway, there was a minor controversy recently in Malaysia with regard to the validity of the datu title awarded by a 'Filipino Sultan' to a few Malaysian citizens. This prompted the political columnist of a local newspaper to write the following commentary which i reproduce below for your reading and learning pleasure: >>>>>>>>>>> The Sunday Star, March 25, 2001 On The Beat Datuk or saudara, we're no different >>>>>>>>>> FORMER Deputy Prime Minister Ghafar Baba was just plain "Encik'' until some years back when he was awarded the title "Tun.'' So was former Penang Chief Minister Dr Lim Chong Eu, who is said to have politely turned down offers of state and royal honours until his retirement. Years ago, the title of "Tan Sri'' was awarded only to retired senior politicians, judges, civil servants and prominent businessmen who had contributed immensely to the nation. These politicians were not just retired leaders but statesmen whose views were highly regarded. These days, many of the serving Mentris Besar, Chief Ministers and Cabinet Ministers are Tan Sris. Then, there are young businessmen and politicians, some only in their 30s, who are already Datuk. To the protocol-conscious, such honorifics may mean much but to ordinary Malaysians, they are mere words. Most of us untitled mortals feel that precious time is wasted at public functions when titled-VIPs are accordingly addressed by every speaker. Last week, the controversy over the status of Datukship awarded by the Sultan of Mindanao resurfaced. A Chinese magazine, Special Weekly, and several people had sought out the MCA Public Services and Complaints Department to voice their concern after reading some congratulatory notices for recipients. Department head Michael Chong said several people called to say they were pulling out their congratulatory advertisements in local newspapers on finding out that the awards came from the Sultan of Mindanao. It was reported earlier that the recent investiture ceremony of title conferment to 23 Malaysians here by the Sultan of Mindanao had raised questions on whether this "Datukship'' were recognised in Malaysia. Minister in the PM's Department Datuk Dr Rais Yatim, in reacting to press inquiries, said there was no status for the conferment of titles by the Sultan of Mindanao as it was not a sovereign state but part of the Philippines. In short, the title is not recognised--although Dr Rais was too polite to say so directly. In 1999, the Society of Royal Datuks of Selangor stated that it would not accept as members those who received their titles from the ruler of the self-governed region in the Philippines. Recommendations for local awards are made by the Rulers, the Mentris Besar, political leaders and community heads. Sought-after awards, the highest being "Datuk'' at state level, are made by the Rulers and the MBs. No one should cast any doubt over the award of such titles. They are part of the country's rich cultural heritage. This practice is not confined to Malaysia. Other monarchies, notably the UK, also confer awards on their citizens. Before independence and the formation of Malaysia, the sultans were the sovereign rulers of separate and independent entities. Some of them can trace their lineage backt to over a thousand years. Keeping their traditions and customs, the mainstay of Malay culture, is increasingly important. Malaysia is even more unique because apart from a King, every state has a royal ruler with the exception of Malacca, Penang, Sabah and Sarawak which have a Yang di-Pertua Negri (previously the Governor). For these reasons alone, the authorities should take steps to protect the good name of the Rulers and to ensure that there is no abuse in giving out awards. It is a mockery when some states are allowed to give out up to 60 Datukships at one time. Recipients must regard such awards as a privilege and not a political or business right. They must remember that there are many social workers and anonymous philantropists who may have made bigger contributions to society and the nation but prefer to remain unknown. These people seek no award or recognition because they believe in giving back to society and helping their fellow man. But there are those among us who have become obsesssed with honorifics and take offence when addressed without their titles. Lest we forget, whether Datuk or saudara, we are all human beings--no one should be accorded priority treatment on the basis of an award. Even more absurd are reports of businessmen who purchased doctorates in philosophy (PhD) from a dubious university located on a Pacific island. These businessmen, who have never set a foot in a university, suddenly have a "Dr'' before their names on their calling cards. The joke about this Pacific island university is that it has no Bachelor or Masters programmes--only PhDs. Then there are corporate figures who enrol themselves for short-term courses in some Ivy League American universities. Without telling others that they were in these campuses for a mere six weeks, presumably during summer, they proudly proclaim themselves as alumnis of these famous colleges. At the same time, there are Datuks serving jail sentences but who still keep their titles while at least one prominent businessman Datuk has become a fugitive. In our pursuit of honours and recognition, many of us have forgotten the importance of humility--that it is more honourable to be recognised than to search for recognition. Wong Chun wai ===== Mel peg8109@yahoo.com Penang Malaysia __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get email at your own domain with Yahoo! Mail. http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/?.refer=text ------------------------------ From: Luis Pellicer III Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 09:18:16 +0800 Subject: eskrima: Mime-Version: 1.0 >To me that is their choice to call their system, its really does not matter >what is the system is called, if the techniques and strategies are >effectives, I think as equal as the other arts. > And colloquially, moro-moro is a term used to mean a "set-up" or event that is "fixed". ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 19:39:30 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #160 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.