From: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com To: eskrima-digest@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Subject: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #225 Reply-To: eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Errors-To: eskrima-digest-owner@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com Precedence: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest Fri, 11 May 2001 Vol 08 : Num 225 In this issue: eskrima: GM Conrad Manaois Seminar eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #222 eskrima: Rambling Ruminations eskrima: Combat Arnis - What exactly is it? eskrima: Mime-Version: 1.0 eskrima: Re: dear Jay..... Ms J's answer eskrima: . ========================================================================== Eskrima-Digest, serving the Internet since June 1994. 1300 members strong! Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and Martial Arts Resource The premier internet discussion forum devoted to Filipino Martial Arts. Provided in memory of Mangisursuro Michael G. Inay (1944-2000), Founder of the Inayan System of Eskrima. Replying to this message will NOT unsubscribe you. To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe eskrima-digest" (no quotes) in the body (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. To send e-mail to this list use eskrima@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com See the Filipino Martial Arts (FMA) FAQ and the online search engine for back issues of the Eskrima-Digest at http://www.MartialArtsResource.com Mabuhay ang eskrima! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ARNISTE@aol.com Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 16:47:32 EDT Subject: eskrima: GM Conrad Manaois Seminar Meownews to all, Upcoming Manaois Systems International(MSI) will be May 20th,20001 Sunday at 10am-3pm(1 hr. lunch)hosted by CATSociety in Long Beach,CA. pls. go to: catsociety.freeservers.com for more info. The NAAKESC Rated Stick Fight will be June 17th,2001 Sunday Sign up on the day is allowed,just be early for weigh-in. Nelson"PinoyKowboy"Trinidad Combat Arnis Tabak Society ------------------------------ From: FGS & KVF Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 14:47:50 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Re: Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #222 > From: "Johnaleen" > Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 14:45:09 -0400 > Subject: eskrima: Re: FMA teaching Question? Hubud > > I have an FMA Question...........:) > > its really for those of you that either teach or have been taught the > concepts of either empty hand or stick applications of the Hubud.. if you > dont teach it or have learned it then the question will not apply... i > really am trying to make 2 selective questions... > > 1) when did you start training in the concepts and applications of Hubud? > i.e. was it first off with your instructor or did your teacher wait for a > few months? > My instructor started everyone off with Hubud drill with sticks and empty hand around 2 months into training, altho later (3 years) he seems to start them off earlier with both. > > 2) as a teacher that teaches the concept, when do you introduce it into your > teaching format of FMA? It depends on the level of skill of the student. those who have prior exposure to Arnis, I start off within the first month, for those who have no experience or are having problems understanding basics, I wait a couple months. Spunky > _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------ From: "Marc Denny" Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 14:51:23 -0700 Subject: eskrima: Rambling Ruminations A Howl of Greeting to All: Richard wrote: > I also used to do this type of training. When I started Muay Thai in 82 I > had a sparring partner who was always just that little bit better than I > was, you know his timing, fitness etc. We used to shin kick the hard thai > bags, poles with carpet wrapped around them, sandbags and also tractor tires > dug in to the ground. In 1985 my friend died of bone cancer, which as I > understand, started in the legs............. > > I have posted this before and people have said, well there is no prove that > the impact training did the damaged or is linked to this type of cancer, > however I really think that is what happened. This is an interesting point here, and perhaps one elusive of resolution. I have seen things in life that make Richard's interpretation an eminently plausible one and have made similar interpretations myself of similar orders of events. But the point does not necessarily conclude there. There is the matter of how the training is done. Forgive me for the generalization, but the young males typical of competitive Muay Thai tend to be in a semi-permanent state testosterone frenzy when it comes to their training. Phrases such as: "PAIN FOR GAIN", "PAIN IS WEAKNESS LEAVING THE BODY", "PAIN IS ONLY INFORMATION" and "MORE" typify the mindset. Deep conditioning takes a deep amount of time, and an approach aware of the interaction with the life force. Indeed many Chinese iron palm methods call for celibacy-- which ruled IP out for me! But to use a specific example, Surf Dog for many years has done some of the forearm to forearm banging training and includes it in his serious students' training. No big deal, no "hardcoring" it, just a regular, easygoing thing. Coincidentally enough, the only time I have ever seen a rattan stick break in half as if it were a piece of wood was when it hit one of his students in the forearm. (He's the middle aged guy showing off some forearm bruises