From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #193 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Sat, 21 April 2001 Vol 08 : Num 193 In this issue: eskrima: Dirty tricks in Rugby eskrima: New discussion forums eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #192 eskrima: Charging for training ... eskrima: Guro Dan's Public Teaching eskrima: RE: Knife Sharpening Methods BOUNCE eskrima: Non-member submission from [ken jo eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Koblic" Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:13:31 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Dirty tricks in Rugby "In fact there was a small article in the sports pages about rugby players using the 'groin grab' to startle their opponents but one player was fined and soforth for taking this beyond that to a 'rectal probe' technique. (this is of course sick, but illustrates a 'dirty trick' kind of thing, taken beyond...)" The one problem with the groin grab in rugby is that it is usually your own side's groin that is within reach! The dirty tricks in rugby I am familiar with (and i deny ever having used any of them and you cannot make me admit it!): 1) Biting 2) Eye gouging 3) Strangling (in a loose maul or ruck) 3) Headbutts, knees and elbows...and of course punches 4) Raking (with the studs) Even legal moves can be devastating. I have seen guys laid out by a shoulder charge by the ball-carrier to the side of the head of the tackling opponent. Mike Koblic, Campbell River, BC ------------------------------ From: "Bill Lowery" Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 02:11:04 +0100 Subject: eskrima: New discussion forums Hi All, Just to let people know that I've added five discussion forums to my website (FMA Styles; Panantukan; Pananjakman/ Sikaran; Dumog/Buno;Hilot). The aim of the boards is to discuss the various subjects, pass on drills and tips, and to explore the lesser known aspects of the FMA, especially the grappling and healing arts. Please take a look and add your comments/information.labanbaston.cjb.net Bill Lowery ------------------------------ From: "Johnaleen" Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 22:17:27 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #192 Like i said i did not really want answers to all these questions because i know what the answers are for me. when you add intent to the equation then the realty's and the true realm of where money comes in to the overall huge picture. the value of things are different for what your giving back or getting in return... Do i charge money for my classes? yes but only from the ones that come to me and ask me to teach them, and offer to pay.. What do i do with the money they pay me? all the profit goes back into the FATE organization for Development and teaching of Victims.... ******Ever try to pay you rent with experience? **** Yes actually and i have lived mostly the past 3 years on trade and barter where i can, including paying my rent at times this way... again intent is very important... granted that's probably not what you mean but its still living by my experience.. i have always as well had to work for it.... from the time i was 12. i have worked for a living full time, but i was still able to give back something freely when and where i could without any other intent then to see positive change in the community, but that dose not mean i had to live by the buck and the intent of it... i have traded my skills and i have exchanged my knowledge freely where i can, and where i could not based on my basic survival needs, i made an income to cover my necessity's... based on your story's we did not grow up that differently ... and we were both faced with similar life circumstances... based on what you have said at least... so how is it that i see things so differently? well because no matter what, we are again individuals and not everyone believes the same way... it would sort of be boring if we did anyway.....:) Just think if we only had one style of FMA ... instead of the 90 or so we have now... all based on others seeing things differently... i would say that about half the people i have met in my life that have helped me do work voluntarily or have been involved with programs that i have either run or offered to the community, have had the intent of seeing positive change by giving back this way... and this has been my experience globally.... regardless of the type of government base.... the man you talked to sounds like one that had the other view... again this is back to intent... Yes there have been others that have tried to attack my intent or my motives, i have even been told i was nothing and all that i have done in my life was totally worthless and void of value by some because i was not paid for the work, but that is based on there ideals and what they believe is Value... again this is ok and dose not really matter to me because i know what my Intent is... and have my answers.. *** For example, look at the ads in Black Belt advertising to be able to train you to be a super SEAL commando killer street Who in their right mind wants to be a streetfighter?**** a note on the above lines... and please dont take it as an attack.... its just a point... Ask the kids that are seeing this... and the kids in juvenal hall.. or the ones that think its so cool to bash people around for fun... Its funny i just spent my morning in court watching these kinds of kids... there was a 17 year old boy there who was up for sentencing he beat the hell out of a police man so badly that he could not make it to court... do you know how he did this... he took the Billy club from the cop by doing a kick to his face and then beat the hell out of him with it. why? you have the experiences or so i have been told by you? have you ever talked to these kids? why are they doing it and where did they learn it? Do you think that the ultimate challenges and stick fighting in the park without gear is any of a better example to the commando killer streetfighter ? what do pictures of black and blue men with only shorts on and stupid grins on there faces tell children of today? or the way the martial arts is projected on TV? remember kids learn by what they see not what there told.. i am not really comparing the 2 myself personally.... i am again saying only to look at what we are teaching based on the examples that we set out... do you really think that there is that much of a difference to the kids that see both of them? not really.... there both examples of out and out bash your head in and be a killing street fighter... remember most the kids are not at the park watching the compatitions or understand what goes