From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #175 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Tues, 10 April 2001 Vol 08 : Num 175 In this issue: eskrima: Guru Steve Plinck eskrima: Garimot Seminar Review eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #174 eskrima: Daily Work Out eskrima: Re: Eating Aiki :) eskrima: Re: Dos Manos Systems eskrima: Still a mover Re: eskrima: Still a mover eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 12:25:02 EDT Subject: eskrima: Guru Steve Plinck Howdy folks, Steve Plinck of Pukulan Pentjak Silat Serak is going to be holding a seminar in Castle Rock Colorado April 21st at 11 am at the Rec Center. Cost is $35 For for more information go to http://www.diac.com/~dgordon/schedule.html under guest instructor ------------------------------ From: Tim Rivera Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 11:30:34 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Garimot Seminar Review This is a short review of a Filipino Martial Arts seminar by Gat Puno Abon Baet. It was held in the town of Rolla, MO, just last weekend, April 7 and 8. I'm sure everyone on the list is familiar with Guro Abon's background, so I won't repeat it here. I will say that all of the praise that I've read about him is true. He's a very friendly, generous man, with a great sense of humor. He makes everyone feel right at home, part of the brotherhood of Garimot Arnis. Some of the best time spent with Guro Abon was during the rides to and from the airport, and over lunch and dinner. He is very knowledgeable about the theory and philosophy behind the arts, and extremely well versed in the history- he confessed to having a love of history, which was apparent as the dates rolled off his tongue while relaying the history to me. This seminar was essentially an introduction to the Garimot system of Arnis, Harimaw Buno, and Hilot. One of the things that was different (and enjoyable) about this seminar was that Guro Abon did not have a 'demonstration dummy' with him- he picked different people at different times to demonstrate the technique. Everyone got to feel the pain and effectiveness of the techniques he demonstrated. Guro Abon taught a basic Cinco Teros drill with locks, disarms, throws, and more locks. Also with single stick, he instructed us in the first three Moro-Moro dances in Garimot Arnis- Batalya Isa, Dalawa, and Tatlo. These forms were both beautiful and very fun. Guro demonstrated them with all the extras- twirling, jumping, even humming a little rhythm. :) He also demonstrated the application of the Moro-Moro, and how it can be done with one stick, double stick, stick and dagger, empty hand, etc. We were taught a few basic double stick drills and some associated footwork, which, admittedly, many of us had trouble with- mostly because of similarity to other drills we knew. But it was good, to break us out of old patterns. He also showed how they tied into the Moro-Moro. Guro also taught some basic knife defense, based on the Tres Puntos system, and combined the knife with the Buno for some really fun stuff. Harimaw Buno- great stuff! A lot of it was similar to what I have learned before, but very different. Close, but so far away. We learned the 7 animal positions, how they are used, and many throws and locks- mostly from Monkey and Tiger- the soft and hard. We were also shown the 7 strikes in a flow, along with several applications of the actual flow. With all that we were taught, Guro Abon demonstrated just as much, to give us a feeling for the Garimot style. He demonstrated fighting against multiple opponents, use of the balisong, flexible weapons, and the lubid- which was very impressive. Also he demonstrated some classic Cinco Teros, 2 kinds of Siete Colores, and some of the Laguna Doce Pares system. What amazed me the most, personally, was Guro Abon's largo mano technique. That man is slippery- you can't touch him. He'll move just enough to let your strike pass by, and beat the hell out of you with his counters; even more amazing, he can hit you before you hit him, let your strike miss, and still follow up some more. So you've just traded him one swing that got nothing but air, for 5 or 6 solid strikes to the head and body. Simply amazing. Finally, in conclusion (I've gone on about this for so long, but i could go much longer- i must be that empty can, or empty barrel as Pak Herman Suwanda always said), I've found another love in Garimot Arnis. The material is great, and Guro Abon is an excellent teacher. If any of you get a chance to train with him, don't hesitate. tim ------------------------------ From: GatPuno@aol.com Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 12:47:34 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #174 Jeff, Its is nice to know that you are very comfident to your claimed. I just want to clear things up to your words, and would like to point it out small portioned of it. I have no doubt, that your system will work to your point of view in combat.. but let put the word IF..IF word make a lot of difference to your claimed. Well let me start to answer some of the point to your own words. >> Since I was