in the intro to either "DB Gathering" or "7 Ranges" BTW) > Its up to you how far you go, I tell (ask) my students just to kick thai > pads etc. They do point out that stick sparring with no gloves on, probably > is not doing my hands any good. Only if you're getting hit. :-) The interaction of gear and behavior is a complex one. I have read that there are more accidents during good weather than bad because people drive more safely when the weather is bad. Similar I have heard some drunken rugby players (is there any other kind?) suggest that American football players have more serious injuries because of all the protection that they wear (and, it was alleged, because they are all a bunch of blooming kitties). I too was drunk at the time so don't hold me to the details , , , In my case I have a partially shattered 4th knuckle in my right hand from a shot of Eric's at the Rumble at Ramblas and I, like most of us at that point (Spring 1989) was wearing a hockey glove. Pain is a wonderful motivator and lesser gear may yield sounder behavior and greater gear may sometimes have the odds catch up with it. Allthough small bones may break more easily, they heal relatively quickly and usually properly. At most Gatherings we have more than one broken hand. I suspect though that nerve damage is a greater issue. In DB#2 some of you may remember a knee shot that caused its recipient to go bounding away. As a recently retired USN Seal the man had well above average mental and physical toughness, but 6 months later he was still complaining about the pain and wondering if it would be with him for life. Most of us have experience with sustained nerve pain. (Nerve pain can also be pretty debilitating at the moment too. There's some great footage of Eric writhing on the ground for several minutes at one of the many Santa Fe sessions from a Salty hand shot.) The best answer is to respect that hand shot and not get hit. > I really like the way Crafty Dog put it at a > seminar. I don't know where he got in from or if he came up with it by > himself but he divides a martial artists life up into three areas, young > man/student, middle age man/teacher and finally the goal which is like Guro > Dan or Dr Gyi, where you are not middle aged any more but you are still able > to function and enjoy your training. I think that's right, if not > hopefully Crafty will step in. That's it. The young man seeks his place in the tribe and his mate, he mates, he grandfathers. He fights, he trains +/or teaches, he dances. Although I already had the three stages artuclaiton befor I met Dr. Gyi, one of the many reasons that he resonated with me is that I saw him as deep in his understanding of these things. When he spoke of Bando's "Hurting, Healing, Harmonizing" I felt a sense of recognition. First we learn to hurt (the young man), then we learn to heal the injuries incurred (the middle-aged man) and finally we learn to harmonize the world around us (the old man). > , , , , , > Often the Dog Brothers are criticised for their hard fighting approach and > the resulting injuries. I have noticed that they have some secret stuff like > the Bando staff training which has helped my shoulder injury a lot and also > the yoga type exercises from Brazilian Jujitsu, which I notice Roger > Machardo will be teaching at their camp. Well worth looking into. Dr. Gyi has spoken to me about this matter of "The 3 H's" and the important to a warrior of first being able to heal himself, then others-- this concept is very much a part of the concept of Dog Brothers Martial Arts. Of course my vision for DBMA includes "how to hurt". It also includes "how to train" so that one if fit and healthy. Roger's Yoga-Jitsu is some phenomenal stuff-- not only does it put your body right (Guro Dan calls this training of his "a fountain of youth")) but it also teaches you to move on the ground and your grappling grows. And if one lives with passion, then "how to heal" oneself of the dings from life (which includes a good stickfight) is vital too. It is no accident that I have asked Dr. Gyi to teach the Dhanda Yoga Staff for the final section of the last day of our Training Camp-- directly after the fighting. And with the ability to hurt and to heal as a foundation, the door is opened for harmonization. > Regards > > Richard Killick. Woof, Guro Crafty ------------------------------ From: Hinnerk Ebert Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 23:50:06 +0300 Subject: eskrima: Combat Arnis - What exactly is it? Hi, the time has come - I would like to introduce myself :-) I am a 23 year old student from Freiburg, Germany and have been studying combat arnis for about two years now (with not-so-short breaks in between). In the last few months, I started to investigate the world of MA also via internet and usenet. I tried to learn as much background info as possible and became sensitive to the large amount of frauds and bragging (high-level dans in 250 different styles and so on...) in MA. This made me look up the style I am training in, and I didn't find enough info to be satisfied. For all I know I have been practising combat arnis. My teacher is Mr. H.