From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #219 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Tues, 8 May 2001 Vol 08 : Num 219 In this issue: eskrima: Re: Pepper spray, stun guns, and kicks (oh my) eskrima: TKD Vs Muay Thai eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #218 eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #213 eskrima: Re: GM "Cacoy" Canete Seminar eskrima: Off I Go eskrima: KGD eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Mike Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Ellner Date: Mon, 07 May 2001 23:05:31 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Pepper spray, stun guns, and kicks (oh my) Marc writes: > I have a standing bet for people who claim they can take pepperspray and not > go down. I ask them if that goes for a spray AND a kick to the nuts...not > necessarily in that order. > > Oddly enough, nobody has ever taken me up on it. I've been kicked in the nuts. Sometimes I went down. Other times I didn't. I've been pepper sprayed several times and have never been incapacitated by it. Never experienced the combination. It sounds like an experience to be avoided. A better test might be. You get spotted the kick in the nuts and the pepper spray. He gets a big curved knife and the promise of $50 each time he makes a hole in you. Would you be as confident then? Or *shudder* your confederate has the test subject's three year old daughter and a broken Coke bottle. He'll rape her with it if he or she doesn't kill both of you. Would you even want to be in the same county? That's the key, of course. Motivation. Goal-orientation. What's at stake. However you want to say it. Just bragging rights probably aren't enough for most people. > It all kinds of boils down to a very common misconception. Basically NO ONE > tool is guaranteed to do the job. If you rely on one thing to do everything > for you, you are going to be really, REALLY disappointed. > > This is especially true when you realize that a "known" type of pain can be > resisted. For example, someone who is accustomed to being hit, can and will > take blows without batting an eye, much less slow down...or worse, you hit > him and he gets more pissed. > > However, against an unexpected and different kind of pain you can easily > catch someone's attention. That same person who can shake off an impact will > often be stunned against a dragon swat (a palm strike, where the fingers dig > in and then squeeze/crush). When combined with moves that induce other kinds > of pain, it is hard to ignore a "known" pain, which brings back its original > effectiveness. > > Unfortunately, if you are overly reliant on one system, you can not react > fast enough and shift gears if that proves to be ineffective against your > opponent. That's why I advocate offering a buffet of pain. Not just one kind. > That I have found has a far better track record than relying on only one > thing. The known pain is a very good point. So, again, is the other guy's state of mind, motivation, and willingness to get hurt. ------------------------------ From: Ed Lam Date: Mon, 7 May 2001 23:20:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: eskrima: TKD Vs Muay Thai <> That is precisely it. The conditioning of the Muay Thai fighters were superior, during that time. Further, as Ray pointed out, the TKDers were probably NOT conditioned or trained for the leg kicks or elbows. Again, none of this takes away from my original point, that good Olympic TKDers are superior kickers. I NEVER said that these same TKDers are better in the kickboxing / Muay Thai arena. Ed __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------ From: Seraksatu@aol.com Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 02:39:35 EDT Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #218 Selamat Mr. S.H.Wee. Yes, by all means I do agree that in the RING for sport the Muay Thai boxer is Tough and unrelenting fighter, and yes without a question. The Ring, but fail to agree in the combative matter. Any one playing a other mans game should learn the hard lesson of loosing. Always remember for those who do practice the different arts and go in to a ring. That Sir is a game of Attrition, and most likely the Muay Tai has trained harder. Always do remember, Silat without the Blade is no Silat. In our Training, it is the blade that is trained, and the musle memory responds is the blade first. It is a weapon based art, and not a hand to hand. Same as the Kali or Escrima, weapons first, then the hand to hand. Or Kuntao without the blade is no Kuntao. So to say that Muay Tai is the Best for Combat I have to disagree. Silat Practice the Blade longer then the Muay Tai, does it mean that the Silat Fighter is better then the Muay Tai. Of course not, Seen a lot of Open Blade tournaments on Java. 