one of the participants/instructors on the tape, I'll try to >> give a little bit of insight to to the Dos Manos System. When the DMS >>system was organized, most people just weren't using two hand on the stick >>and the many system were, and still are, discussing the FMA as a bladed >>style **some are blade only**...but unless the FMA style is BLADE ONLY, >>there is no reason whatsoever not to use two hands on the stick. First of all, let me ask you this when DMS developed? Because FMA is not developed yesterday is developed centuries ago. FMA is bladed arts oriented as well as stick oriented martial arts, prior to the DMS developements I would say. FMA has single handed weapon and double handed weapon, example of single handed weapon, itak, sundang or bolo. stick variants of its sizes between 4 inches to 34 inches stick, and also variant of the weight. Sample of the Double handed weapon is the tunkod, Sibat, Bangkaw, and some bladed weapons, off course when the weapon is heavy weight is harder to manipulate by single handed, like the large Kampilan, Pamugot, etc. Just to mentioned some of this weapon. But it does not means that not exist prior to the DMS developments. >>The punyo strike with two hand are not dependent on the size of the stick. >>I would hate to fight someone with a umbrella in my hand, but if you let me >>have two hand on it an use the punyo, it has much more realistic combat >>applications. Its seem to me that you are saying non sense here, Punyo is effective only to a close range comfrontation regardless if is double handed or single handed weapon. If we are fighting long range you are a fool to used punyo and miracle to be effective. What you meant, double handed is effective than single handed? Non sense, single handed as effective of double handed punyo. again is depend who is using it or applying the techniques. >>I believe the DMS system has struck a nerve with people because opens up a >>whole new frontier in their stick work (blade work also if you pay >>attention). I think you are self centered if you claimed this. Well, I am sure you open a new whole different topic to discuss here. You should look around first before throwing something like this, you might hit someone sensitive like me. As a Filipino Martial Arts stylist, I dont believed that yoo are over confident to your system. >>The takedown with two hand on the stick are numerous and devestating. THEY >> HURT MORE! Why? When people use two hands on the stick for takedown, >>they use their bodies in the throw/takedowns rather than their arms. I >>personally don't like being the uke *bad guy!* on the techniques because of >>the torque that people can apply. One of the reasons that people like punyo >> hooking techniques it that they are more viable in a double handed situation >>than in single stick techniques. The two ribs that I have had cracked from >>the stick have NOT come from single-handed stick techniques -- they came >>from two handed stick techques. Your claimed is more HURT than the techniques.. Oh I would said its an insult to the rest of us. Did you experience being thrown for real with single handed stick? I think is the same effect on two handed stick its depend on who is applying techniques, do you think. Or DMS is superior than any system do you think? I dont think so, I totally disagree. I believed that single handed throw is powerful as the double handed throw depend on the type throws. >>Many of the chokes and locks that people are wowed with are variation of dos >>manos techniques. The transition from single-hand to double-hand techniques >> make these possible. This transition is one of the most valuable skills >>that fighters can learn. People have already discussed the differend hand >>positioning. I have no doubt that the system is probably worth learning. Nice to know that, other FMA also have recieved also a tremendous wowed from different crowd. Its is again depend on what system you favor. >> I probably missed touching on several of the comments made. I would >>suggest that you visit Hock's website at www.hockscqc.com to get more >>information. A list of seminars in your area is listed at: >>http://www.hockscqc.com/seminars/index.htm. >> I'll also try to answer your questions. Have a great day and keep training! >>Jeff Allen >>drjeffallen@home.com >> Dont get me wrong, I dont measured the techniques and knowledge of Hock, I just want to point too you that you are running to fast not realizing you where going to end up. Do you watch the Dog Brother Tape that cover double handed VS single handed weapon, many of the fights is won by the single handed grip. Its really nice to watch, to open a new ideas. Again, I am not critizising your ability, and the System, I just speak with my philophy and principles. Gumagalang ng Lubos/with Respect Gat Puno Abon "Garimot" Baet Laguna Arnis Federation International US Harimaw Buno Federation Hilot Research Center USA ------------------------------ From: EGJundis@aol.com Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 13:04:07 EDT Subject: eskrima: Daily Work Out Today: 30" Standing Meditation 30" Nei Gung and Chi Gung Exercises 30" Capoeira