From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #200 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Wed, 25 April 2001 Vol 08 : Num 200 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Dog Bros. again eskrima: Had enough of Hock Talk eskrima: Re: thank you Loki Jorgenson eskrima: fun Re: eskrima: Re: thank you Loki Jorgenson eskrima: Re: Ignorant gangbanger who intimidates women eskrima: Re: Hock eskrima: Domestic violence deaths eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jesse [IHF] Greenawalt" Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 14:55:01 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Dog Bros. again Ms. J wrote: >My 10-year-old student Marco asked me last night wile we were doing a >progressive set of Joint-stick locks with the class I find a dichotomy here. Students that don't read an article describing pictures seen as questionable, yet mature enough to work sticks & joint locks... >Because I have had enough broken bones and torn ligaments and injuries the >past 3 years in the field with dudes in the arts to know I don't need to >spar without gear. and I will NEVER ADVOCATE DOING OTHER THEN THAT and any >that do I will say the same thing IT JUST DOWN RIGHT STUPID.. >Ill say one more reason its stupid. because latter in life when your >creaking and your joints hurt and your crawling out of bed because you spent >time being whooped on for the first 25 years of your training and you did it >without gear so you could taste the realty's of pain. >You can think about how you will be crawling out of bed each day this way >for the next 20 years of your life. But the rate of debilitating injuries in DBMA is lower than many sports. Judo, for example, has TONS of torn ACLs & MCLs to its credit (so do skiing and basketball, non-contact sports, for that matter). Karateka often have the same kind of accidental breakages, as do TKD people, Wushu people, etc... It's part of the contact game. AFAIK, for the majority of contact stickfighters, enough gear is worn to keep from sustaining long term injuries - joints are usually covered by SOMETHING. Skin heals. Bruises heal. That's surface stuff, and doesn't lead to the kind of infirmity you're describing. Torn connective tissue and broken bones don't happen as much as you think. Also, remember that these guys aren't ALWAYS doing this, any more than boxers/Judoka/etc always go full tilt - like periodic competition or shiai, it's the test they train for, not the training itself. jester ------------------------------ From: Kendal Coats Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:04:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Had enough of Hock Talk I've been reading everyones thoughts on Hock and Feel the subject has been explored adnausium. Hock, and I too know him, is a Master of Marketing. If you ask him if he teaches MArtial Arts or FMA, he will openly tell you NO. He teaches fighting, survival, combat and law enforcement techniques. He directs his adds to the Weekend Warrior, Soldier of Fortune, types, with lines like "In the Shit techniques". His market would not buy his stuff if he said that a martial arts system was complete or did not have any weaknesses. He's selling his stuff, not those who taught him, but "his". We each take what our teachers taught us blend it with our experiences and make baasically our own art. Many of us honor our teachers by teaching thier style and systems, but we each escentially practice our own arts. I will not speak about my personal feelings about Hock's marketing, or the material he teaches. Except to say that I believe we would have less trouble if he had completed his training, but after he left teh Police Force he needed to make a living, and this is what he chose. I think we have given it a little too much attention, since, unless your ready to issue a challenge, your words will not change what he is teaching or saying and will fall on deaf ears to the SOF guys who buy his stuff. Let him have his nitch and let your art and the merits of your teachings speak for you. How many "ex-SEAL" ultimate combat adds have we read and laughed to ourselves? Hock just hit home for many of us since he had a FMA background, and spoke poorly of the arts and teachers who made his art what it is. Lets keep on laughing, and speak of what we know, our arts. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: "Johnaleen" Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 15:22:20 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: thank you Loki Jorgenson meep........ thank you Loki J...... Ladies and gentlemen.... what i am saying is i have kids coming to me and asking me these questions... why? easy question... and when i have to spend extra time teaching them and educating them about why you do it? it is making my job harder... so i ask that you think about what loki said as well... and your all hitting me at once and i am doing my best to get all the negative and positive answered as best i can... i am not going out to the public and saying things about the dog brothers... i am here on a board that they are all on and based on what examples one of there members brought up for discussion with black belt magazine.. animal i dont want to have you as a bad example... i dont want any bad examples out there again it makes my job harder and .... its easy to change some of it on our own... just by taking extra care to do so... my kids are in my face over this stuff i have to have answers for them... and i see what is in the courts and what the realties are based on REAL life issues... because of what we do... Why do i bother to even do this or even bring it up.... ???????????????????? because i love my students and i want them to be able to deal with the realties of where they live... you have to understand this area for schools is not the best the kids here deal with a lot so much that i will not even allow my own 15 year old child to go to school here... and when the program we have goes public... i have to be able to face all the questions and all the realties based on the governments acceptability's for things to work correctly... if you all have things you want to add and you want to help with the program your welcome to be part of this with all the other organizations that have given support for what we are doing... and a real easy way to help is by thinking about this.... and realizing that i have kids asking me these things... and why do they ask? this is a discussion board and its relating directly to the teaching i do in FMA and what i will be doing with all the other organizations nationally over the next few years... dont you get it dudes i need help and if you want to help you can... sigh...... Ray please forgive me....... ms J....... ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 14:50:51 PDT Subject: eskrima: fun For the children... http://www.jimspartyhouse.com/fight.swf This little guy could kick Crafty's butt, big time... :) Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 14:54:32 PDT Subject: Re: eskrima: Re: thank you Loki Jorgenson > my kids are in my face over this stuff i have to have answers for them... Maybe the answers are obvious. They may just not be the answers that you personally are comfortable with.?. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: "Roaring Girl" Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 18:32:23 -0230 Subject: eskrima: Re: Ignorant gangbanger who intimidates women > From: "Johnaleen" > First off Animal..... as far as i am concerned While I've only read portions of this discussion, I feel that whatever the issue, this is not the place for personal attacks or comments. (To be honest, I don't think anywhere is - being polite costs nothing). I do not believe *anyone* has "the ultimate answer", anymore than anyone has the "ultimate fighting art". I have found Mr. MacYoung and his wife willing to share information, willing to answer questions, and more important, willing to *be questioned*. They do not force their opinions on others. Although they may discuss them vehemently ;), they are (again in my experience) polite about it. They express themselves in a straightforward, realistic, simple manner, with no attempt to "make things pretty", apologise for their opinions, or pay lip-service to whatever the current "hot issue" or trend is. I find that refreshing. I have never (in either email or in reading his writings) found Mr. MacYoung to be vaunting his hard-earned knowledge, or claiming any sort of omniscience regarding self-defense because of it. His frankness in saying "this is the person I was, these are things I did, and this is what I learned from the experiences" is novel and instructive. I also consider it a valuable source of primary material, given that I myself have been lucky enough to never have to deal with such situations. Ms. J, I am aware of your efforts to promote awareness and self-defense, and to use your experiences to try and teach others. However, everyone is entitled, not only to their own opinion, but to choosing the manner in which they seek to find that awareness. Some prefer to go full-contact sparring, with knowledge of the risks involved; others choose to explore spirituality or intellectual research; still others may believe that reliance upon laws, the justice system and LEO's will be sufficient. Some take what they know and share it with others; some keep it to themselves.We may argue for our own preferences, but in the end we cannot, IMHO, impose those preferences on others. While Ms. J and Mr. MacYoung may have serious disagreements on how to achieve particular goals, I don't think this is the place to "get into it". Whatever has been discussed in private emails should, presumably, stay private. While Ray (and members) tolerate many of the sidetracks discussions tend to take here, I for one prefer a *civil* exchange of opinions (and even disagreements). I have very little experience in self-defense, MA etc., but in my few years of training and being on this and other lists, I've found one can learn a lot if one is willing to listen...even if only learning to disagree. sorry for the non-FMA content, Ray, but I felt the need to speak. :) jocelyne p.s. all content is my own opinion, solicited by me, and possibly only worth anything to me. ------------------------------ From: Knife1@aol.com Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 17:33:58 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Hock Hello All - I have trained with Hock for a few years. I have found him to not only be one of the most proficient in the FMA that I have trained with, but he is one of the most down to earth and likable that you will find on the seminar circuit. If you have the time, go see him. Jim Mahan ------------------------------ From: "Robert Klampfer" Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 18:34:20 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Domestic violence deaths Somewhat off-topic but, I can't pass this by: Ms. J wrote: "average town USA year 1999 279 deaths due to domestic violence 50 % died by strangulation 25 % died by knife attack 25 % died of gun shots" There are over 10,000 municipalities and counties in the United States. Using your average yields 2.79 million deaths due to domestic violence in 1999. I find that figure extremely hard to accept. At 279 deaths in one year, your "average town" would be a domestic war zone. Richmond, Virginia was the "murder capital of the South" in the mid-80's at approximately 180 homicides per year, which included ALL homicides - domestic, drug-related, robberies gone sour, etc. Richmond is the state's capital and is larger than your average town. I'd like to know where you obtained your statistics. Additionally, your percentages add up to 100% but don't include beating deaths - fists, beer mugs, clothing irons, baseball bats, anything heavy and blunt that happened to be at hand, etc.; being run over by an automobile, poisoning, hacked to death by axes, burning, and a few other ways. Rob ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 18:39:49 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #200 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.