behind them and most are not taking the killer street classes in black but there buying the mags and there seeing the information freely on the net and on TV... unfortunately these examples are some of the reasons the normal average woman is not taking a martial art and she is being raped instead of protecting herself... its as well some of the reasons that woman that are being abused at home do not take an art or a self defense class... why take an art when there just going to get hurt more? ... again they are things that we teach our children and society by just being the examples.. yeah i have the data to back that up... but that's part of the overall program for FATE org... Food for thought: "And yet that macho myth sells classes, videos and equipment." I totally agree there with you..... and i still think that the examples that are set by all that do similar things are all giving the same message to society at large... its one of the reasons the government what's to impose so many regulations on martial arts organizations... maybe if there were more positive examples we would not have the government wanting to step in and govern us so closely... Ms. J... bows deeply and Prays that her intent is not miss-understood here" ------------------------------ From: Mike Casto Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 22:14:36 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Charging for training ... Well, I heard this mentioned by Guru Stevan Plinck and I agree with it. It's not the art that's being charged for ... it's priceless. It's the instructor's time and effort that's being compensated ... just like any other endeavor for which one is paid :-) Regards, Mike ------------------------------ From: DAHLDP@aol.com Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 23:30:43 EDT Subject: eskrima: Guro Dan's Public Teaching At least part of Guro Dan's public teaching career was at Malaga Cove Intermediate School on the Palos Verdes Peninsula. He used to carry a really beaten up, relatively short rattan stick to keep us in line. He was very well liked by the students but sometimes one of us would misbehave slightly, just to see if he would raise the stick. He never had to do more than that. I think I must have done that a few too many times because I don't believe I ever got better than a C from him (of course, being a crummy athlete probably accounted for most of that!) Dave Dahl (DAHLDP@AOL.Com) ------------------------------ From: "Buz Grover" Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 01:25:09 -0400 Subject: eskrima: RE: Knife Sharpening Methods I agree with those who suggest you beware of electric sharpening devices, including belt sanders. Nothing will mangle a blade as permanently as a power tool; the damage occurs in two major ways. First, power tools remove steel so quickly that you can radically alter a knife's lines in short order. With thin kitchen knives these errors are somewhat correctable, but with knives made out of thicker stock you can quickly run out of thin edge to resharpen. Second, and more insidiously, power sharpening methods can heat a blade up quickly that then cools slowly, destroying the blade's temper. Any edge you put on a blade that's lost its temper will last 'til you slice your next tomato. I don't mean to imply that power tools should not be used, rather, you need to know what you're doing before using them. If you can put a good edge on a knife using a stone or ceramic sharpening sticks then you know how to draw a blade across a sharpening medium at the right angle. If you can't edge up a knife on a stone, for goodness sake don't try doing so on a belt sander. Like anything else, learn the gross mechanics and basic techniques before trying something more advanced. Also wanted to mention an old chef's trick: if you ever find yourself needing to sharpen a knife without the right equipment at hand., go rifle the kitchen for ceramic plates, crocks, pitchers, etc. Turn 'em upside-down and look for areas that were not glazed. Drawing a knife backwards over these non-glazed areas at the right angle will allow you to put a functional edge on a knife. The higher quality the piece of ceramic the finer the edge you can improvise. For my money, however, you can't beat a Multistone for establishing a working edge, a decent sized piece of Arkansas hone stone for laying down a fine edge, and a good pair of ceramic sharpening sticks for occasional touch ups. Regards, Buz Grover ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 8:38:12 PDT Subject: BOUNCE eskrima: Non-member submission from [ken jo Forwarded message: From: ken jo Subject: mang ben To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Ray: Have been an avid follower of this digest for a long time now, have to give it to you for providing a good venue for discussion on FMA issues... just wanted to let you know that Grandmaster Benjamin 'Mang Ben' Luna Lema has just celebrated his 82nd (!) birthday last 19 March 2001. Mang Ben is living proof that one can never underestimate the strength, the speed, and the skill of an old kali warrior. A friend of mine was lucky enough to train with him in the Philippines just last month and he swears that with Mang Ben you can really feel the difference in how true,battle-tested warriors conduct themselves in a fight or in a class - at his age, Mang Ben's movements are still fluid, crispy and to the point... You know that with one false move, you're dead - game is over. Our group have studied martial arts since we were youngsters, around 5-7 years old (we're in our late twenties now) - tang soo do, japanese karate-do, modern arnis (yup, under Grandmaster Ernesto and Remy Presas), judo, aikido, back to tang soo do, a variance of "old" doce pares in Mindanao, taekwondo, boxing and LSAI/LESKAS (Mang Ben's style) in that order... We have also participated in full-contact unarmed tournaments (with and without armors) and we have also experimented with full-contact armed (sticks and wooden knives) sparring [with and without armors - those Dog Brothers are crazy :-)] Have to admit that when we saw a senior instructor of LSAI/LESKAS move in a special demonstration, we were blown away - we thought that we knew, more or less, what FMA was all about and then (!) there was this one style from Panay that has all the components of the art... NOW, we have an idea of what we have been missing all those years! :-) So, back to square one - we're students again! :-) Kenjo P.S. Thanks for the space. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 9:00:22 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #193 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.