solo practice (mostly kicks and low level movement work. Imagine doing all of you footwork drills where your entire body is below waist level and you use your hands to help you move as well. Tomorrow: 30" Standing Meditation 30" Nei Gung and Chi Gung Exercises 1 Hour Serrada 1 Hour Sparing Drills 30" Empty hand sparing or grappling (depends on how my training partners feel) Elrik =) ------------------------------ From: EGJundis@aol.com Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 13:39:44 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Eating Aiki :) Rey, thanks for posting that article. I think it points to the fact that at a certain point we must make the arts our own and at the same time there is great benifit in being an inheritor of a complete lineage. The Japanese arts which many of us in FMA commonly assocaite with regidity in practice and application also came from intense testing and inquiry into what works. What sepperates many FMA's from the confucian teaching structures IMHO is the initial focus of many instructors to find what works vs. this is the only way. Just a thought, Elrik ------------------------------ From: "Jeff Allen" Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 04:32:15 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Re: Dos Manos Systems Forwarded to the list from Hock Hochheim: In regards to DMS... I started teaching the military and police a course called SDMS years ago, which is single and double handed impact weapon blocking, striking and grappling. The "S" for single-hand grip, the "D" for double-hand grip. While the martial arts favor exotic names, the military/police community favors acronyms. I am pushing the limits by using the word "manos" with them, but so far so good. I taught DMS-or the double grip material to martial artists because they are usally familar with single-handed stick work, thus the recent Black Belt magazine article. Now though, I just teach what I call SDMS to everyone, the same course to all, mostly because our single-handed stick work seems to have evolved to a whole different kind of beast than what martial artists are use to. I have developed a few skill and progression drills I call the "Increasing 12's" that are so realistic and vicious that they are very well received by all types of groups. I have had one veteran martial artist tell me that one set of the Increasing 12s was like 3 years of regular stick training in 30 minutes. SDMS only resembles Filipino material at times. Again, I am not, and do not teach the Filipino martilal arts, therefore I hope not to offend or upset anyone. A lot of the SDMS material relates to riot control and fighting with rifles afixed with bayonets as well as disarming rifles and machine guns from enemy soldiers and criminals. This makes many citizens, soldiers and cops very happy and fulfills many areas that they are not finding in FMAs or the martial arts in general. We as a human race, have not evolved and achieved by stopping right where the guy in front of us stopped. Too often, we stop right where the Grandmaster stopped, and fear, intimidation and marketing has us marching in step behind him, not in front. The secure and true Grandmaster pushes you up front. That is his true job. Instead, we move on, improve, modify and change. My mission is to improve every group-martial, military, police with exchanges of their best parts. No one thing has all the answers. No one will. We can only keep trying. That is how the SDMS thing evolved and is still evolving. For a blatent advertising plug, (sorry) I am doing a 10 hour marathon SDMS course in Nashville area, TN, Saturday 12 May, for $75. I plan on covering as much as I can of the 10 level course. Major segments will be taught again at Marc Halleck's great NSA in Libertyville, IL in June. SDMS segments always appear in almost all of my seminars. I really am very proud of it. Thanks for the time, Hock www.HocksCQC.com Jeff Allen (drjeffallen@home.com) ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 15:44:07 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Still a mover A Howl etc: Luis wrote: > From: Luis Pellicer III > Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 09:26:03 +0800 > Subject: eskrima: Mime-Version: 1.0 > > >Is Manong Ben still actively teching? > > > >Ray Terry > >raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com > > > > Yes he is. Though he does so on a one on one basis, and has slowed down a > bit in terms of number of students. (He IS in his eighties) Still in good > shape though, we should all be so lucky at that age! As I commented at the time, last year GM Luna-Lema taught one day at the Inosanto Academy. I would say that "good shape" understates matters. The man still has one really quick stick! Crafty Dog ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 16:44:00 PDT Subject: Re: eskrima: Still a mover > The man still has one really quick stick! I assume that in this case, that is not a bad thing.?. :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 16:52:02 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #175 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.