From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #203 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Fri, 27 April 2001 Vol 08 : Num 203 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #201 eskrima: Hock's Upcoming Seminars eskrima: RE: Messages from Hanging Judges eskrima: San Miguel Eskrima eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #202 eskrima: FMA in Oregon eskrima: Dog Brothers Martial Arts Training Camp eskrima: Recommended reading eskrima: Filipino and other Martial Arts Training Re: eskrima: Recommended reading Re: eskrima: Filipino and other Martial Arts Training eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tenchi90@aol.com Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 16:58:31 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #201 "This discussion stems on 2 basic, and unfortunate principles of todays society. First, we, as a society, underestimate what our children can comprehend." All too true. Children are alot smarter than many adults realize. If taught properly they are capable of much much more when they reach adulthood. "Second, we have a nasty habit of projecting responsibility of our own actions, and the actions of our children, onto the nearest, easiest possible scapegoat (in this case, the Dog Bros)... pathetic, to say the least." "how to deal with seeing a violent TV show, movie, picture of a Dog Bro. bruise, and not react in imitation" Mike-san, you hit the hammer on the head. How did we get involved in drama in lieu of training issues anyway? That's my question to the post. Gary V. ------------------------------ From: "Jeff Allen" Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 05:26:26 -0500 Subject: eskrima: Hock's Upcoming Seminars Forwarded from Hock Hochheim's: - - - - - - - - - - - - Year 2001 Summer Seminar Schedule Seminar Themes: CQC- Hand, Stick, Knife, Gun Combatives SDMS- The Impact Weapon Course KNIFE- The Knife/Counter-Knife Course ARCHIPELAGO COMBATIVES- Pacific Islands BarSafe- Chief Gillette's Bouncer/Security/Bodyguard MAY SEMINARS May 5, 6 Wayne, Northern NJ - Hock's CQC & BarSafe with Chief Gillette Call Joe Reyes at 973-694-4348. May 12, Nashville/ Murphreesboro, TN - Marathon SDMS Day! Call Ron Goin 615-847-0931. Geared for instructorships and rank. May 18 Denton, TX- SDMS Friday Night Clinic. Call Jeff Allen at 940-323-9772 May 19, 29 Dallas/Ft Worth, TX - Knife Summit Contact Jeff Laun 972-395-2589 or Jeff Allen 940-323-9772 May 26, 27th Longview, TX - North East Texas CQC Camp. Contact Anthony Ogden at 903-757-4491 JUNE SEMINARS June 1 Milwaukee, WI. Law Enforcement and LE Trainers Only. Call Lt Dennis Davidson 414-672-3465 June 2, 3 Chicago/Libertyville, IL. Special SDMS & CQC. Call NSA Marc Halleck 847-771-5025 June 9, 10 San Antonio, TX - Archipelago Combat camp. Call Curtis Abernathy, 210-699-3686 June 16th North Little Rock, Arkansas, Call Bill Perkins 501- 912- 1631 June 23, 24 Kalamazoo, MI. Archipelago Combatives Call Tim Greenman and John Windsor 616-375-4425 June 27th Huntsville, AL Knife/Counter-Knife Call JR Reynolds 256-379-4022 JULY SEMINARS July 7, 8 Las Vegas, NV 1st Annual CQCMagazine Seminar, includes handgun range training and bouncer/bodyguard certification in Chief Gillette"s BarSafe. With Chief Gillette. Call Steve Krystek, 702- 647-4745. July 13, 14, 15 Wayne, NJ East Coast Archipelago Combatives Camp. Call Joe Reyes at 973-694-4348 July 20, 21, 22 Torrance area, CA- West Coast Archipelago Combatives Camp, Call John McCurry 562-602-0313 July 28, 29 Miamisburg, OH- CQC, Call Host Brandt Smith 937-866-4879 AUGUST SEMINARS August 4, 5 Austin, TX Special SDMS, plus Hand to Hand & Knife Combatives, Chief Gillette's BarSafe.Call Dean Goldade 512-218-9646 and/or Amos Hunter 512-452-8191 August 11, 12 Ft Monroe/Norfolk area, VA. 3rd Annual Knife Combatives Summit, Call Dwight McClemore 757-890-2228 August 18, 19, San Diego, CA - CQC , Trent Suzuki. 1-888-400-2074. August 25, 26 San Francisco Bay Area, Coast Guard Island being planned Check www. HocksCQC. com for more information Contact Chief Gillette at Gillette850@ aol.com for BarSafe info. Thanks, Jeff Allen (drjeffallen@home.com) ------------------------------ From: Allen Eastwood Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 20:17:08 -0500 Subject: eskrima: RE: Messages from Hanging Judges Ms. J writes: > 1) its better that i ask these questions now because my kids are asking > them in class... We are TALKING about KIDS.. this was never what > and adault > can and cant do but children under the age of 18... and the questions they > are coming to me for.. and asking me in a normal Class.. First off, I think it speaks rather well of the children that they know enough to come and ask questions. Even so, you, nor anyone else, can protect kids from everything in the world. And my own $0.02 is that we do not want to. Children have to learn about life somehow. The issue is not keeping them from seeing things, but putting what they do see and experience in a moral or ethical context and helping them to learn to interpret for themselves. > Note: in Marcs defense when they did come to me and ask me about it based > just on just the pics... i brought the artical out and read it > with them and > then incourraged them to read the things that go with it and > understand all > that goes behind the Pack and there events... See my comments below. I submit that you seem to not fully understand what Crafty and the DB's are doing or saying. > 2) i dont advocate one way or the other as the right way... regardless of > what my personal choices are You really had me fooled here. My impression is that you're very adamant that the DB are doing something wrong and stupid. > 11) many asked what Ms J wants?..... I wanted your reactions to > what i will > face in the press and overall in the communty... and i got a good idea for > sure... and i belive i know what i have to do next..Remember my > intent is to > be sure to cover these things before i have to face them with the > goverment > and press... i dont want things to be made worse because i dont have the > answers i need... Ms J. I'm not saying this to offend, however, I certainly hope you are a better speaker than a writer. If you are going to be facing the press, doing interviews, metting people, etc., then good communication skills are essential. > points for Animal and his Wife: Any issues you have between yourself and Animal, should remain so. That is, private and between the two of you. That you keep bringing this stuff up makes me suspect your motives. > if anyone dose not know yet or have the address... FATE organizations > Masters list is done on line and we have a new guest book... > http://www.f-a-t-e.org/Bios/masters%20Bios/Masters.html I've just come from your web page. I suppose I might understand better were you solicting involvement and support on the martial arts aspect in your posts...however, it appears that you are more interested in pushing forth your views and organization and criticizing. In that context, I'm beginning to wonder what you really do stand for. Your mission statement mentions a lot of thing, martial arts being the last. Also, I have to wonder, if you are teaching, what your bona fides are? Mainly because you do seem to really miss the point on a lot of the things the DB are doing. It's that I'm asking where you get your "understanding" from? Certainly, I've had other MA'ists tell me I was a bit crazy for going out and fighting at a DB seminar. But I never got the feeling that they didn't understand why I did it. And they've all tested themselves in one fashion or another that would be comparable. > ------------------------------ > From: Jivita@aol.com > It is of course the parents responsibility to monitor their > child's activity, etc., etc., ad naseum but FMA it’s our > responsibility and in our best interest to portray ourselves to > public (not just children) in the best possible light. If the > public isn’t getting it, then perhaps we need to look at > how the message is communicated and make a change. (Change the > method of communication, not the message.) Why it this > important….the repeated attempts at MA legislation comes to mind. I've had the pleasure of corresponding, talking to and taking seminars with Crafty. Each time I've been very impressed with his message and delivery. I personally don't think that message needs to change in content or delivery. After all the other part of communication is listening to the message. Perhaps Ms. J would get much more understanding if she stopped preaching long enough to listen to the message. There's a lot there that I think more children should learn about...especially Crafty's theory on the different types of aggression. And most certainly the extraordinarily high level of sportsmanship displayed by the Dog Brothers. As a FMAist, I'm certainly ready to stand with Crafty and the DB on their message. I think it represents the best, in ethical and moral terms, that martial arts has to offer. - -Allen ------------------------------ From: "Stephen Lamade" Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 01:29:53 Subject: eskrima: San Miguel Eskrima I am teaching a San Miguel Eskrima class on Tuesday and Saturday evenings in Whitestone, Queens, NYC. Please contact me through the San Miguel Association website (www.eskrima.com) for information about the class. Best Wishes, Steve Lamade Instructor San Miguel Eskrima _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ------------------------------ From: AnimalMac@aol.com Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 22:10:38 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #202 << points for Animal and his Wife: 3) Animal you came to me and asked me for information about why woman go back, when i offered you a place, you refused and tried to charge me money for information you were trying to get from me. Whoa...that's a radical interpretation. Why would I come to you for information? My wife is far more qualified. As are my many other resources on the subject. Of course it's your story, you tell it like you want... But you already seem to do that anyway. BTW, I love the statement that I, or my wife, threatened you. You must have a real interesting definition of what that - and many other - terms mean. Keep on posting, others are figuring that out too. Have a nice life. ------------------------------ From: "Joe Hironaka" Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 20:21:02 -0700 Subject: eskrima: FMA in Oregon Last year before I moved to Oregon, I asked for some help on finding some good instruction. I got many responses, all of which were lost in the move.So if anybody knows of good instructors, or just anyone who would like to work out together in or around the Albany area, please respond. Animal had posted something about Corvallis. Could you please send that again? Thanks, Joe Hironaka ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 23:10:11 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Dog Brothers Martial Arts Training Camp A Howl of Greeting to All: There is now some more concrete information on our website concerning the First Annual Dog Brothers Martial Arts Training Camp, including a list of guest instructors and a probable schedule. Woof, Crafty Dog ------------------------------ From: "Hutchins, Jamie" Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 04:55:33 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Recommended reading A question for Marc Denny or anyone else who knows! I noticed on the DB website that you recommended the book "Memories ride the ebb of tide" by GM Giron. As I understand it this is a memoir of his experiences during WWII and of using Escrima in real combat... it sounds fascinating. In fact I believe it is recommended as essential reading for any serious martial artist! Do you or anyone else know where this is available from? Also do any other members of this list has any other recommended reading? I am most interested in FMA theory and