-D. Rauscher, a very likeable man in his mid-fifties (I think). Although there is no doubt that I can learn A LOT from him for the next 150 years :-), I have difficulty finding info about combat arnis. A google search pops up the name Cui Brocka, a man sometimes mentioned by Mr. Rauscher. He (Rauscher) recounted a few stories about him a few times about doing research work with C.B. and also assisting him in writing a book about arnis that made it to the library of congress (? - 23 years old and a memory like one of those things, you know... :-) ). I would appreciate any info about combat arnis, Cui Brocka and Mr. Rauscher, as well as info on their relationship, the pros and cons of combat arnis etc. Another thing that startled me is the fact that I was unable to find _any_ information about the organization printed on our grade shirts, which have 'Combat Arnis WUMA international' on them. I know that Mr. Rauscher is well known in the IMAF organization, but they only cover japanese arts... Does anyone know the WUMA? Please note that I do not intend to badmouth anyone, I am merely seeking information. If I sounded offensive, that's due to language problems (please let me know, so I can fix it). Hinnerk Ebert ------------------------------ From: Luis Pellicer III Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 09:27:03 +0800 Subject: eskrima: Mime-Version: 1.0 >Amen cousin. My most recent Korean instructor was the first person to speak of the various martial "ways" as a circle. Too often people think of them in a linear way ... hard/soft, internal/external, grappling/striking, etc. We have natural attributes which we can use in fighting. We have (hopefully) active intelligence to devise ways to exploit those natural attributes ... and imagination to vary and find new and hopefully better ways. It's inevitable to find similarities since we all work with the same natural attributes, characteristic ranges of motion, possibilities in coordination, etc. > >After years of spinning and jumping, etc. (Northern Shaolin/Tae Kwon Do) I decided to focus on the cross kick (that one that's similar to Ji Han Jae's #1), low roundhouse, and low sidekick. One has to keep the intricate/gymnastic maneuvers honed to use them well in fighting (like a pushbutton automatic, you know what I mean :-) I might have knocked someone out with spinning or jump-spinning hook kick 20 years ago, but in Close Quarters and almost 50 now I'd use the cross kick to break their leg instead (ref. previous post). Hey, if the leg don't break, ya just keep goin' down to the foot and stomp. Then it's knee time. Some focus on kneeing to the torso ... I focus on kneeing the legs, e.g., where we might otherwise throw the roundkick ... quickly/smoothly leads into tripping and sweeps. > >Hapkido, good stuff. That last Korean teacher that I spoke of was also Hapkido master (Kwan Jang Nim). Thinking street fight, I'd take Hapkido over TKD anyday ... for my own use that is. > >OK, rambling here ... better get back to work. > >Mitakeyu Oyasin. > Got my first black belt in a high kicking style, then got hard core into Jun Fan (what they called it then, nobody in the group called it Jeet Kune Do. AH, the days of garage anonymity!) which stressed the opposite. All else being equal, better balance was maintained kicking low, but if anyone thought the well trained high kickers were a pushover, good luck. Anyone who busts his butt to increase his practical skills will be a force to contend with, regardless of style. ------------------------------ From: "Johnaleen" Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 23:11:12 -0400 Subject: eskrima: Re: dear Jay..... Ms J's answer Dear Jay... I am sorry, I tend to put questions out there differently then most... i was not intending on asking you for an answer to a question, but as a response in reply to all of the awesome things that can be found in FMA and to show as a possibility of other healing avenues that are in the arts for others.. as far as victims, that's why i put this link http://www.f-a-t-e.org/victims%20program/fatevic1.html there.. i was not suggesting that just anyone should teach a victim flat out FMA.. but with additional training and education above the core art of FMA it can be done very successfully, and taught in a way that empowers them to gain control over there past and there past trauma or abuse. done correctly it can as well help to empower domestic violence victims, helping to keep them from going back to the same relationships they left... as well as stay out of the same kind of abusive relationships in there futures.. again of course this is with other special training and it is with selective parts of each FMA worked into healing modality's suited for a Victim and there Special needs... ***Would you elaborate?** again that's what the link was for... i did not want this to become an avenue for the Program here in full discussion. so i put the link instead... and i was mainly just commenting and agreeing with the other letter about all the positive things that can be found in healing modality's via flow and FMA......:) after you READ the pages that offer the information on the program, if you still have questions and wish me to elaborate more i will gladly do so but......:) For Rays sake and EDs sake, I ask you to email me privately off the site... I dont want my simply response to take over the FMA format of ED and why i ask you to email me there instead..........:) Ms J....... try's to be good.... ------------------------------ From: Ray Terry Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 21:25:24 PDT Subject: eskrima: . ------------------------------ End of Inayan_Eskrima/FMA-Digest V8 #225 **************************************** To unsubscribe from the eskrima-digest send the command: unsubscribe eskrima-digest -or- unsubscribe eskrima-digest your.old@address in the BODY (top line, left justified) of a "plain text" e-mail addressed to majordomo@hpwsrt.cup.hp.com. Old digest issues are available via ftp://ftp.martialartsresource.com. Copyright 1994-2001: Ray Terry and the Martial Arts Resource Standard disclaimers apply.