From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #201 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Thur, 26 April 2001 Vol 08 : Num 201 In this issue: eskrima: DB debate eskrima: Re: my daughters (statistics) eskrima: Re: Sticks to the Head for higher Consciousness eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #197 eskrima: Dog Bros. & Full Contact eskrima: Hey wait a minute! eskrima: What does J. want? eskrima: Re: Fun Re: eskrima: What does J. want? eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael Milazzo" Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:19:49 -0400 Subject: eskrima: DB debate This discussion stems on 2 basic, and unfortunate principles of todays society. First, we, as a society, underestimate what our children can comprehend. They are capable of so much more than we give them credit for - -- so therefore they are held back by the society in terms of education and interpretations of events. Second, we have a nasty habit of projecting responsibility of our own actions, and the actions of our children, onto the nearest, easiest possible scapegoat (in this case, the Dog Bros)... pathetic, to say the least. It's about time we showed our children how to live, how to deal with seeing a violent TV show, movie, picture of a Dog Bro. bruise, and not react in imitation but rather understand what they are seeing and how to retort appropriately (if a response is even necessary). -- Mike Milazzo _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: "thook" Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:17:01 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Re: my daughters (statistics) From: "Johnaleen" Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 23:22:14 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: my daughters (snip) >they are the ones that are being raped abused and assaulted and the children that are watching there mothers get killed and abused >and raped.. they are the ones that i have the records for.... >average town USA year 1999 >279 deaths due to domestic violence !!! Do you have a link or reference for this statistic? http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/Cius_99/w99tbl01.xls Cell 28-F (Murder and non-negligent man-slaughter) (1999) = 15,530 Total for the US. >every police officer and townships say a woman should take an art and self defense but there not and those are the realities... >these stats i have there actual reports from the police stations... there reported crimes and many dont go reported because of >lack of evidence... >Ms J........ V/R, Michael ------------------------------ From: Georgios Christou Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 20:22:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: Re: Sticks to the Head for higher Consciousness Johnaleen wrote: > > we are talking about the impressions left to the > kids that dont see all the reasons and the ones that > dont understand it all because they have not had > the positive influence's and only the negative > ones... > > i just dont think that we take all this into account > and that as educators its our job as well to be sure > that we are not putting negative examples out > there unnecessarily, when things can be done to be > sure that its not left that way in the minds of > children that dont have the home life that allows > them the same opportunity your children have... > Ok, I agree somewhat, but I disagree lots. And I mainly disagree because I have heard you saying that "what about those other kids that don't read the article but only look at the pictures?" Or "We need to do something about it...". But as of yet, I have not read anything about what you propose to do about it. One thing would be to not allow this information out there. But then how do we learn? I live in an island in Europe most of the time, and I would not even know that stick fighting even exists if it wasn't for people like the dog bros. that make tapes like these. Another way would be to not allow minors to purchase tapes like these. But what about those who are adults, but still are "mentally minors"? Anyway, please don't think I'm criticising you for the sake of criticising. I would be very interested to hear some of the solutions to this problem. Thanks, George __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 00:22:58 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #197 From Marc MacYoung Johnaleen said >First off Animal..... as far as i am concerned you are nothing but an ex ganganger turned corrections officer that had nothing better to do then to sit and use what happened to him as a child and adult to further your fighting skills and to promote more organized gang activity's... Followed by again i realized that it was just you and your wife's inability to understand who i am... and why....... I bow before your omniscience and psychic abilities >and i dont not have to run to anyone to write my letters for me in my defense. and i have many that would do so my friend i assure you... Actually my wife reared up on her hind legs because she recognized your arguments veering off into the "femi-nazi PC cant" (her exact words) of "you couldn't possibly understand, you're a male." She understands. She's female. She is a successful career woman, youth leader volunteer and mother of four. She has worked with victims. She teaches martial arts. She co-developed our WSD program. She didn't agree with you -- from a female perspective. It was your initial ad hominem attack towards me for disagreeing with you, however that really set her off and brought her into the fray. Oh BTW, feel free to distribute any correspondence between us. What I say in private I will say in public and to a person's face. BTW, I also have copies of them too. << and i dont not have to run to anyone to write my letters for me in my defense. and i have many that would do so my friend i assure you... so mayhap i am not quite the Village idiot you portray me to be at times.... >> defense rests ------------------------------ From: "BILL MCGRATH" Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 00:19:20 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Dog Bros. & Full Contact Just as your muscles require resistance in order to grow, the various mental attributes of a human being also require resistance to grow. The problem a large segment of our society seems to have is in the development of certain attributes such as courage. The problem with courage of course is that it can not exist without danger. It is the overcoming of a danger that defines courage. No danger = no courage. I think the Dog Brothers do an excellent job of limiting that danger to reasonable levels (their serious injury rate compares favorably with any other contact sport), but to eliminate the danger entirely is to also eliminate the resistance your mental "muscles" need to grow. Young men need to test the borders of their courage and by testing those borders, expand them. I am in the process of writing a fantasy novel (swords, castles, dragons, etc). In it I use a line to describe a period in which a people are in a state of decline: "And the people became weak and fearful of strength, but rather than seek to make the weak strong, they sought to make the strong weak." I fear we are coming to such a place in this country. Where safety is held up to be the greatest possible good and courage, and the things that must be done to develop it, are considered relics of a less "enlightened" age. There is an old Latin saying the translation of which states: "To have peace, prepare for war". We could paraphrase that and say: "To have safety outside your training, overcome danger in your training." I hope the Dog Brothers and all the other "relics" on this list continue to keep a little danger in their training. Regards, Tuhon Bill McGrath Visit the PTI web site at: http://www.pekiti-tirsia.com/index.html ------------------------------ From: eknaus@att.net Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 05:26:25 +0000 Subject: eskrima: Hey wait a minute! Ms. J, What's all this nonsense about not wearing protection? As I recall, I was in many of the fights shown on "Real Contact" and I distinctly remember wearing a fencing mask and a pair of batting gloves. Just how much protection do you need, anyway??? To this day, I still wear the minimum - but it's something. Now granted, Marc, Jeff I., Arlan, Alvis, myself and several other DB's are not nominees for the Jet Propulsion Lab Hall of Fame but come on! To stereotype us as being too dingy to know know the "folly" of our ways means you completely missed the point of why we started this in the first place. Dog Brothers "Real Contact" is not an Eric/Marc/Arlan show - it is a message in a bottle to future stickfighters that inspite of the hype, you won't die trying this and you just might experience an evolution in your fighting skill - and your spirit. Eric Knaus ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:14:20 -0700 Subject: eskrima: What does J. want? A Howl of Greeting to All: First I would like to say that Ms. J. and I have exchanged e-mails-- she to assure me of no intent of personal attack, and I to assure her of no umbrage taken. We're cool with each other. However, that said, I think she is quite wrong and will say so. I confess surprise at Ray's response to the responses to what J. wrote. She had the ovaries to express a minority opinion, and heard back about it. What of it? I readily admit that I often drift far afield, but think I have generally accepted in good humor when Ray yanks my leash to bring me back to heel. I'm still in good humor, but Ray on this one I gotta say I disagree. It seems to me that the issues here are particularly pertinent, not only to all martial arts, but especially so in the case of something as dangerous as the FMA. Look at all the people who have responded. In no order: Animal, Bryan, Jocelyne, Robert K., Jester, Bear, Jamie, Allen E., Steve Drape, Doc Fung, Jeff "Sleeping Dog" Inman, Alvis "Hound Dog" Solis, and Loki "Tricky Dog" Jorgenson. (Apologies if I missed anyone.) Out of all of these the only one that struck me as inappropriate was, oddly enough, Ms. J's comments to Animal. I thought the level of the rest was quite high. Indeed so many of these posts were so clear in their expression, that my task here this evening is much, much less than it otherwise might be. The task is not as simple as it would be however were J. to write more clearly. I am reminded of a conversation within a girlfriend of many years ago. She was exasperated that I was not listening, and I exasperated at how long she took to get to the point. "But I have to talk!" she said, "Its how I discover what I think!" Remaining points, large and small, in no particular order. 