technique but believe there is a lot to learn form historical accounts too. Currently I train in Kali, Muay Thai, Grappling and Jun Fan (but we also cover some Silat)... any suggestions welcome. Thanks Jamie ------------------------------ From: "Keith Hay" Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 02:36:19 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Filipino and other Martial Arts Training Excuse me... may I interupt? Anyone still reading/responding to this forum that is tired of the "j-ME!" or the "Dog Pound?" If so, please keep reading, otherwise please skip.... I would like to hear from anyone in the Phoenix area who is involved in any MA who can recommend a thoroughly useful and progressive self defense program that is taught here in the valley, sticks or otherwise. ...a rambling history... Off and on for the past nine years, I have trained in Kenpo, Balintawak escrima, TKD, and some kung fu. For me, my limited training in Balintawak combined with similar training in Kenpo have yielded decent results. I am confident if I had to handle myself I could. Fortunately, I have never had to find out. (Is that good or bad?) My instructor is no longer teaching. I quit my job of seven years driving trucks, a month ago... such relief. I now have the time to train and consider other styles of MA and other schools. There is a new school near me that teaches Kali. I have observed a few of his students and he even allowed me to participate in a couple of classes. I was very impressed with his and his students abilities. While this style is strikingly different than Balintawak, (no pun intended) even the instructor told me he doesn't consider Kali to be a self-defense first. It is, to him, an art first, but the defense will come. Perhaps I should step back a moment... I personally look at any martial art, that I would be interested in learning, to see how its self defense is considered. In my observations: - - While fighting is a choice, defending yourself is not. Anyone not in agreement with that? - - Tae Kwon Do is mainly a "step back and fight" style, with no discernible art other than rigid, hard style forms, and the self defense was a joke. (My opinion is based on 1 year of training under a 9th degree black belt... I couldn't stand it anymore than that) - - The style of Kung Fu I was taught, also for about a year then integrated somewhat into my Kenpo training, was mainly a soft "go with the flow" and be nice when you apply that arm lock or take down. Give your opponent a chance to be resonable before you break his arm. The forms were very low stances and based functionally on proper take downs and stances. Very effective, very fluid, but I hate forms. - - Kenpo was my main MA for most of the last nine years and I feel it is a great self defense. Even the hated forms are cool to watch. Very fluid and rigid. However, I see it as having to few options for every situation... your main option is to beat your opponent into submission with any of hundreds of optional techniques and combinations. While beatings have their place in self defense, that shouldn't be your only answer to every situation. So in that way, I find Kenpo limited. Unnecessary violence, I hope you all will agree, should be avoided. - - The Balintawak Escrima I learned was the "poor step-child" art of my instructor's studio. Kenpo was the primary art and Escrima was the secondary art. I still don't know why I stuck with it all those years when no one else did. I've taught dozens, maybe a hundred students (alongside my instructor, of course) the 10 basic strikes, defenses, and counters. Only one, that I am aware, is still doing it. Among the students in our circle, I am still regarded as the escrima guy. I would like to continue learning, but am told no one teaches Balintawak here in the "valley of the sun stroke." So, what to do... I consider Kenpo and Balintawak to be an excellent self defense combination. The escrima empty hands techniques are totally effective by themselves as are Kenpos. Once again, these are merely a regular MA guy's opinions. Nothing more. I'm no expert. Besides the techniques and the fact that each of these two MA's are relatively fluid, I am not stuck to them blindly. They were modified by us to be useful in situations that may be encountered in the USA. They were progressive. They bent and allowed other ideas. That is what I'm looking for. You may be looking for something else. Any thoughts? Thank you for your consideration. "Escrima guy" in Phoenix Arizona "pro.gres.sive / adj.: Promoting or favoring progress toward better conditions or new policies, ideas, or methods" -dictionary.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 7:23:22 PDT Subject: Re: eskrima: Recommended reading > I noticed on the DB website that you recommended the book "Memories ride the > ebb of tide" by GM Giron. As I understand it this is a memoir of his > experiences during WWII and of using Escrima in real combat... it sounds > fascinating. In fact I believe it is recommended as essential reading for > any serious martial artist! I have and have read Memories. Essential? What about it do you believe is essential for any serious martial artist? Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 7:30:00 PDT Subject: Re: eskrima: Filipino and other Martial Arts Training > - Tae Kwon Do is mainly a "step back and fight" style, with no > discernible art other than rigid, hard style forms, and the self defense > was a joke. (My opinion is based on 1 year of training under a 9th > degree black belt... I couldn't stand it anymore than that) This is where I first saw and learned the concept of flow. More of step back, forward, angle up, angle back, flow with their rhythm and fight style. Excellent self-defense, but it does take more than a year for the light to come on. Ray Terry raymail@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 7:36:21 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #203 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.