1948-1954 Silat, specially the Madurians were winners, not to many survived the first round. Including Muay Tai and others. Rules who got cut cut first won. So, does it mean the Madurians are the best, well in the area they are, yes. In turn in the ring for a sport with Rules, No. Again, do not fight the other mans game you may learn a hard lesson. Do not come empty to a blade fight, one may regret that. So every martial arts is great, and have the finer points in what it stands for. The open blade makes the battle one sided. Rome showed their power of the trained blade long ago, or the samurai. Hormat Saya Pak Victor de Thouars > I agree with you, TKD masters do kick faster than Muay Thai boxers. I do not > know about the standard of TKD in US, but back in the 70's, there used to be > a lot of tournaments between Muay Thai boxers and the rest of the martial > arts in my country. We have top masters of Silat, Karate, Kung Fu and TKD > from Hong Kong, Korea and Japan trying their skill against Muay Thai boxers. > To the best of my knowledge, none of them survived more than three rounds!. ------------------------------ From: "Martin Diggins" Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 08:31:12 +0100 Subject: eskrima: RE: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #213 Re: Joints strengthening Many thanks to all those who took the time to reply to my joint strengthening query. Regards, Martin ------------------------------ From: SCARBRM@Nationwide.com Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 08:42:29 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: GM "Cacoy" Canete Seminar This past Saturday I attended GM Cacoy's escrima seminar at the Asian Fighting Arts school in Dayton and it was awesome! GM Cacoy is 81, but you would never know it the way he moves. His seminar information was great, and he presented it at a good pace that let attendees get through a lot of material. What really struck me though, is how down to earth and what a good a teacher GM Cacoy is. You can really tell he enjoys what he does. I also wanted to thank Guru Ken for hosting this seminar. Guru Ken has a very nice school and he and his students were all very friendly and helpful throughout the seminar. I was very impressed with the Asian Fighting Arts school. If you get a chance to attend a seminar with GM Cacoy or work out with Guru Ken or his students, then be sure to take advantage of it! Thanks. - -Mike Scarbrough ------------------------------ From: "Roaring Girl" Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 10:00:39 -0230 Subject: eskrima: Off I Go Hi all, I've got to un-sub for a while, as I'm going off to the wilds of North Ontario to plant trees and get eaten by bugs. I'll bring my sticks, just in case they're as big as people keep telling me :D I'm going to miss all sorts of discussions on this and other lists...:( anyway, play nice, learn, have fun, share. I'll be back to learn more in the fall. Thanks Ray, everyone. :) jocelyne ------------------------------ From: kalkiusa@netscape.net Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 09:58:42 -0400 Subject: eskrima: KGD > I don't know that the story is accurate, but assuming it is, I trust the Korean source. For once, someone not asserting that their "art" was superior to everything else on the planet. > the muay Thai players were probably just up against TKD players > that were not conditioned to taking leg kicks. Makes sense. Sport TKD would also lack response to the overhead elbow. My intro to leg kicks came in kung fu training. First one was a stomp-like kick to the shin ... direct frontal attack ... like "sipat" but a straight line at a dowbward angle. An unexpected variant was kicking the rear leg instead of the front standing toe-to-toe, right lead to left lead. > That is not a typical part of sport TKD > training & conditioning. Yeah, I know ... my very first teacher was Jhoon Rhee, circa 1967. Kung fu taught me to take any target of opportunity. A former student/training partner asked about San Shou recently and we discussed the Muay Thai/San Shou issues I mentioned here recently (elbows vs. throws). My take on it all is to use what integrates well, forget style. So, I'd use both the elbow and the throws ... and leg kick can be seen as a variation of sweep ... in fact, I include sweeps and reaps in kicking, the underlying mechanics, -coordination- and -flow- being the same. Depending on level of application (high, low) they are same. Mitakeyu Oyasin. Be well, Mik __________________________________________________________________ Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/ ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Tue, 08 May 2001 8:29:46 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #219 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.