1) Animal is not a Dog Brother. He has a nickname and we have nicknames, but it is a non-sequitor to conclude that he is a Dog Brother. 2) J. wrote: "***Mark Wrote****Burt Richardson, in the first ever articles to appear about us, **** "Are you trying to say that because he said this that he is indorsing what you do and advocates training without gear and doing full contact just in shorts? If that is what your saying then are you now going to say he still believes that? And because he wrote this article that he indorses you and what your doing overall when sparing in the park without gear on? "Because the way we run our sparing sessions and teach the levels of progressive sparing is based on what this man teaches.. In addition, I do not recall him ever saying to either myself or my business partner to spar without gear on. maybe i missed something in all the contact over the years between the 3 of us..." END QUOTE Uhhh, J.--- Burt Richardson IS a Dog Brother. His dog name is "Lucky Dog". Although Burt never went with the fencing mask, he was part of the After Midnight Group and was there the last day at the Rumble at Ramblas. (That's Burt's head that Eric is stepping on in DB #1 BTW) Although his path took him to movies and so he had to be concerned about showing up to auditions all dinged up or with a broken hand, he has always spoken to me about the value of his time with us and how it affected his path. Last I heard, he was requiring some sort of fighting experience of his instructors and fighting with us qualified. 3) We don't spar without gear. As has been discussed quite frequently here on the ED, in every article about us, and in most discussions about the merits of what we do, we wear fencing masks, street hockey gloves, and wrestling type elbow and knee pads. The Original Dog Brothers went with pre-Nader fencing masks, and a handful of the DBs have gone with batting gloves, which does qualify IMHO as going without hand gear. The only protection offered is against being grated by striking the opponent's fencing mask. I agree what we do is quite dangerous. Last week I learned from C-Sneaky Dog that he got a cracked skull in one of his fights. This is serious stuff. I agree it is not for everyone. 4) Loki is a kind, chivalrous soul. I do disagree with him that J.has unfairly been called out. She lumped the DBs in with some pretty nefarious elements, calls what she thinks it is we do "DOWNRIGHT STUPID", etc. 5) Concerning our intelligence or lack thereof, I note in passing that Loki has a PhD. in Physics, and is sometimes flown in by governments in South America as an economics consultant. Jeff Inman has a Masters (or is it a PhD Jeff?) in Philosophy or something like that (his thesis was on Nietzsche or some long dead Greek guy or something like that). Eric is a serious geek who wires up the internet to office buildings. Mark Lawson is a D.C. etc. etc. etc. Even though J. reads the ED she thinks Animal is a Dog Brother and that we fight without gear. She doesn't know that her teacher Burt Richardson is a Dog Brother. I am not sure of what we could do that we are not already doing. Maybe she could help us out by reading a bit more carefully? ;-) Anyway, its time for this little doggy to go to bed. Crafty Dog ------------------------------ From: "al sardinas" Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 08:36:04 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: Fun Thank you Ray and Jon Broster for posting the info about the below websites. I would say that it is the best action I have ever seen. Kung Fu , Karate, FMA, and the Matrix all rolled in to one clip! The only problem Ray is that you had to spoil it for me and say it is for the children! LOL. BTW, if you change the 3 to a 2 (....fight2.swf), you go to a page that has 3 hilarious contests of skill. http://games.sohu.com/fightgame/fight3.swf http://www.jimspartyhouse.com/fight.swf Respectfully, Al Sardinas Student of Garimot System of Arnis ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 6:32:34 PDT Subject: Re: eskrima: What does J. want? ... > heel. I'm still in good humor, but Ray on this one I gotta say I disagree. ... ... > one that struck me as inappropriate was, oddly enough, Ms. J's comments to > Animal. Then it sounds like we do agree afterall. Or perhaps you were really disagreeing with my statement that the little fight guy could kick your butt. :) BTW, from back in the early 80s I had always heard 'Inner peace through harder contact', and we worked diligently to gain that inner peace... Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 6:46:25 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #201 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.